142 réponses à ce sujet

[Memnon]

tyrvas wrote...

So the statue is the partner to the one in Ilos, and the statue (reciever) was inactive,
until it's required use by the Protheans.

Isn't that how all relay pairs are? There are plenty of dormant relays that haven't been activated because they don't want a repeat of the Rachni wars ... in fact, that was what caused the war with the Turians, us opening relays willy nilly ...

[sistersafetypin]

Doctor Moustache wrote...


You got a link or somethin brah?


I mean we can keep this up forever or you can just backup your claim with even a shred of evidense and I would believe you...

I played the game.  Nobody ever said the "art" relay was made by the Reapers.  When you ask Avina it assumes the Protheans built it and the VI on Ilos doesn't mention it. 

No I don't have a link,[See below comment] I have multiple complete playthroughs. But when you talk to Vigil he explains everything. That the Reapers were using the Citadel as a back door into the Galaxy. Soverieign himself says that Reapers created the Relays and that the Citadel was a trap. You claim to have played the game and yet you know nothing. You want proof? Replay the game. Go look up wikis, read the codex. By the time ME2 starts it's general knowledge that the Protheans didn't build the Citadel or the Relays. Do you your own damn homework instead of walking around speaking out of your ****

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 06 août 2012 - 07:23 .

[nos_astra]

Funny. I always thought the mini relay was the back door the Reapers themselves use to take the Citadel and the Protheans merely linked the Conduit on Ilos to that relay. Now that codex entry reveals that the Protheans obviously built the mini relay ... sounds contrived ... or plothole-ish to me.

Modifié par klarabella, 06 août 2012 - 07:21 .

[sistersafetypin]

Though the Protheans did not create the mass relays or the Citadel, they were still very technologically capable and scientifically curious. As well as studying developing races like humans and the hanar, they built a galaxy-wide communications network usingbeacons that transmitted information directly from mind to mind, and created data storage devices that still worked fifty thousand years later. They also developed a form of VI technology and used cryogenic preservation techniques, which could help an occupant survive a neutron bombardment, as well as advanced architectural design and intricate holographic interfaces. 

 

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Prothean#Technology  

The surviving Prothean scientists knew that rescue was unlikely. Instead, they chose to protect the races they had been studying, spared destruction due to their lack of advancement, and began working out where the Reapers had come from, and how. After decades of study, they worked out the connection between the Reapers, the Citadel, and the keepers, and discovered a way to interfere with the signal that compels the keepers to activate the Citadel relay. Using the Conduit, the Prothean scientists left Ilos, travelled to the Citadel and altered this signal. Their intention was to prevent the Reapers from opening the Citadel relay again, and trap them in dark space, but they had no way to be certain their plan had succeeded. The fate of these Prothean scientists is unknown. As the Conduit portal only links one way and there was no food or water left on the Citadel, Vigil hypothesized they eventually starved to death. 

For those who didn't pay any attention during the first game, and those who most likely never played it.

[wiccame]

Didn't Vigil say the reapers used it to get onto the citadel in their cycle, that the keepers were there to stop anyone from finding out the truth. Makes sense then that it was the reapers that built it and the protheans knew nothing of it.

[phagus]

sistersafetypin wrote...

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">Though the Protheans did not create the mass relays or the Citadel, they were still very technologically capable and scientifically curious. As well as studying developing races like humans and the hanar, they built a galaxy-wide communications network usingbeacons ] technology and used cryogenic preservation techniques, which could help an occupant survive a neutron bombardment, as well as advanced architectural design and intricate holographic interfaces.[/color] 

 

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Prothean#Technology  

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">The surviving Prothean scientists knew that rescue was unlikely. Instead, they chose to protect the races they had been studying, spared destruction due to their lack of advancement, and began working out where the Reapers had come from, and how. After decades of study, they worked out the connection between the Reapers, the Citadel, and the ], and discovered a way to interfere with the signal that compels the keepers to activate the Citadel relay. Using the Conduit, the Prothean scientists left Ilos, travelled to the Citadel and altered this signal. Their intention was to prevent the Reapers from opening the Citadel relay again, and trap them in dark space, but they had no way to be certain their plan had succeeded. The fate of these Prothean scientists is unknown. As the Conduit portal only links one way and there was no food or water left on the Citadel, Vigil hypothesized they eventually starved to death.[/color] 

For those who didn't pay any attention during the first game, and those who most likely never played it.

