139 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnifarious Nef]

nukembaby wrote...

I guess you meant to say he is the perfectly balanced character. But then why don't I see any Human Infiltrators, QFI, even the SI anymore? Because they are all obviously inferior to the GI. Doesn't sound balanced to me. But you say they're so squishy it more than makes up for it! Throw on cyclonic and a shield amp and now your GI is a tank. Win win win.

Well guess who's the loser? The Krysae, the Piranha, and all other awesome weapons that are introduced in the future. All because of ONE very annoyingly overpowered character. My proposal is very moderate; it certainly doesn't bring the GI down to its knees. It would still be among the top two infiltrators.

I play all three of those you mentioned. I don't play the human very often though. But my go to is the SI/FQI. Both have shield stripping powers for single shot snipers.

[Gockey]

nukembaby wrote...

All you people saying this idea is stupid without giving any reason why you think so--you are most likely using this character as a crutch to compensate for a lack of game skills. Much in the same way you use insults to compensate for a lack of ability to THINK.

Really, just tell me WHY you think it's a bad idea and we can go on from there.

Lol we've been telling you why.  Because you have no evidence.  

Here let me turn your most recent absurd statement on its head for you:

"The OP says this is a good idea without giving any reason why-- he must be butt-hurt over these characters putting more points on the board than him and posting to compensate for his lack of game skills."

Get it yet?

[nukembaby]

Optimistman wrote...

Ryan_H wrote...

The OP + BW listening to the likes of him is the reason I won't be coming back to ME3 after Borderlands 2 comes out.

This. With the addition of stupid glitches.

And yet you both are still here. And playing.

I dare you to quit right now. Yeah, I didn't think so.

Modifié par nukembaby, 06 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[holdenagincourt]

Optimistman wrote...

Geth infiltrator doesn't need rebalancing. With absolute fragileness comes great power.

Besides, a game i was in not too long ago: Two geth infiltrators (both with pirahnas, one had his at X) were in my lobby. Outscored them at the end of the game. Not saying which character i was using as that will only get them nerfed faster. But yeah without mods to back them up, geth are garbage in the wrong hands. Just like salarians.

I can outscore bad players with any class and loadout in the game as long as they're bad enough. That anecdote proves nothing.

Also, the GI is not fragile whatsoever, unless one is running into crowds and meleeing them like an idiot. One lone Assault Trooper outside of your heavy melee stagger AOE will ruin your day. But since you have a wallhack, smokehack, teammemberhack and visualeffectshack, that really should not be happening.

[m1lanov]

not this again...yes,the GI Piranha can kill everything in seconds,but he can die just as easily so enough already

[Omega2079]

nukembaby wrote...

All you people saying this idea is stupid without giving any reason why you think so--you are most likely using this character as a crutch to compensate for a lack of game skills. Much in the same way you use insults to compensate for a lack of ability to THINK.

Really, just tell me WHY you think it's a bad idea and we can go on from there.

I find the Krogans to be much more surviveable, because of their health and shielding. If I wanted a crutch, I'd be demanding the GI get a massive health/shield buff.

[Gockey]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Optimistman wrote...

Geth infiltrator doesn't need rebalancing. With absolute fragileness comes great power.

Besides, a game i was in not too long ago: Two geth infiltrators (both with pirahnas, one had his at X) were in my lobby. Outscored them at the end of the game. Not saying which character i was using as that will only get them nerfed faster. But yeah without mods to back them up, geth are garbage in the wrong hands. Just like salarians.

I can outscore bad players with any class and loadout in the game as long as they're bad enough. That anecdote proves nothing.

Also, the GI is not fragile whatsoever, unless one is running into crowds and meleeing them like an idiot. One lone Assault Trooper outside of your heavy melee stagger AOE will ruin your day. But since you have a wallhack, smokehack, teammemberhack and visualeffectshack, that really should not be happening.

Oh come on, lets be honest.  The GI is incredibly fragile with hunter mode.  That's a fact and nohing changes that.  
I completely agree with you that wallhack and such is a tool to keep you from getting hit.  But acting like the GI isn't squishy makes you look silly.  Why does it matter that they are squishy if it is offset by wallhack?  Because I can't tell you the number of times a Banshee warps a teammate and I get splashed.  Or a rocket trooper triple fires on a teammate runing by me to get ammo and downs me. 

