88 réponses à ce sujet

[orpheus333]

Its just a throwback to D&D class based systems. You could remove the classes all together and have a similar playing experiance. I've wondered for a long time why games still continue with classes as most modern PnP games (GURPS, Wushu, WoD) use a mainly open skill talent based system. CRPGs just haven't cought up it seems.

[Talic12133]

andyr1986 wrote...

Its just a throwback to D&D class based systems. You could remove the classes all together and have a similar playing experiance. I've wondered for a long time why games still continue with classes as most modern PnP games (GURPS, Wushu, WoD) use a mainly open skill talent based system. CRPGs just haven't cought up it seems.

Maybe the game devs don't want to update? <_<

[Gracchio]

Hmm lets say you have a mage with frostspells in your party and a 2h warrior?



Freeze chest, break chest without harming contents.



And bam, there's your loot.

[deathwing200]

Why does my mage have to enter the building containing bad guys? Why can't he conflagrate the wooden building along with entire town with inferno?

Modifié par deathwing200, 21 décembre 2009 - 10:38 .

[hangmans tree]

to check wether they are bad guys or simply immigrants in strange outfits

[Shady314]

Only rogues have the pick lock talent.... you seem to get it.

[Gracchio]

hangmans tree wrote...

to check wether they are bad guys or simply immigrants in strange outfits

The difference?

[hangmans tree]

burning down the first group may be punishable by law, as most of the time they are the ones making the law

[Jonfon_ire]

andyr1986 wrote...

Its just a throwback to D&D class based systems. You could remove the classes all together and have a similar playing experiance. I've wondered for a long time why games still continue with classes as most modern PnP games (GURPS, Wushu, WoD) use a mainly open skill talent based system. CRPGs just haven't cought up it seems.

To prevent rampant MinMaxing. With PnP campaigns you've a DM who will either get you to rein it in a bit, or tweak his adventure to compensate (ie raising the difficulty to match the MinMaxed characters, try and close any exploitative loopholes or just plain doing something horrible to someone constantly exploiting a weakness in the system).

Modifié par Jonfon_ire, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[Micon2]

I enjoyed the rogue, and the pooch and the finish with Alastair rather than that **** that was a sick ending.

I missed heaps but I did step in all areas but kept getting spun around , lost track of where I had just come from and spent a lot of time backtracking frustratingly so, hard to see on the map.

I read a post about forgetting chests etc as they have no major plot item and never worried the first time and reached a point where I just started again and this time as a rogue was much more enjoyable.

[bzombo]

i understand what everyone is saying, but let's look at it from a different point of view. in normal society, you have people who are thieves. they are better at picking open car doors, breaking into homes without tripping the burglar alarm, and so on. this is basically what a rogue is. rogues sneak around, breaks into things, and steal from people. take joe schmo and a skilled car thief. who do you think is better at breaking into a car, starting it up without the key, and driving away? a "knock" spell for mages like in d&d would be nice and make sense at least. smashing a chest should destroy most if not all of the contents, so what gain is there by allowing it? so, i agree a mage should have a spell to unlock, but warriors should be sol. in theory, every class could technically learn every other spell/skill/ability of another class, but that, to me, ruins things. people do specialize in real life in certain things, so each class should specialize in talents as well. what's next? rogue shield bashing? there has to be a point where you just say no.

[Legacy_QuEsT]

bzombo wrote...

i understand what everyone is saying, but let's look at it from a different point of view. in normal society, you have people who are thieves. they are better at picking open car doors, breaking into homes without tripping the burglar alarm, and so on. this is basically what a rogue is. rogues sneak around, breaks into things, and steal from people. take joe schmo and a skilled car thief. who do you think is better at breaking into a car, starting it up without the key, and driving away? a "knock" spell for mages like in d&d would be nice and make sense at least. smashing a chest should destroy most if not all of the contents, so what gain is there by allowing it? so, i agree a mage should have a spell to unlock, but warriors should be sol. in theory, every class could technically learn every other spell/skill/ability of another class, but that, to me, ruins things. people do specialize in real life in certain things, so each class should specialize in talents as well. what's next? rogue shield bashing? there has to be a point where you just say no.

[bzombo]

andyr1986 wrote...

Its just a throwback to D&D class based systems. You could remove the classes all together and have a similar playing experiance. I've wondered for a long time why games still continue with classes as most modern PnP games (GURPS, Wushu, WoD) use a mainly open skill talent based system. CRPGs just haven't cought up it seems.

open skills have drawbacks too. everyone is just one big mush of maxed out bulldozers. you should have to choose based on what weaknesses you're willing to deal with. warriors have no spells, mages are weak in melee combat/have low health, and rogues are not good in melee combat, GENERALLY speaking.