Sorry perhaps I'm not paying attention but the Conduit on Ilos and the Relay Monument are a pair, they form the Conduit. So who built the one on Ilos and who built the Relay Monument on the Citadel?

[Memnon]

The part that always bothered me was the "trapped in darkspace" claim. Having it so the Reapers could just saunter over throughout the course of a few years really minimizes the accomplishments of ME1. It also makes them seem really freaking lazy

[robertthebard]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The citadel is a mass relay hub-a mass relay itself. The protheans built a miniature relay on Ilos not on the citadel. The relay on Ilos connected to the Citadel and it was a prototype they were using to figure out relay tech. The receiving relay is the piece of "relay art" that is on the Citadel.  The reapers built the one on the citadel, not the protheans. 

someone talking sense at last

here is your answer

When the hell does anyone ever say that?

And when the hell does anyone ever say the protheans put it there? I always assumed it was common knowledge the Citadel is a Mass Relay itself (seeing how it is downright stated in the game), and it makes sense to believe the relay on the Citadel is the one the Reapers use to get to the Milky Way. Sure speculation, but far away from being a plothole.

Um.. so the Reapers warp inside the Persidium?

Doh. 


Its a pretty easy safe logical assumption that the entire citadel is a relay but the conduit reciever is a mini relay inside it that can only transport smaller things, you know like exactly what it does in the game. 

Its never specificly said who built it, but its easy to assume the Protheans did since all relays are tied in pairs and the sender relay was deffenitly prothean construction, assuming the reciever is also prothean construction is a very easy one to make at least sans the single fact that the Reapers didn't get rid of it.  But then if the Reapers actually built it then it just creates even more mysteries.  If its Reaper, then it must have a reaper built companion relay.  If it did, then why wouldn't Soverign just use that instead of going through the trouble of finding the Protheans?  Why was it made in the first place when Reapers can't even fit in there? 

This is actually the easiest conundrum to solve.  The relay could indeed be Reaper tech, set there from the beginning of the Citadel, and it could indeed be the receiving end of the Dark Space relay.  Remember, drift of 1500 kilometers is common on a relay jump.  However, the Collectors can jump into a "clear zone" in the galactic core.  Note that this is the first time I've ever even seen this actually used in a discussion, but the Reaper IFF codes for that relay could set them inside the Citadel, but outside the Presidium.

[phagus]

Here we go from the wiki "However, the damaged VI on Ilos, Vigil, fills in the gaps. The Conduit is a miniature mass relay which the Prothean researchers on Ilos built as a prototype during their experiments into mass relay technology. It is essentially a 'back door' onto the Citadel, which is the hub of the relay network. It has no connection to the rest of the network, making it independent. The 'receiving' relay on the Citadel was mistaken for a piece of Prothean art, the Relay Monument, and was never removed by the Council."

So the Protheans built the sender part of the Conduit. Who built the Relay Monument reciever bit?

Also there are 3 Relays to consider to avoid confusion. The Citadel Relay that links to Dark Space that the Reapers use as part of their trap. The Relay in the system the Citadel is in which links to the rest of the relay network. And of course both parts of the Conduit.

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...


You got a link or somethin brah?


I mean we can keep this up forever or you can just backup your claim with even a shred of evidense and I would believe you...

I played the game.  Nobody ever said the "art" relay was made by the Reapers.  When you ask Avina it assumes the Protheans built it and the VI on Ilos doesn't mention it. 

No I don't have a link,[See below comment] I have multiple complete playthroughs. But when you talk to Vigil he explains everything. That the Reapers were using the Citadel as a back door into the Galaxy. Soverieign himself says that Reapers created the Relays and that the Citadel was a trap. You claim to have played the game and yet you know nothing. You want proof? Replay the game. Go look up wikis, read the codex. By the time ME2 starts it's general knowledge that the Protheans didn't build the Citadel or the Relays. Do you your own damn homework instead of walking around speaking out of your ****

You ****ting me dude?

I never said the Protheans built the citadel or the relays.  I said they probably built the conduit reciever, its not known for sure but its implied and no direct evidense contradicts it.  Thats what this enitre conversation has been about. 

[Doctoglethorpe]

robertthebard wrote...