Point is the GI is squishy.  And it is a point to be considered.

[nukembaby]

Gockey wrote...

Lol we've been telling you why.  Because you have no evidence.  

Here let me turn your most recent absurd statement on its head for you:

"The OP says this is a good idea without giving any reason why-- he must be butt-hurt over these characters putting more points on the board than him and posting to compensate for his lack of game skills."

Get it yet?

Here is sigma_draconis's reply, the only intelligent counter-argument to my OP so far in a sea of mindless bandwagon no-independent-thought insulting--and to which I offered a rebuttal. You all can learn something from him,

I don't personally play the GI anymore. People get annoyed with me when I score >150k and nobody else gets to kill anything. I prefer the QMI when I do play an infiltrator. It's easier to hold back on him since he has limited grenades.

sigma_draconis wrote...

HM without the ability to Cloak makes him a glorified soldier with extra squishiness. Cloak without HM makes him completely inferior to the SI who has both Cloak and Proxy and can ED during cloak. The problem with this suggestion is that it doesn't just nerf the GI but will make it completely obsolete when we have the SI and Destroyer.

[sigma_draconis]

nukembaby wrote...

Well finally an intelligent reply. What I'm suggesting is to have HM act similarly to TC in the way that it persists for 1.5 seconds after firing another power while it is engaged. This way HM and TC will still stack for 1.5 seconds. For example in HM, you trigger TC. HM will start to break, but you have 1.5 seconds until it is totally deactivated. In that time you can get off a Claymore shot or 2-3 piranha shots. I would think this is comparable to what the SI can do damage wise.

But--and here's the cool thing--if you have TC specced to fire an extra power and remain cloaked, you could then get in a prox mine during the HM+TC stack just like you can do now: HM on, trigger TC, fire prox, fire weapon...all before HM wears off. Or you can have TC on first, then trigger HM and keep both on for the duration of cloak...or you can fire a prox mine after triggering HM which will then break TC and HM but still give you 1.5 seconds of damage stack. Configured this way, the GI would still be CLEARLY superior to the SI in damage output while giving you two new ways to combine powers--in other words, more variety about how you can play the GI. I think this would be a good thing.

It sounds like an interesting suggestion on paper, but in reality it's just going to force people to use a very limited amount of builds. Thing is, no one's ever going to sacrifice damage bonuses (as evidence by the fact that everyone still don't take Duration even after the nerf). So whereas before people would either go with 5 on Cloak for extra Fitness or take the rank 6 Bonus Power so they can Proxy Mine safely, now people are forced to take the rank 6 Bonus if they want to be able to do max damage.

And on BW's side of things, this would also require more than just a Balance Change since it completely alters how a power works, probably only possible in a Patch. That may be too much effort for something that could lead to a lot of public outcry and I just don't see them doing it.

[Omega2079]

nukembaby wrote...

People get annoyed with me when I score >150k and nobody else gets to kill anything. 

Those are bad players. Really. The GI can't kill fast enough to prevent good players from scoring so low below you.

[Chozo_Lord]

Nerfing the GI again is stupid. Overpowered in my opinion means something that the average player can use that will make the game a lot easier for them. This will in turn make the overpowered something be used more than anything else. For an example of this look at the overpowered guns in Call of Duty. They are easier to use than other weapons and therefore are used more often.

The geth infiltrator is amazingly strong in the hands of a good player but not very good when used by a average player. If the GI was so overpowered the usage statistics would show the GI being used at a much higher percentage than anything else. If Bioware released these statistics I would honestly be surprised if the GI was near the top for gold/platinum. You have to have really good stick skills and situational awareness in order to be good with the GI because you'll die so easily.

[Optimistman]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Optimistman wrote...

Geth infiltrator doesn't need rebalancing. With absolute fragileness comes great power.

Besides, a game i was in not too long ago: Two geth infiltrators (both with pirahnas, one had his at X) were in my lobby. Outscored them at the end of the game. Not saying which character i was using as that will only get them nerfed faster. But yeah without mods to back them up, geth are garbage in the wrong hands. Just like salarians.

I can outscore bad players with any class and loadout in the game as long as they're bad enough. That anecdote proves nothing.

