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Weapon Analysis: The N7 Crusader


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#1
GodlessPaladin

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Here's some quick but thorough analysis of the N7 Crusader.  If anyone gives a damn I can make this a series.

A Question of Competing Choices
Here I'm comparing to a few other weapons that aren't exactly top tier frontrunners dominating the current  metagame... the Paladin and the Saber (They wish they could be like the Harrier or Talon or whatever, and really the extra headshot accuracy at very long range doesn't do them any grand favors in the equation thanks to the shield gate and practical consideration of extra aim time / risk).

Now in the interest of fairness, I'll compare all weapons at the same level... Crusader X to Saber X and Paladin X.  But realistically, you can't get the Crusader to X, and the comparison looks even uglier with, say, a Crusader V.

Crusader:
Damage per bullet:  608.3 (at V, it's 540.6, at I it's 486.6)
Base Burst DPS with no refire error:  ~811.1
Base Sustained DPS with active reloading and no refire error:  ~687.3
Firing Time:  3 seconds.

Other factors:  High recoil, very high weight (2.0),  .25m  innate penetration.

Mod options:
  Extended Barrel is a no-brainer, but what of the second mod?  Smart choke is useless (since it's already pinpoint accurate), so that leaves the lackluster extra clips or armor penetration for slightly more damage against armored foes and penetrating thicker cover.  The fact that you kinda wanna take penetration anyways reduces the worth of the small free penetration.  There's also the option of a melee mod, allowing it to shoot through guardian shields without using AP ammo or a shredder mod while offering a damage boost for melee characters.

Paladin:
Damage per bullet: 531.1
Base Burst DPS with no refire error:  ~885.2
Base Sustained DPS with active reloading and no refire error:  ~603.5 (With Magazine Size mod ~691.5)
Firing Time:  1.8 seconds (3 seconds with extended magazine)

Other factors:  Negligible recoil, low weight (0.7)

Mod options:
  Your mod options are considerably better than the Crusader.  You can go for an extended barrel or switch it out for even more damage advantage over the Crusader with the cranial trauma system if you plan to be headshotting (essentially the point of the Crusader, Paladin, and Saber).  You also get a greater penetration distance than the Crusader with the Pistol Piercing Mod than with the Shotgun Shredder Mod + free penetration.  There's also the choice of an extended magazine for more sustained damage and firing time or a scope for easier sniping.  There's also the option of a melee mod equivalent to the Crusader's.  Choices, choices.

Saber:
Damage per bullet: 534.8
Base Burst DPS with no refire error:  ~713.1
Base Sustained DPS with active reloading and no refire error:  ~583.7 (With Magazine Size mod ~632.5)
Firing Time:  6 seconds (A whopping 10.5 seconds with extended magazine) means that you're almost never stuck reloading and it takes a long time for your DPS to drop below 700.

Other factors:  Higher recoil than the Paladin, still a much lower weight than the Crusader (1.4)

Mod options:
  Extended Barrel is a no brainer.  Besides that, you can choose between a scope for easier sniping, an extended magazine for more sustained burst firing time than you'll ever need, and a piercing mod which is better than the version the Crusader gets.  You get a greater penetration distance than the Crusader with the Assault Rifle Piercing Mod than with the Shotgun Shredder Mod + free penetration.  There's also the option of a melee mod equivalent to the Crusader's.

And then we compare to something really competitive in the current metagame...

The Cerberus Harrier.
This gun is a bit different from the others in that it has an actual spread and is fully automatic, making the comparison a bit more complex.  However, it is very accurate at long range... enough that you can reliably headshot with it at a considerable range and reliably body shot with it across the biggest maps like Dagger.  It also loses next to no damage to the shield gate, and requires sustained fire.  The fact that damage is distributed across more bullets also means that its aim is more forgiving.  It also has a decent rate for staggering enemies or causing them to roll.

Damage per bullet: 129.5
Base Burst DPS with no refire error:  An incredible ~1187.1
Base Sustained DPS with active reloading and no refire error:  An equally impressive ~908.2 (With Magazine Size mod ~1014.1)
Firing Time:  ~2.18 seconds (~3.93 with extended magazine mod)

Other factors:  Almost no recoil, lower weight than the Saber (1.25), low ammo (though this isn't a problem for characters like grenadiers who should be making ammo box circuits already).