This is actually the easiest conundrum to solve.  The relay could indeed be Reaper tech, set there from the beginning of the Citadel, and it could indeed be the receiving end of the Dark Space relay.  Remember, drift of 1500 kilometers is common on a relay jump.  However, the Collectors can jump into a "clear zone" in the galactic core.  Note that this is the first time I've ever even seen this actually used in a discussion, but the Reaper IFF codes for that relay could set them inside the Citadel, but outside the Presidium.

But now your just wildly speculating that the conduit knows the difference when small things want to be on the persidium and big things want to be in space outside.  Theres no implications or evidense pointing to that at all.  All implications point of the mini-relay being built by the protheans specifically as the recieving relay of the conduit line.  Again its all just implications its never spicified, but its better then near baseless speculation. 

(and please excuse all the spelling errors i'm making in this thread, i've been awake for 30 hours. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 06 août 2012 - 08:18 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

and those who most likely never played it.

Its funny how you make snide comments while arguing the wrong point of a conversation.  Makes you look like a dumb penis. 

[robertthebard]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

robertthebard wrote...


This is actually the easiest conundrum to solve.  The relay could indeed be Reaper tech, set there from the beginning of the Citadel, and it could indeed be the receiving end of the Dark Space relay.  Remember, drift of 1500 kilometers is common on a relay jump.  However, the Collectors can jump into a "clear zone" in the galactic core.  Note that this is the first time I've ever even seen this actually used in a discussion, but the Reaper IFF codes for that relay could set them inside the Citadel, but outside the Presidium.

But now your just wildly speculating that the conduit knows the difference when small things want to be on the persidium and big things want to be in space outside.  Theres no implications or evidense pointing to that at all.  All implications point of the mini-relay being built by the protheans specifically as the recieving relay of the conduit line.  Again its all just implications its never spicified, but its better then near baseless speculation. 

(and please excuse all the spelling errors i'm making in this thread, i've been awake for 30 hours. 

Nope, no wild speculation required at all.  The Protheans used the existing exit relay in the Citadel, with their own protocols.  The same way we use the mass relays everywhere else.  The reapers have more control over their tech than we do, no speculation required.  The relay gets one signal from Prothean tech, and does one thing, it gets another signal from Reaper tech, and does something else, even though it's basically the same function, it's just a matter of where objects come out.

[Samtheman63]

if the reapers had everything their own way the keepers (soveriegn post sabotage) would open the arms, so there would be no reason why the monument wouldnt be the relay the reapers use as there would be a massive open space

Modifié par Samtheman63, 06 août 2012 - 08:25 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

robertthebard wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

robertthebard wrote...


This is actually the easiest conundrum to solve.  The relay could indeed be Reaper tech, set there from the beginning of the Citadel, and it could indeed be the receiving end of the Dark Space relay.  Remember, drift of 1500 kilometers is common on a relay jump.  However, the Collectors can jump into a "clear zone" in the galactic core.  Note that this is the first time I've ever even seen this actually used in a discussion, but the Reaper IFF codes for that relay could set them inside the Citadel, but outside the Presidium.

But now your just wildly speculating that the conduit knows the difference when small things want to be on the persidium and big things want to be in space outside.  Theres no implications or evidense pointing to that at all.  All implications point of the mini-relay being built by the protheans specifically as the recieving relay of the conduit line.  Again its all just implications its never spicified, but its better then near baseless speculation. 

(and please excuse all the spelling errors i'm making in this thread, i've been awake for 30 hours. 

Nope, no wild speculation required at all.  The Protheans used the existing exit relay in the Citadel, with their own protocols.  The same way we use the mass relays everywhere else.  The reapers have more control over their tech than we do, no speculation required.  The relay gets one signal from Prothean tech, and does one thing, it gets another signal from Reaper tech, and does something else, even though it's basically the same function, it's just a matter of where objects come out.

But its never implied or stated that thats how it worked even remotely.  Thus its wild speculation. 

[sistersafetypin]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

and those who most likely never played it.

Its funny how you make snide comments while arguing the wrong point of a conversation.  Makes you look like a dumb penis. 

I'm not arguing from the wrong position. I'm arguing against people so convinced their variations of wrong are right, that they're unwilling to see beyond that. You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Instead of accepting that, you keep going on about whatever a__pool you are talking about. And frankly, I'm tired of repeating myself. Facts don't lie. Replay the games and pay attention or don't. I could care less

It's not wild speculation that the Protheans created the conduit specifically to access the Citadel. It's not speculation that the Reapers created and used the relay "art" instalation as a gateway from dark space.