Also, the GI is not fragile whatsoever, unless one is running into crowds and meleeing them like an idiot. One lone Assault Trooper outside of your heavy melee stagger AOE will ruin your day. But since you have a wallhack, smokehack, teammemberhack and visualeffectshack, that really should not be happening.

1.  Isn't the entire point of your arguement is that this class could be easily used by bad players because the setup is so powerful? So how does them being bad players or not factor in anything? If a class takes any amount of skill to use, what's overpowered about it?...........

2. Yes the fact that one lone assault trooper can ruin my day is the thing. One mistake with this guy=death. That's an issue. If you can't see that, then an LOL to you buddy.  Your basing that setups and characters have a constant supply of equipment has no vailidity. What happens when you are out of cyclonic modulator 4 or 3s or armor piercing 4 or 3s (which don't drop that oftenly in the first place)?

Exactly, don't call a class overpowered because of an obviously overpowered weapon. Nerf the pirahna, good. It needs to be nerfed, it shouldn't be god-mode in the hands of every character that holds it.

[Optimistman]

nukembaby wrote...

Optimistman wrote...

Ryan_H wrote...

The OP + BW listening to the likes of him is the reason I won't be coming back to ME3 after Borderlands 2 comes out.

This. With the addition of stupid glitches.

And yet you both are still here. And playing.

I dare you to quit right now. Yeah, I didn't think so.

If you could read kid, which i am highly doubting right now, we said when borderland 2 comes.

Only reason i am attached to this game is because it is one of the only horde mode co-op type games i have right now. And god help it if i had an xbox and gears of war right now. I'm going to throw this **** right back to gamestop where it belongs.

[Gockey]

nukembaby wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Lol we've been telling you why.  Because you have no evidence.  

Here let me turn your most recent absurd statement on its head for you:

"The OP says this is a good idea without giving any reason why-- he must be butt-hurt over these characters putting more points on the board than him and posting to compensate for his lack of game skills."

Get it yet?

Here is sigma_draconis's reply, the only intelligent counter-argument to my OP so far in a sea of mindless bandwagon no-independent-thought insulting--and to which I offered a rebuttal. You all can learn something from him,

I don't personally play the GI anymore. People get annoyed with me when I score >150k and nobody else gets to kill anything. I prefer the QMI when I do play an infiltrator. It's easier to hold back on him since he has limited grenades.

sigma_draconis wrote...

HM without the ability to Cloak makes him a glorified soldier with extra squishiness. Cloak without HM makes him completely inferior to the SI who has both Cloak and Proxy and can ED during cloak. The problem with this suggestion is that it doesn't just nerf the GI but will make it completely obsolete when we have the SI and Destroyer.

*Yawn*

Strawman argument.  You have no evidence so your claim is invalid.  Your entitled to your opinion that the GI needs a nerf.  I'm entitled to knowing your wrong.   :innocent:


It's nice that sigma takes your opinion as somethign worth arguing about.  Me?  I just keep asking, whats your evidence?  You have none.

[Eckswhyzed]

I don't mind a GI nerf.....but your suggestion would require a complete rework of hunter mode. It would also make the GI more durable.

Also, the GI is not very squishy at all IF you equip Cyclinic Modulators due to his bery high base shields.

[ryoldschool]

holdenagincourt wrote...


I can outscore bad players with any class and loadout in the game as long as they're bad enough. 

Sorry, but his quote is priceless, made me spit out my soda.  Its a true statement, but funny none the less.

[Ramsutin]

FU and all who want to "balance" the only high dps character in the game.

Mandalore313 wrote...

Mr Bean would like to have a word with you.

[holdenagincourt]

Optimistman wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

Optimistman wrote...

Geth infiltrator doesn't need rebalancing. With absolute fragileness comes great power.

Besides, a game i was in not too long ago: Two geth infiltrators (both with pirahnas, one had his at X) were in my lobby. Outscored them at the end of the game. Not saying which character i was using as that will only get them nerfed faster. But yeah without mods to back them up, geth are garbage in the wrong hands. Just like salarians.

I can outscore bad players with any class and loadout in the game as long as they're bad enough. That anecdote proves nothing.

Also, the GI is not fragile whatsoever, unless one is running into crowds and meleeing them like an idiot. One lone Assault Trooper outside of your heavy melee stagger AOE will ruin your day. But since you have a wallhack, smokehack, teammemberhack and visualeffectshack, that really should not be happening.

