132 réponses à ce sujet

[Teratoid]

Airscale wrote...

Teratoid wrote...
I'm guessing Kishock qualifies as "sucky" in your list due to the fact that its impossible to use if you're not hosting, the projectile drop, and so on?

That is mostly why people hate the crusader as well, but oddly enough I don't see you list that anywhere. Oh, wait, that's just on guns only you like... so on those you will find an excuse...  if you lag while playing with the crusader, guess what, you can't use it. Doesn't mean the gun is bad, it means you're lagging or (outside of lag) can't conform to it's style of play.

AFAIK, Crusader isn't a projectile based weapon like the Kishock and the Graal. Even if you aren't hosting, you can hit thing enemies pretty much where you point. For example, you shoot something in the head: the lag makes it seems like you've missed entirely for a 4th of a second, and suddenly their heads explode. Because the hit is instantaneous, but it takes the game the duration of your latency for the host to recognize it.

With the Kishock and the Graal, the projectiles take time to reach their targets, unlike the Crusader, or the Sabre and Paladin and so on. So with lag, you're mostly shooting at nothing while believing you've lined up a perfect headshot.

In short, no, Crusader isn't affected the same way by lag as Kishock and Graal are.

Airscale wrote...
Now lets all call a truce and hit up the ice cream social!

Didn't realise we were at war

[sparkydeltorro]

Teratoid wrote...

Airscale wrote...

Teratoid wrote...
I'm guessing Kishock qualifies as "sucky" in your list due to the fact that its impossible to use if you're not hosting, the projectile drop, and so on?

That is mostly why people hate the crusader as well, but oddly enough I don't see you list that anywhere. Oh, wait, that's just on guns only you like... so on those you will find an excuse...  if you lag while playing with the crusader, guess what, you can't use it. Doesn't mean the gun is bad, it means you're lagging or (outside of lag) can't conform to it's style of play.

AFAIK, Crusader isn't a projectile based weapon like the Kishock and the Graal. Even if you aren't hosting, you can hit thing enemies pretty much where you point. For example, you shoot something in the head: the lag makes it seems like you've missed entirely for a 4th of a second, and suddenly their heads explode. Because the hit is instantaneous, but it takes the game the duration of your latency for the host to recognize it.

With the Kishock and the Graal, the projectiles take time to reach their targets, unlike the Crusader, or the Sabre and Paladin and so on. So with lag, you're mostly shooting at nothing while believing you've lined up a perfect headshot.

In short, no, Crusader isn't affected the same way by lag as Kishock and Graal are.

Airscale wrote...
Now lets all call a truce and hit up the ice cream social!

Didn't realise we were at war

No truce! Battle to the death!

[Airscale]

Teratoid wrote...

In short, no, Crusader isn't affected the same way by lag as Kishock and Graal are.

Airscale wrote...
Now lets all call a truce and hit up the ice cream social!

Didn't realise we were at war

I didn't think so either until you started going off on that little diatribe about people defending the crusader, I assumed we were at that point, since it seemed rather aimed at myself. If it wasn't then my apologies for assuming you were doing anything other than being passive aggressive.

As for the lag, lag affects the crusader greatly... I can agree that it wouldn't as much as a charge-up weapon (and we've covered in a previous thread just how much I hate charge up guns) with a slow shot, but lag does indeed cause a lot of problems with it considering it's pin-point accurate (you have a crusader 4, if you've lagged with it at all you would totally notice it)... so if you're off by a silver (such as what happens with lag) you're going to miss.

Barring anything else, we may just have to agree to disagree (and that goes for you, the OP, and anyone else who doesn't like the gun)... and perhaps we should do so without any further jabs or odes to people being incompetent.

Modifié par Airscale, 06 août 2012 - 02:41 .

[Booshnickins]

Shamrock2100 wrote...

Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday

I choose the Phalanx over the Typhoon.

[Pedactor]

Shield Gate.

Crusader is affected by it. Smart Choke makes many guns better since they then can bypass Shield Gate.

Geth Plasma Shotgun weighs less, bypasses Shieldgate when multiple balls hit, inately homes, has piercing without a mod, and is accurate before bonuses for a very long distance.

The only downside of the GPS is the travel time of the plasma goo.

GPS pretty much craps on this thing, and it's a rare.

You can easily put a melee mod on the GPS since the shredder and Smart Choke do next to nothing to it, meaning you run Barrel and either clip or melee.

GPS is higher damage (when charged, which for infiltrators, as well as the Graal, means 2-3 shots per TC cycle based on latency.)

This math is great, Godless, but I don't see the point. It's worthless above Silver. The weight is bad, the innate piercing is outclassed, and the damage is lackluster.

Anybody saying otherwise is either a unique snowflake, doesn't play above silver, and/or doesn't understand what shieldgate is and how it works. Reducing Shield gate to 90% did very little, to boot.

This is far and away the best weapon slot for anybody not really caring about recharge times. Almost every shotgun, be it the Claymore, GPS, Graal, Wraith, or Piranha, can be modded to be good from mid-ranges, which is really all ranges due to the size of the boards.