It is speculation that relays are all pairs that only go one way however.  

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 06 août 2012 - 08:38 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

and those who most likely never played it.

Its funny how you make snide comments while arguing the wrong point of a conversation.  Makes you look like a dumb penis. 

I'm not arguing from the wrong position. I'm arguing against people so convinced their variations of wrong are right, that they're unwilling to see beyond that. You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Instead of excepting that, you keep going on about whatever a__pool you you both are talking about. And frankly, I'm tired of repeating myself. Facts don't lie. Replay the gamed and pay attention or don't. I could care less

I'm starting to think your trolling.  Gonna try this one last time...

I did not say nor ask for proof that the Protheans created the Citadel or the Relays.  Go back and read my posts if you don't believe me. 

The conduit reciever is a completely seperate matter.  That is what this thread is about and that is the only thing I've been talking about.  You obviously failed to realize that and are continuing to. 

You just gave me proof of a different subject that I never disagreed with you about.  I know the Reapers built the bloody citadel dude, come on. 

Sorry for my bluntness but stop being an idiot. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 06 août 2012 - 08:39 .

[sistersafetypin]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

and those who most likely never played it.

Its funny how you make snide comments while arguing the wrong point of a conversation.  Makes you look like a dumb penis. 

I'm not arguing from the wrong position. I'm arguing against people so convinced their variations of wrong are right, that they're unwilling to see beyond that. You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Instead of excepting that, you keep going on about whatever a__pool you you both are talking about. And frankly, I'm tired of repeating myself. Facts don't lie. Replay the gamed and pay attention or don't. I could care less

I'm starting to think your trolling.  Gonna try this one last time...

I did not say nor ask for proof that the Protheans created the Citadel or the Relays.  Go back and read my posts if you don't believe me. 

The conduit reciever is a completely seperate matter.  That is what this thread is about and that is the only thing I've been talking about.  You obviously failed to realize that and are continuing to. 

Sorry for my bluntness but stop being an idiot. 

Seriously? I wasn't giving proof that the Protheans did or did not create the Relays. I WAS GIVING PROOF THAT THE CONDUIT WAS CREATED SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE TO ENTER THE CITADEL AND STOP THE REAPERS FROM USING THE RELAY AGAIN.

Did the caps help? And yes you did question whether the Protheans created the "art" relay on the citadel. And what it's use was for. And that was what my original comment was in reguard. However in every reply you have mentioned some random subtopic to the main post. That either makes you an idiot or dumba_s to simple to put even the most basic things together to form a complete thought. 

But sure. Call me a troll and go back to your "plotholes"

Sorry for my bluntness but you're an idiot

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

It's not wild speculation that the Protheans created the conduit specifically to access the Citadel. It's not speculation that the Reapers created and used the relay "art" instalation as a gateway from dark space.

And yes it is.

Its never said that they do that.  In fact in the game they say "the citadel is a giant mass relay to dark space" paraphrasing.  They don't say "there is a miniature relay on the citadel linked to dark space" or any extent of that implication. 

Could it be true?  Yes.  Not saying its impossible.  I'm just saying its only ever implied to be the other way around.  Grasping at unimplied possibilities is a form of speculation.  I could go on a limb and say theres a second citadel out in deep space that links with the known one.  Its never implied but its possible and somewhat logical.  But that is nothing more then speculation until its at the very least implied to be true in which case it becomes narrator trust. 

[AlanC9]

robertthebard wrote...
This is actually the easiest conundrum to solve.  The relay could indeed be Reaper tech, set there from the beginning of the Citadel, and it could indeed be the receiving end of the Dark Space relay.  Remember, drift of 1500 kilometers is common on a relay jump.  However, the Collectors can jump into a "clear zone" in the galactic core.  Note that this is the first time I've ever even seen this actually used in a discussion, but the Reaper IFF codes for that relay could set them inside the Citadel, but outside the Presidium.

The big conceptual problem that I have with that is the size of the thing. It's nothing like the size of the deep space relays. As a small-scale prothean copy it makes sense. As the primary Reaper gateway from Dark Space it doesn't.

Of course, you can headcanon that it's an alternative gateway for the Reapers to get ground troops onto the Citadel.

[Doctoglethorpe]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

and those who most likely never played it.