[Bibdy]

Picking locks and removing traps are some of the defining qualities of the fantasy RPG rogue. Take those away and he's just a dude wearing barely any armour that likes staring at men's butts before attacking.

I'm fine with sacrificing a little common sense for a class having a well-defined role and purpose in a video game.

Modifié par Bibdy, 21 décembre 2009 - 05:09 .

[T0paze]

They had a purpose.



If anyone else could open locks (especially mages) people would say that mages were overpowered. Wait, they already say that... OK, they would scream that mages were ovepowered.

[bzombo]

T0paze wrote...

They had a purpose.

If anyone else could open locks (especially mages) people would say that mages were overpowered. Wait, they already say that... OK, they would scream that mages were ovepowered.

very true. plus, i think there also has to be some common sense. sure, some warrior dude can sit there a pick the lock. it just might take 7 or 8 hours, which by then the circle tower would be destroyed, or the darkspawn horde will overrun everyone, or any of a number of plot points throughout the game would be rendered useless if we have to wait for lothar the clumsy to finish picking the lock when he's never picked locks before. or he smashes the chest and then a bunch of formerly useful potions are obliterated.

[MorseDenizen]

bzombo wrote...

i understand what everyone is saying, but let's look at it from a different point of view. in normal society, you have people who are thieves. they are better at picking open car doors, breaking into homes without tripping the burglar alarm, and so on. this is basically what a rogue is.

I agree with you upto a point, but i would expect a warrior who spends his/her life crawling around dungeons to pick up some for of skill in lockpicking, but not to specialise if you know what i mean, I would have appreciated some form of lockpick knowledge among warriors, to a sort of mid level and a particular specialisation in in for rogues, then yes, a knock spell for mages but with some form of limitation so that there was the added advantage of having a rogue skilled in advanced lockpicking in the party

[F-C]

i believe a warrior should be able to bash open doors and chests, or a mage could blast it open, but suffer penalties like breaking the objects inside, alerting and drawing the aggro of all enemies and guards in the area, setting off a nasty trap that can kill you, and various things like that to where it would still be beneficial to take a rogue along.

with a rogue you wouldnt risk randomly losing good loot or getting attacked when you arnt really prepared, or setting off some nasty trap that can insta-kill you... things like that.

some things in this game just dont make any sense though.

another example is anyone can be a top level artisan at making traps, but only a rogue can disarm them. thats just logically impossible.

Modifié par F-C, 21 décembre 2009 - 05:41 .

[Bibdy]

The advantage of a Rogue is that you can't lock pick AT ALL without one. Why do the other types need to have a weaker version of lock picking (Knock/Bash)? What good does that do? Either way you're going to run into a lot of chests you can't open without a Rogue there, and lots of missed vendor trash. Seems like a bunch of development work for no tangible benefit other than adding a little common sense to the mix and satisfy the kinds of people who go out of their way to prove why Warp Travel wouldn't work in the Star Trek universe.

[saxo_g]

Bibdy wrote...

Picking locks and removing traps are some of the defining qualities of the fantasy RPG rogue. Take those away and he's just a dude wearing barely any armour that likes staring at men's butts before attacking.

I nominate that last sentence as class-specific tagline of the month for December. :happy:

[Bibdy]

'Scantily-clad rear-assault warrior' doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

[saxo_g]

No, but it does evoke a very different sort of imagery than "rogue."

[bzombo]

F-C wrote...

i believe a warrior should be able to bash open doors and chests, or a mage could blast it open, but suffer penalties like breaking the objects inside, alerting and drawing the aggro of all enemies and guards in the area, setting off a nasty trap that can kill you, and various things like that to where it would still be beneficial to take a rogue along.

with a rogue you wouldnt risk randomly losing good loot or getting attacked when you arnt really prepared, or setting off some nasty trap that can insta-kill you... things like that.

some things in this game just dont make any sense though.

another example is anyone can be a top level artisan at making traps, but only a rogue can disarm them. thats just logically impossible.

well, anyone can go read up on how to make a simple explosive, but does that mean they have the expertise to examine it and determine how to deactivate it? same principle.

[Bibdy]

saxo_g wrote...

No, but it does evoke a very different sort of imagery than "rogue."

I dunno. Rogues do tend to be describes using nouns and adjectives like 'scoundrel', 'vagrant', 'unprincipled' and 'mischievous'

[Tereval]

The lock feature did get ridiculous as the game went on. Chest after chest locked everywhere you go. The loot in them was almost always vendor trash, but completionists had to keep at it. Future DA games the problem would be easily solved iby an additional companion slot and fewer of these chests. Or balance it out make most chests openable by force but a select few only by a rogue and put something decent in them.