1.  Isn't the entire point of your arguement is that this class could be easily used by bad players because the setup is so powerful? So how does them being bad players or not factor in anything? If a class takes any amount of skill to use, what's overpowered about it?...........

2. Yes the fact that one lone assault trooper can ruin my day is the thing. One mistake with this guy=death. That's an issue. If you can't see that, then an LOL to you buddy.  Your basing that setups and characters have a constant supply of equipment has no vailidity. What happens when you are out of cyclonic modulator 4 or 3s or armor piercing 4 or 3s (which don't drop that oftenly in the first place)?

Exactly, don't call a class overpowered because of an obviously overpowered weapon. Nerf the pirahna, good. It needs to be nerfed, it shouldn't be god-mode in the hands of every character that holds it.

I never claimed that the GI is a silver bullet that will transform a scrub into a gold- or platinum-worthy player. That would make...literally no sense. The fundamental issue with the GI is that he excels at every aspect of the game while revealing no disadvantages, including no survivability disadvantage relative to almost every other character (only the tankiest of tanks challenge his command here); at the same time, he distorts the balancing of weapons, maps, enemy factions, difficulty levels and other characters because of the way he stacks bonus after bonus on top of each other.

Do you understand that Hunter Mode allows you to perceive, predict and plan for every situation in a match? Especially when in combination with even a token understanding of enemy AI (which is not terribly complex), you have superior survivability to almost all other characters because you can avoid taking fire in the first place, i.e. you should not be having to rely on your shields (which are, btw, not bad in Hunter Mode. Try playing a Drell Vanguard) because you should not be consistently drawing damage. You should never get downed by a lone Assault Trooper in the scenario I brought up because you would have seen him hanging out outside of your prospective heavy melee radius/behind cover. Other characters do not have this same luxury; they frequently have to enter unknown situations with only the knowledge of enemy spawn points and sound perception. By the way, I didn't mention Cyclonic Modulators or other equipment in my argument.

It's interesting that you bring up the Piranha, because it's just the latest in a long string of weapons that have fallen victim to the GI's incredible distortion of the metagame. While the Piranha should be toned down a bit on every character, it cannot be brought into line on the GI (barring changes to the GI itself) without making it lackluster on most others and thus provoking yet another nerf QQ ****storm with which we're all familiar.

[MChang1984]

nukembaby wrote...

After reading some threads about it today, it occurs to me that a simple way to fix the GI is to make it so that HM and TC cannot be simultaneously active--in other words, make HM a cooldown power that behaves like TC. For example, while in HM, triggering TC would break HM but its effects would last 1.5 seconds afterwards. By the same token, while in TC, triggering HM would break TC as other powers do now. HM should also be made to have a long duration similar to annihilation field.

There will still be the possibility of stacking HM + TC, but not HM + TC + prox mine. Persistent wallhack is reduced somewhat as well. Furthermore, the Geth Engineer shouldn't be too adversely affected (he can still fire overload during HM but only once per HM).

You sir are a moron. Hunter Mode has synergy with Tactical cloak and was  meant to be thatt way since day one.

[Immortal Strife]

The GI is a weapon buffing platform by design; a nerf is not going to change that. He will always be the best at boosting weapons because of PM, HM, and TC. Anymore nerfs and there will be more collateral damage to either infiltrators, the GE, or the TSol. A patch nerf is illogical and a waste of resources IMO. Let the GI do what he is suppost to do-buff weapons.

[Vault Boy X360]

After the super nerf to TC, there are significantly less infiltrators, and even less good ones. Now, I know the GI is pretty damn good, but so are a lot of classes like the destroyer or the demolisher or SI (which I happen to like better). Without these great characters it would be much harder for the PUG'er like me to complete any kind of Gold or Platinum match because you know what, half the people who play those characters suck and there are significantly more that just suck in general. Just because you see a character alot doesn't mean the people playing are good with it. Most of the time I play with PUG's, the people playing on those good characters are the ones dieing. When there are three GI's in a Gold match and me as a Human Soldier, and I top the scoreboard something's just wrong. So yes it can be awesome, but the people who play it suck so it doesn't matter. (not saying I'm awesome either)

[Optimistman]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Optimistman wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

Optimistman wrote...

Geth infiltrator doesn't need rebalancing. With absolute fragileness comes great power.