Its funny how you make snide comments while arguing the wrong point of a conversation.  Makes you look like a dumb penis. 

I'm not arguing from the wrong position. I'm arguing against people so convinced their variations of wrong are right, that they're unwilling to see beyond that. You asked for proof and I gave it to you. Instead of excepting that, you keep going on about whatever a__pool you you both are talking about. And frankly, I'm tired of repeating myself. Facts don't lie. Replay the gamed and pay attention or don't. I could care less

I'm starting to think your trolling.  Gonna try this one last time...

I did not say nor ask for proof that the Protheans created the Citadel or the Relays.  Go back and read my posts if you don't believe me. 

The conduit reciever is a completely seperate matter.  That is what this thread is about and that is the only thing I've been talking about.  You obviously failed to realize that and are continuing to. 

Sorry for my bluntness but stop being an idiot. 

Seriously? I wasn't giving proof that the Protheans did or did not create the Relays. I WAS GIVING PROOF THAT THE CONDUIT WAS CREATED SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE TO ENTER THE CITADEL AND STOP THE REAPERS FROM USING THE RELAY AGAIN.

Did the caps help? And yes you did question whether the Protheans created the "art" relay on the citadel. And what it's use was for. And that was what my original comment was in reguard. However in every reply you have mentioned some random subtopic to the main post. That either makes you an idiot or dumba_s to simple to put even the most basic things together to form a complete thought. 

But sure. Call me a troll and go back to your "plotholes"

Sorry for my bluntness but you're an idiot

Yeah?

sistersafetypin wrote...

You want proof? Replay the game. Go look up wikis, read the codex. By the time ME2 starts it's general knowledge that the Protheans didn't build the Citadel or the Relays. Do you your own damn homework instead of walking around speaking out of your ****

Right. 


The single topic I have been disgussing this entire thread is the question who built the conduit reciever.  Was it there already or did the Protheans build it specificly for their conduit?  That is what I asked proof for.  You have given me proof that the Reapers build everythign else, but not that.  Now you cant even decide what your telling me you've proven. 

This is obviously going nowhere.

[AlanC9]

Vigil's speech actually says that the Conduit is the device on Ilos, and that it links to the Citadel. If the protheans built both ends of the thing, this would be an odd way to phrase it; it'd be much more natural to say that the "Conduit" means both devices together, just as a bridge is the entire roadway from one side of the river to the other.

[Doctoglethorpe]

I don't see how that wording implies the "art" receiver isn't a specific pair.


And really, think about it.  Relays are big for a reason, they need huge mass effect cores to slingshot large objects that far and fast.  One intended to reach an undiscribed distance out in dark space and transport reaper armadas may even need to be bigger (certainly not smaller).  So why would the one that worked that function end up being a teeny tiny version?  (The one on the citadel is like the size of a transport shuttle, compare that to the size of the normandy compared to the size of a normal relay)  Doesn't make much sense does it. 

Also, its said to be incabale of sending things out, only recieving.  Its said to only be a backdoor onto the citadel, not the front door.  But the Reapers are said to receed back through the citadel relay when they are done reapin.  Theres a big fat hole in the theory.  They can't use that little reciever to go back to dark space.  As ambiguous as everything else, that fact is stated quite clearly. 

It makes far more sense to be a specific companion to another smaller relay, probably the conduit. 



Now, maybe.. MAYBE.. The reapers did build it and had their own little conduit somewhere that they intended as a failsafe if the primary relay became defunct, but the same block that stopped the primary relay also blocked them getting an agent in through the backdoor relay.  So they had to find the Prothean conduit that basically stole that ability from them.  That is a possibility, but again pure speculation as its never even remotely implied. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 06 août 2012 - 09:17 .

[phagus]

Samtheman63 wrote...

if the reapers had everything their own way the keepers (soveriegn post sabotage) would open the arms, so there would be no reason why the monument wouldnt be the relay the reapers use as there would be a massive open space

I remember thinking just that when I first played ME1. But the Relay Monument being the Citadel Relay that the Reapers use stretches suspension of disbelief to breaking point for me at least. A normal relay is big and has a massive core. The Relay Monument can barley handle a Mako in size. I really was hoping that the Citadel itself was the relay not the tiny monument. I haven't found anywhere in game that states that the Relay Monument and the Citadel Relay are one and the same. Oh well more speculation...

[legion999]

It was there from before the Reaper invasion.