Last I checked, we aren't sniping pigeons on top of the Citadel.

The one part of this analysis that I REALLY love is the Paladin vs. the Crusader. Pistols are crazy, the Phalanx, Carnifex, Talon (close range), and Paladin do absolutely staggering amounts of damage, and in combination with a Cryosniper or Stasis Sniper, do insane amounts of damage.

BioWare, you could increase this guns damage by 200%, decrease its weight by half, and lower its recoil by half, but it's all pointless until Shieldgate is lowered for weapons like this as long as the Paladin and Carnifex exist, as far as I'm concerned.

I hate this gun. I cower worrying that I'll get a PPR upgrade or Crusader upgrade next time I get a black label and that really sucks that I have to think like that.

[N7 Whiskey]

While I'll certainly not argue against a Crusader buff as I really believe it needs one, I also will not agree that it is useless or outclassed by Saber & Paladin. Yes, it has serious drawbacks and yes it can be a difficult weapon to use at times. It also has potential to do insane damage to armored opponents and it doesn't take much to do this.

The big advantage the Crusader has over the Saber (my favorite weapon in the game BTW) is hipfire accuracy for CQC. The Crusader can be fired as fast as you can up close and won't miss. The Saber will throw out errant shots when fired from the hip which drastically reduces its effectiveness in CQC since ADS aiming is pretty slow.

So to get maximum effectiveness with Crusader without going bat-ish insane with consumables, simply go with the following.

Crusader + EB + Shredder Mod = Marshmallow Armor

Turian Soldier spec'd for headshot damage on Turian Veteran & Marksman. Throw in a HS damage booster for Gear (Vulnerability VI) and Weapon Stability armor mod and you can simply annihilate the enemy mobs while also dealing massive damage to armored opponents.

Destroyer - Just spec him like you have been and then throw in another high damage weapon for a backup. I prefer my Hurricane II to go with my Crusader IV.

[GodlessPaladin]

Pedactor wrote...
Shield Gate.

Funnily enough, reducing the shield gate to 90% actually potentially made the Crusader worse for Stasis snipers, since now you have to worry about it breaking Stasis if you ramp up your weapon damage.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 06 août 2012 - 03:03 .

[samb]

 So its a ****ty gun, but I never guessed how ****ty. 

Id love to see a series on gun reviews, but will you be updating every thread with each new balance?

[Pedactor]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Pedactor wrote...
Shield Gate.

Funnily enough, reducing the shield gate to 90% actually potentially made the Crusader worse for Stasis snipers, since now you have to worry about it breaking Stasis if you ramp up your weapon damage.

"Pellets" > all.

[nicethugbert]

sparkydeltorro wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

/signed

Shamrock2100 wrote...

Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday

What can you do better with the crusader that you can't do better with Paladin or Saber?

Shoot through light cover, windows and guardian shields without mods?

I'm not sure that is worth the extra weight or promotional status.

[LuckyBullet95]

Shamrock2100 wrote...

Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday

Not sure if trolling... or just stupid...

Strawman meme aside... Actually it's just as GP said, what niches it does fill are filled better by other, more easily attainable weapons. What's the point in using the Crusader if a Saber or Paladin or even the Carnifex can do eveything it can do but... better... and with less weight penalty... and easier to level up...

Sure you can claim "skill" but honestly it takes no skill to use any weapon in this game, the only skill in this game comes from using the battlefield, rockets and dodge system to your advantage, cheating the corner, well-timed dodges of a Banshee warp, strafe-shooting and appropriate rocketting are the only things that need any kind of "skill". And I use that word very lightly even with quotation marks...

A sniper shotgun you say? It takes more of your so-called but non-existant skill to headshot mook across the map with the Claymore than it does with the Crusader but it's still easy to do, but it ignores shieldgate, does high damage per shot and requires less exposure to enemy fire. It also is incalculably more efficient in close range due to it having a spread of pellets, aswell as the aforementioned shieldgate penetration.  The Wraith and Eviscerator are also better choices at long range and short range being "sniper shotguns" if you actually bother with that kind of playstyle. Better yet why not just use an actual sniper?

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Its a sniping shotgun. Thats the perk. And the only one really.

[GodlessPaladin]

samb wrote...
Id love to see a series on gun reviews, but will you be updating every thread with each new balance?

No promises about updates.  I post stuff on request if/when I have time. 

LuckyBullet95 wrote...
 it's just as GP said, what niches it does fill are filled better by other, more easily attainable weapons. What's the
point in using the Crusader if a Saber or Paladin or even the Carnifex can do eveything it can do but... better... and with less weight penalty... and easier to level up...

 I suppose I should have mentioned the Carnifex.  It really highlights the "thresholds" issue.  The Carnifex can get enough weapon damage bonuses that it can 2-shot a Gold Phantom.  The Crusader simply cannot get enough damage bonuses that it can 1-shot a Gold Phantom.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 06 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[Feneckus]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

a few other weapons that aren't exactly top tier frontrunners... the Paladin and the Saber

What ? The Paladin is one of the best guns in the game, what are you talking about ? What other gun can two shot a phantom at any range while giving you a 190% cooldown bonus ?

