278 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

JSlither wrote...
The supplies I speak of are mostly lyrium shipments. The mages can go shopping just like the mundanes to get what they need. The Templars cannot. The mages can destroy these lyrium shipments at no cost to themselves. Only the Templars will suffer from that. Why do you believe that the mages must steal in order to get anything? You can't tell if someone is a mage just by looking at them. They can go grocery shopping without any one being the wiser.

Sneaky and subtle tactics can be used by both sides.

Mages must eat too right? Station non-uniformed templars in markeplaces and food stores.

Also, the populace doesn't like mages. As soon as a mage gets into the open - and if he wants ot use magic to fight templars that is inevitable - he's done for.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
I find the whole "power corrupts" irrelevant . Social , cultural and political factors are far more important then just power.

And all of those factors are affected by power... ESPECIALLY mind-controlling pwoer.

[Urzon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And locking mages up IS adaptation.

Not really...

That is like saying, "We adapted to the 120 degree heat of the desert by buying an air conditioner." You aren't adjusting to the circumstances of the area. You are just removing it or yourself from the equaltion all together, which doesn't work in the long run.

A/Cs break down...

Mages rebel...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Urzon wrote...
A mage being angry or scared doesn't mean they can instantly snap and turn into an abomination. For a demon to get a chance to possess a mage, they either need to be in the Fade (meet when the mage in asleep), or the demon needs to be in the physical realm (either sundered from the Fade or possessing something else already).

That means unless a mage already has a deal or connection with a demon already, they just can't suddenly mutate into an abomination, and they procede to go on the rampage when they stub their toe or something threatening comes their way.

While I agree that abominations are a major threat to the people of Thedas, I don't agree that all mages have a chance to spontaneously abominate if they are having a bad day, or even if there is a threat on their life.

Any time a mage casts a spell, he draws energy from the Fade - he does have a conenction.
So a mage CAN turn at almsot any time. The chances are low most of the time, true, but it's still there.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Urzon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And locking mages up IS adaptation.

Not really...

That is like saying, "We adapted to the 120 degree heat of the desert by buying an air conditioner." You aren't adjusting to the circumstances of the area. You are just removing it or yourself from the equaltion all together, which doesn't work in the long run.

A/Cs break down...

Mages rebel...

Yes, you are.
Humans adjust in mulpitle ways. Including altering the area.
Of course, you are free to go walking trough the desert at 120° without water or shade... let's see how THAT works in the long run.

Rebelions are irrelevant. They aren't a show that it doesn't not work, they are just a "natural" occurence.

[Xilizhra]

Also, the populace doesn't like mages. As soon as a mage gets into the open - and if he wants ot use magic to fight templars that is inevitable - he's done for.

The Templar Order has become less popular in recent years, Cullen says so. The mages can win popular support if they play it right.

Rebelions are irrelevant. They aren't a show that it doesn't not work, they are just a "natural" occurence.

If so, this will be an occurrence to show that nothing like the Templar Order's tyranny will be allowed to happen again.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Friction exist in any system. It is irrelevant in the long run.

[Todd23]

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

[dragonflight288]

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who oppose  mage rule.

Fixed.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 27 août 2012 - 09:45 .

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...
If so, this will be an occurrence to show that nothing like the Templar Order's tyranny will be allowed to happen again.

Yes only mage tyranny is acceptable.

[dragonflight288]

No tyranny is acceptable. Mage or Chantry. Or even Ferelden tyranny (Arland, I'm looking at you!)

[terdferguson123]

Urzon wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Flesh eating diseases, hurricanes, earthquakes and volcanos are also natural phenomenons.
If we let nature decide what the world should be like, we would still be leaving in caves.

Nature decided that there would be: flesh eating diseases, earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanos, tornadoes, floods, forest fires, droughts, blizzards, and plagues. Yet people still aren't living in caves....

Why?

Because we adapted to said natural phenomenons.