Mod options:
  Extended Barrel is a no brainer.  Besides that, you can choose between a scope for easier sniping, an extended magazine for more sustained burst firing time (though the reload is so fast and the damage so high that it's not really needed), and a piercing mod which is better than the version the Crusader gets.  You get a greater penetration distance than the Crusader with the Assault Rifle Piercing Mod than with the Shotgun Shredder Mod + free Crusader penetration.  There's also the option of a melee mod equivalent to the Crusader's.

A Question of Niche

Who is the Crusader good for?

Sniper Infiltrators?  After all they care less about weight.  But then they also get a base damage boost to competitors like the Black Widow, easily giving them better damage output with the same innate penetration.

Characters who don't care about weight at all?   But then they have less firing time or burst damage than the alternatives, and more importantly those characters aren't really the guys who benefit more from weapons that can't break the shield gate.  (Elaboration on this point by EvanKester and myself:  http://social.biowar...3962/2#13534381 and http://social.biowar...3962/2#13534458)

How about characters that easily get rid of the shield gate or otherwise synergize well with headshot weapons like characters who use Overload, Energy Drain, or Stasis?  Well, it turns out that a massive weight increase without any real payoff compared to the Saber or Paladin matters to them. 

A Question of Thresholds
The extra single shot damage a Crusader deals just won't bump it up into territory where it can one-shot a lowly Gold Cannibal with a body shot without extreme bonuses.  In order for you to one-shot a lowly Gold Cannibal with a body shot, the unattainable Crusader X would need a whopping 333% weapon damage. 

In order for you to one-shot a Platinum Cannibal with a headshot, you'd need 174% weapon damage.

The point is, if you fall just short of this and you need a second shot, meaning that your extra damage compared to the Saber or Paladin is being wasted.  A Saber that's not even at level X can kill a Gold Phantom in two shots from an Asari Vanguard without taking any weapon damage evolutions.  The Crusader cannot take less shots to do the same, and has half the clip and much more weight.

Conclusion
The Crusader sucks pretty badly for its rarity class.  It's a black card, commendation pack only weapon that simply doesn't fulfill any particular niche in the metagame as well as its competitiors.

In short, it could really stand to receive a few well-deserved buffs.

Personally, I would prefer to see it get a meaningful damage upgrade over anything else.  A simple weight reduction would just make it more similar to its competitors.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 août 2012 - 03:14 .


#2
IllusiveManJr

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I didn't like the Crusader X in single-player and I detest my Crusader III in multi even more.

#3
RKOLK

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rather get it instead of an eagle

#4
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Bu...

Bu...

But I'm good with it. Posted Image

#5
Mozts

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Got inspired in the other thread?

Crusader is even worst than I thought... This is a like "Roasting" but for weapons!

#6
Javo2357

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What could you buff tho? The mods are going to be the same so...I'm guessing just make it hit harder or maybe reduce the recoil?

EDIT: Other than lowering the weight of course..

Modifié par Javo2357, 06 août 2012 - 07:06 .


#7
Shamrock2100

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Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday

#8
IllusiveManJr

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Saber > Crusader
I'm perfectly capable of using the Crusader to it's fullest extent. I just feel that it is a horrid weapon for what it's supposed to be. The Saber does it better.

#9
Mozts

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Shamrock2100 wrote...

Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday


And a lot do the same with Locust, they lack the skill to kill two presidents.

ITS THE KASSA LOCUST

#10
GodlessPaladin

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Mozts wrote...

Got inspired in the other thread?

  What other thread?

Crusader is even worst than I thought... This is a like "Roasting" but for weapons!

It's not as bad as I did for the Eagle back when it came out, when I was saying that it would not rock the boat if it had its DPS literally doubled.  Since then, its DPS has been just about doubled by the balance changes (it used to be 282 DPS IIRC)... and the boat hasn't rocked.  :lol:

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 06 août 2012 - 07:11 .


#11
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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I think the reason I think this gun is so good is because I don't have a Saber, Paladin or Harrier.

#12
DHKany

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uhmmmmm i agree.
Tried the Human infiltrator crusader build once, and.....
you don't want to know what happened.

#13
Xhitaa

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

Here's some quick but thorough analysis of the N7 Crusader.  If anyone gives a damn I can make this a series.

*snip*


I give a damn and I would be very interested on this. ^_^
And thanks!

#14
DullahansXMark

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The Mad Hanar wrote...

I think the reason I think this gun is so good is because I don't have a Saber, Paladin or Harrier.