[GodlessPaladin]

Feneckus wrote...
What other gun can two shot a phantom at any range while giving you a 190% cooldown bonus ?

Technically, the Carnifex can two-shot a Phantom at any range while giving you an even lower cooldown bonus.

In any case, yes, the Paladin is quite good.  It just isn't one of the absolute best weapons, like the Harrier or Piranha.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 06 août 2012 - 03:23 .

[OneTrueShot]

The new N7 soldier makes this weapon shine, but I'll stick to my KroSent Saber/Claymore build, thanks.

As fun as my level 4 Crusader is, it's just too much of a niche weapon for anyone but the devastator. Drop the weight and recoil and then we'll talk. Damage is honestly fine as is, but its' weight and recoil are the killers in this instance.

[nicethugbert]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Other candidates for analysis:

Sucky Black weapons: Eagle, Javelin.

Sucky Gold weapons: Widow, Kishok, Disciple, Geth Pulse Rifle, Geth Plasma SMG, Striker.

Crazy weapon that I see 3 or 4 of in almost every Platinum lobby regardless of class composition and hear people actually commenting about being afraid to use anything else: N7 Piranha

Kishock is one of my favorite weapons.  Would like to see a comparison involving it.  But, not sure what to compare against.  Graal and GPS?  Well, that has problems as you will be comparing what are essentially AOE weapons(Graal and GPS, even if in a small way) with a point of effect weapon.

Striker comparison would be interesting.  Krysae seems like a decent comparator, perhaps Falcon too.

What to compare ths scorpion against?

It's much easier to analyze point of effect weapons than it is to analyze AOE weapons.  More work is required for analysing AOE weapons.  It's essentially multiple analysis, each one done at select points.

[AbhijitSM]

Flambirex wrote...

I got the Crusader VI this week while still not having a Hurricane. (Un)manly tears were shed.

Lol...i am in the same boat as you are. Lvl 6 crusader with no hurricane . And i thought no one else had a higher or equal rank crusader than me.

[ryanshowseason3]

That was a fair analysis OP. It could do with a disclaimer that lack of skill with other weapons is certainly a personal factor.

I felt like this is what was going on with the weapon though. Its a good novelty but you can do better most of the time. I don't really use my shotgun amps so I use them with it sometimes but otherwise...

[Feneckus]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Other candidates for analysis:

Sucky Black weapons: Eagle, Javelin.

Sucky Gold weapons: Widow, Kishok, Disciple, Geth Pulse Rifle, Geth Plasma SMG, Striker.

I disagree about the Javelin, it's a great gun. With a ****load of equipment I was able to one shot phantoms. And you don't even need headshots/cloak to kill most units. I have a Javelin X though.

And the Geth Plasma SMG is really good on a Destroyer with the right equipment. Although that's more because of his bonuses than the weapon itself I guess.

[UKStory135]

I find this gun to be fun on the soldier, but as the OP said. There are guns that are just better. I personally find the gun good, but pointless.

[sparkydeltorro]

nicethugbert wrote...

sparkydeltorro wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

/signed

Shamrock2100 wrote...

Alot of people throw Crusader by the way side because they lack the skill to use it.

ITS LIKE A SNIPER SHOTGUN... EPIC!
Its my favorite weapon i choose it over a Typhoon anyday

What can you do better with the crusader that you can't do better with Paladin or Saber?

Shoot through light cover, windows and guardian shields without mods?

I'm not sure that is worth the extra weight or promotional status.

I'm not really trying to sell it as the superior weapon. more a personal preference and a worthy alternative.. It is actually my favourite gun. Its a lot of fun head shotting 4+ guardians in the space of 3-4 seconds.

[Shampoohorn]

I would say that this is a nice post, except I just got the Crusader IV this week.

While the gun is occasionally fun to use on krogan, there is always a better choice in my arsenal. I would say it needs the following buffs:
Slight weight reduction
10-20% damage boost
Slight increased to rate of fire
Increased chance to stagger
Slight increase in zoom when targeting

I would also suggest the shotgun melee mod get a buff so that they're better than the pistol and AR versions. This would indirectly buff the crusader, at least in comparison to the Paladin and Saber.

[Relix28]

Feneckus wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Other candidates for analysis:

Sucky Black weapons: Eagle, Javelin.

Sucky Gold weapons: Widow, Kishok, Disciple, Geth Pulse Rifle, Geth Plasma SMG, Striker.

I disagree about the Javelin, it's a great gun. With a ****load of equipment I was able to one shot phantoms. And you don't even need headshots/cloak to kill most units. I have a Javelin X though.

And the Geth Plasma SMG is really good on a Destroyer with the right equipment. Although that's more because of his bonuses than the weapon itself I guess.

I assume you mean one-shotting Phantoms on Gold/Platinum difficulty? If so, I am very interested in the setup you used (class, build, equipment, etc...).

[rcolol]

I have fun using it on my regular human soldier, but yeah, I'm all for this thing getting buffed.