Besides, a game i was in not too long ago: Two geth infiltrators (both with pirahnas, one had his at X) were in my lobby. Outscored them at the end of the game. Not saying which character i was using as that will only get them nerfed faster. But yeah without mods to back them up, geth are garbage in the wrong hands. Just like salarians.

I can outscore bad players with any class and loadout in the game as long as they're bad enough. That anecdote proves nothing.

Also, the GI is not fragile whatsoever, unless one is running into crowds and meleeing them like an idiot. One lone Assault Trooper outside of your heavy melee stagger AOE will ruin your day. But since you have a wallhack, smokehack, teammemberhack and visualeffectshack, that really should not be happening.

1.  Isn't the entire point of your arguement is that this class could be easily used by bad players because the setup is so powerful? So how does them being bad players or not factor in anything? If a class takes any amount of skill to use, what's overpowered about it?...........

2. Yes the fact that one lone assault trooper can ruin my day is the thing. One mistake with this guy=death. That's an issue. If you can't see that, then an LOL to you buddy.  Your basing that setups and characters have a constant supply of equipment has no vailidity. What happens when you are out of cyclonic modulator 4 or 3s or armor piercing 4 or 3s (which don't drop that oftenly in the first place)?

Exactly, don't call a class overpowered because of an obviously overpowered weapon. Nerf the pirahna, good. It needs to be nerfed, it shouldn't be god-mode in the hands of every character that holds it.

I never claimed that the GI is a silver bullet that will transform a scrub into a gold- or platinum-worthy player. That would make...literally no sense. The fundamental issue with the GI is that he excels at every aspect of the game while revealing no disadvantages, including no survivability disadvantage relative to almost every other character (only the tankiest of tanks challenge his command here); at the same time, he distorts the balancing of weapons, maps, enemy factions, difficulty levels and other characters because of the way he stacks bonus after bonus on top of each other.

Do you understand that Hunter Mode allows you to perceive, predict and plan for every situation in a match? Especially when in combination with even a token understanding of enemy AI (which is not terribly complex), you have superior survivability to almost all other characters because you can avoid taking fire in the first place, i.e. you should not be having to rely on your shields (which are, btw, not bad in Hunter Mode. Try playing a Drell Vanguard) because you should not be consistently drawing damage. You should never get downed by a lone Assault Trooper in the scenario I brought up because you would have seen him hanging out outside of your prospective heavy melee radius/behind cover. Other characters do not have this same luxury; they frequently have to enter unknown situations with only the knowledge of enemy spawn points and sound perception. By the way, I didn't mention Cyclonic Modulators or other equipment in my argument.

It's interesting that you bring up the Piranha, because it's just the latest in a long string of weapons that have fallen victim to the GI's incredible distortion of the metagame. While the Piranha should be toned down a bit on every character, it cannot be brought into line on the GI (barring changes to the GI itself) without making it lackluster on most others and thus provoking yet another nerf QQ ****storm with which we're all familiar.

Sadly enough, i completely agree with you. I just  want the infiltrator to stay the same for the sake of the geth engineer. If they nerf hunter mode on the geth engineer, he's obsolete. I'm sorry. It's just another aspect of this game that will be ruined and in result narrowing even more of the engineer classes that i use.

Oh borderlands 2, where art thou.....................

Modifié par Optimistman, 06 août 2012 - 06:30 .

[nukembaby]

sigma_draconis wrote...

[It sounds like an interesting suggestion on paper, but in reality it's just going to force people to use a very limited amount of builds. Thing is, no one's ever going to sacrifice damage bonuses (as evidence by the fact that everyone still don't take Duration even after the nerf). So whereas before people would either go with 5 on Cloak for extra Fitness or take the rank 6 Bonus Power so they can Proxy Mine safely, now people are forced to take the rank 6 Bonus if they want to be able to do max damage.

Well yes that's the point; I'm not arguing for a buff here afterall. You need to spend those points on TC rank 6 now. You can still safely proxy mine (TC + proxy mine), but you can't do all three (HM + TC + proxy) safely. So whereas before you could pick and choose how you want to play in the build phase, now you get to choose on the fly in the game.

Regarding the implementation, I can tell you now it WON'T be implemented. Nerfing the piranha is just so much easier. Oh well, I tried.

[Black Phantom]

This topic is just as retarded as I imagined it would be.