It's probably what you could call a crutch weapon; it's good up until you get something better, then it's just nigh-garbage. I wouldn't call the Crusader garbage though, but it could seriously use some buffs that make it stand above the rest.

But, yeah, once you get the Saber, you'll never go back.

#15
His Name was HYR!!

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I have a niche for this gun on Krogan Sentinel.

I play as a melee-tank, and my AR slot goes to the Falcon. Crusader is my "conventional" weapon when I'm not backhanding crowds of enemies.

Don't need AP mod to pierce Guardian shields, I find the crosshairs better than the Paladin's, so I just up the damage and attach a blade.

#16
Grunt_Platform

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Some additional thoughts about niche:

It is one of the few weapons with both innate penetration and access to a melee mod. This has questionable value, but it IS sort of a niche. Kind of.

Of course, this means its competing with other guns for the spot of melee enhancing weapon, which then makes it a matter of which class. For kroguard, lighter weight weapons like the Piranha, Paladin, and Talon all offer comparable or better damage. Heck, if you want ranged accuracy the Paladin and the Mattock have a lot better damage for their weight, and can do decent damage even with AP mods instead of extended barrels, and will be penetrating more than four times as far as the Crusader.

#17
holdenagincourt

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

*sigh* As long as it weighs as much as the Destiny Ascension, I will not be picking it up for any reason other than the lulz. I'd rather get Eagles (of course Valiants or Hurricanes would be preferred ^_^)

#18
DullahansXMark

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

I have a niche for this gun on Krogan Sentinel.

I play as a melee-tank, and my AR slot goes to the Falcon. Crusader is my "conventional" weapon when I'm not backhanding crowds of enemies.

Don't need AP mod to pierce Guardian shields, I find the crosshairs better than the Paladin's, so I just up the damage and attach a blade.


This (and I'm being legit here) seems legit.

Plus, IIRC, doesn't the Crusader reload fast, too? That's a pretty viable argument to use it over the Saber, possibly (no amount of reload-cancelling will carry you all the time).

#19
GodlessPaladin

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DullahansXMark wrote...

Plus, IIRC, doesn't the Crusader reload fast, too? That's a pretty viable argument to use it over the Saber, possibly (no amount of reload-cancelling will carry you all the time).


The Saber has such a long firing time that reloading in the heat of battle is almost never an issue for it to begin with.

#20
morrisrevan

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I like using it every now and then to challenge myself. What's the point if it isn't challenging, right? Plus, I like the feeling of head shotting someone at 50 meters with a shotgun. :devil:

#21
GodlessPaladin

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EvanKester wrote...

Some additional thoughts about niche:

It is one of the few weapons with both innate penetration and access to a melee mod. This has questionable value, but it IS sort of a niche. Kind of.

Of course, this means its competing with other guns for the spot of melee enhancing weapon, which then makes it a matter of which class. For kroguard, lighter weight weapons like the Piranha, Paladin, and Talon all offer comparable or better damage. Heck, if you want ranged accuracy the Paladin and the Mattock have a lot better damage for their weight, and can do decent damage even with AP mods instead of extended barrels, and will be penetrating more than four times as far as the Crusader.


Yes.  This is one place where its potential for unique relevance lies (as opposed to just making it an alternate Paladin or something by reducing its weight). 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 06 août 2012 - 07:30 .


#22
Xerorei

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Shamrock2100 wrote...

Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday


You DO realize that a "Sniper Shotgun" defeats the very puropse of the weapon known as the Shotgun, right?

#23
Xhitaa

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I honestly used it once... on Silver... and never again!

#24
kevchy

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Why use the Crusader when there are better shotguns like the Claymore?

Seriously, this gun is utter rubbish.

#25
Grunt_Platform

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So, Krogan Sentinel, using HCB + Blade is a useful niche for it. Though it probably depends heavily on what rank your Crusader is, and what ranks your alternatives are. At rank III, my Crusader would be more powerful (in terms of DPS) than my Saber or Paladin on this particular build, though I'm not sure how useful the difference is.

And honestly, if I'm using a melee build that wants a strong gun and needs an answer to guardians, I use AP ammo. The Crusader's only pulling ahead here because I'm giving it High Caliber Barrel, and AP mod to its rivals. Under the conditions I'd actually use the weapons, the Mattock X is easily outdamaging the Crusader. Things start looking worse for the poor gun if I start comparing it to the stronger rivals.

Gun's viable, of course, but it is underpowered.

Modifié par EvanKester, 06 août 2012 - 07:36 .