Sure, but at the same time that's also becuase we can predict when these events will occur. The difference here is that a mage is also a person with free will. A natural disease or disaster is not the same.

[Dave of Canada]

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

[Lazy Jer]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

Technically speaking "Tranquil Mage" is a contradiction in terms.  Tranquil can't cast spells.

[Todd23]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

Then what would the dwarves do with all there lyrium?  Besides, who'd kill beautiful perfection to set the weak willed's minds at ease?

@Lazy Jer  The word you're looking for is oxymoron.

Modifié par Todd23, 28 août 2012 - 09:39 .

[dragonflight288]

Todd23 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

Then what would the dwarves do with all there lyrium?  Besides, who'd kill beautiful perfection to set the weak willed's minds at ease?

The same thing we've been doing. Use it for our own enchantments and smithing options. Us dwarves use most of the lyrium ourselves, and then trade the surplus to the Chantry. They get the left-overs.

[Todd23]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

Then what would the dwarves do with all there lyrium?  Besides, who'd kill beautiful perfection to set the weak willed's minds at ease?

The same thing we've been doing. Use it for our own enchantments and smithing options. Us dwarves use most of the lyrium ourselves, and then trade the surplus to the Chantry. They get the left-overs.

I wonder if this will play a part in DA3.  A competition between mages and templars to seal deals with the dwarves.  The chantry may have a monopoly on it, but the dwarves aren't loyal to them.  And didn't the templars technically leave the chantry to fight mages?

[Treacherous J Slither]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

JSlither wrote...
The supplies I speak of are mostly lyrium shipments. The mages can go shopping just like the mundanes to get what they need. The Templars cannot. The mages can destroy these lyrium shipments at no cost to themselves. Only the Templars will suffer from that. Why do you believe that the mages must steal in order to get anything? You can't tell if someone is a mage just by looking at them. They can go grocery shopping without any one being the wiser.

Sneaky and subtle tactics can be used by both sides.

Mages must eat too right? Station non-uniformed templars in markeplaces and food stores.

Also, the populace doesn't like mages. As soon as a mage gets into the open - and if he wants ot use magic to fight templars that is inevitable - he's done for.

Yes both sides can use subterfuge. However, what will stationing plain clothes Templars in marketplaces and food stores accomplish exactly? They still have no way of identifying mages. Half the people at the market could be mages and the Templars would have no idea.

Also, only some of the populace don't like mages. Also, a lot of people are scared of mages. I doubt that if a mage revealed themselves in a market somewhere that the people are going to mob the guy that can throw fireballs and make you dance with a wave of his hand.

[dragonflight288]

Todd23 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

Then what would the dwarves do with all there lyrium?  Besides, who'd kill beautiful perfection to set the weak willed's minds at ease?

The same thing we've been doing. Use it for our own enchantments and smithing options. Us dwarves use most of the lyrium ourselves, and then trade the surplus to the Chantry. They get the left-overs.

I wonder if this will play a part in DA3.  A competition between mages and templars to seal deals with the dwarves.  The chantry may have a monopoly on it, but the dwarves aren't loyal to them.  And didn't the templars technically leave the chantry to fight mages?

It's possible. The dwarves have absolutely no interesting in following the Chantry. They've just been good customers. With the templars gone and the Circles declared Independent, the Chantry has pretty much lost all need for lyrium. The only thing they can now use it for is to entice templars back into its ranks because otherwise the templars would have no guaranteed way to get it without pillaging the countryside to pay off a smuggler.

It's going to come down to coin, and who has the most to offer the dwarves, whether in the battle against the darkspawn or providing the dwarves with things they need but can't produce on their own, as they live underground.

[DPSSOC]

JSlither wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

JSlither wrote...
The supplies I speak of are mostly lyrium shipments. The mages can go shopping just like the mundanes to get what they need. The Templars cannot. The mages can destroy these lyrium shipments at no cost to themselves. Only the Templars will suffer from that. Why do you believe that the mages must steal in order to get anything? You can't tell if someone is a mage just by looking at them. They can go grocery shopping without any one being the wiser.

Sneaky and subtle tactics can be used by both sides.

Mages must eat too right? Station non-uniformed templars in markeplaces and food stores.

Also, the populace doesn't like mages. As soon as a mage gets into the open - and if he wants ot use magic to fight templars that is inevitable - he's done for.

Yes both sides can use subterfuge. However, what will stationing plain clothes Templars in marketplaces and food stores accomplish exactly? They still have no way of identifying mages. Half the people at the market could be mages and the Templars would have no idea.

Maybe it's been changed but can't Templars sense magic?  I seem to recall in DA:O at least one Templar recognizing Morrigan as a mage, or being suspicious of her anyway, and Ser Bryant spots a Circle Mage immediately.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think templars can sense magic anymore, at least not on the small scale of a single mage. Morrigan and the Grey Warden mage also both look like mages, wearing robes and carrying staves. It's not that hard to see.

The staff and most story-related robe designs in DA2 look less outright magical.

[KingRoxas]

DPSSOC wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
If so, this will be an occurrence to show that nothing like the Templar Order's tyranny will be allowed to happen again.

Yes only mage tyranny is acceptable.

 

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

This also.

Modifié par Kingroxas, 29 août 2012 - 05:24 .

[GavrielKay]

terdferguson123 wrote...
Sure, but at the same time that's also becuase we can predict when these events will occur. The difference here is that a mage is also a person with free will. A natural disease or disaster is not the same.

Err...  even in the modern world we aren't exactly expert at predicting natural disasters.  We've gotten a bit better at some things...  watching tropical storms build into hurricanes, detecting small tremoors that could mean a volcano is about to erupt etc, but it's not perfect and people still die.

I still believe that the majority's "right" to feel safe or even be safe doesn't trump the mages' right to be treated as people until they actually commit a crime.  It is immoral to punish someone for being born.

[Vinkhor]

From the point of view of the modern law systems is very simple: "presumption of innocence" or simply put: " innocent until proven guilty"(even the roman law had this rule). So, the chantry perverted this basic rule, present in any modern law system, by making all the mages guilty...

[Todd23]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

My sollution: Kill all non-mages who apose mage rule.

Sounds like too much trouble, can't we just kill the mages instead? Least we can make them tranquil, we'll start our own chain of Tranquil massage parlors where you can find your "inner tranquility".

Then what would the dwarves do with all there lyrium?  Besides, who'd kill beautiful perfection to set the weak willed's minds at ease?

The same thing we've been doing. Use it for our own enchantments and smithing options. Us dwarves use most of the lyrium ourselves, and then trade the surplus to the Chantry. They get the left-overs.

I wonder if this will play a part in DA3.  A competition between mages and templars to seal deals with the dwarves.  The chantry may have a monopoly on it, but the dwarves aren't loyal to them.  And didn't the templars technically leave the chantry to fight mages?

It's possible. The dwarves have absolutely no interesting in following the Chantry. They've just been good customers. With the templars gone and the Circles declared Independent, the Chantry has pretty much lost all need for lyrium. The only thing they can now use it for is to entice templars back into its ranks because otherwise the templars would have no guaranteed way to get it without pillaging the countryside to pay off a smuggler.

It's going to come down to coin, and who has the most to offer the dwarves, whether in the battle against the darkspawn or providing the dwarves with things they need but can't produce on their own, as they live underground.

Though mages don't NEED lyrium, it sure would aid in a world war.  Not to mention the more coin they can offer the dwarves.  The less Templars can purchase for themselves.  The higher rank Templars will initially have the coin to purchase straight from the dwarves.  And many Templars will have lyrium smugling contacts to share with their fellows.  But all in all it's going to boil down to sympathy donations and mercenary work.  Mages will definately have the upper hand in terms mercenary work, but templars will have an easier time getting donations from supporters.  Unless the mages get a little under the table aid from Tevinter.