235 réponses à ce sujet

[Endorlf]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No. Advance indoctrination does that but it has to be issued to advance first by the indoctor. Low level of indoctriantion keeps the mind of an organic full functional. The low level of incotriantion can be done indefinatly to an organics mind with out destroying it.

Codex > Reapers: Indoctrination

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher
mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering
animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days
or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for
months or years.

And the Collectors? How did they manage to survive?

Here. Copy and paste is wonky on BSN.

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

Modifié par Endorlf, 06 août 2012 - 07:57 .

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No. Advance indoctrination does that but it has to be issued to advance first by the indoctor. Low level of indoctriantion keeps the mind of an organic full functional. The low level of incotriantion can be done indefinatly to an organics mind with out destroying it.

Codex > Reapers: Indoctrination

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher
mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering
animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days
or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for
months or years.

 "Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years."
 

So when does Saren start to act Brain dead? He was indoctrianted for over 20 years.
Then theirs TIM.
Both TIM and Saren were in the process of indoctrination form the first contact war....

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 août 2012 - 07:56 .

[Chashan]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...




Vigil's dialogue in ME1 refers to the ultimate fate of the indoctrinated once Reapers move on.

....Why didn't Virgil tell us about the collectors? Or the protheans being turned to destroyers?

<No Data Available>

On his part, anyway I would guess, he is severely damaged after all. And since he superficially covered those as of then not yet sketched out indoctrinated forces with his more general remarks on how things went south for the Prothean Empire.

And the Collectors? How did they manage to survive?

They were conveniently reworked, as mentioned by Mr Solus. Steadily "replaced by tech", as he puts it.

Modifié par Chashan, 06 août 2012 - 07:57 .

[Fawx9]

Rubios wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
Pretty sure anyone inlvolved with WW2 and was part of the atrocities served harsh penalties for war crimes.

Not really.

Fawx9 wrote...
I don't think Reapers doing community service is equivalent to that, do you? 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Marshall_Plan (US government was already indoctrinated at this point)

I have further evidence:


See the smiles? That's an obvious brainwash just like in the Synthesis cutscenes.

IT is canon now, deal with it Bioware 

So, I'm arguing with a troll thats trying to ignore that war crime trials that happened, and instead posts pictures without knowing the history behind them.

Here's a hint, the US supplied that aid because of something called the Soviet Union, and that not everyone was participating under free will. Free will that the Reapers have always had.

[The Angry One]

Endorlf wrote...

And the Collectors? How did they manage to survive?

They are husks, with no true minds of their own augmented with genetic manipulation and tech.

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

So when does Saren start to act Brain dead? He was indoctrianted for over 20 years.
Then theirs TIM.
Both TIM and Saren were in the process of indoctrination form the first contact war....

In the process. But not totally indoctrinated. Saren was actively resisting total indoctrination right up until your final confrontation.
Are you arguing with the codex now?

[Endorlf]

The Angry One wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

And the Collectors? How did they manage to survive?

They are husks, with no true minds of their own augmented with genetic manipulation and tech.

Isn't that was people are claiming Synthesis does to people?

Modifié par Endorlf, 06 août 2012 - 08:07 .

[dreman9999]

Chashan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...




Vigil's dialogue in ME1 refers to the ultimate fate of the indoctrinated once Reapers move on.

....Why didn't Virgil tell us about the collectors? Or the protheans being turned to destroyers?

<No Data Available>

On his part, anyway I would guess, he is severely damaged after all. And since he superficially covered those as of then not yet sketched out indoctrinated forces with his more general remarks on how things went south for the Prothean Empire.

And the Collectors? How did they manage to survive?

They were conveniently reworked, as mentioned by Mr Solus. Steadily "replaced by tech", as he puts it.

My point. He does not know the fate of the indoctrianted protheans. Using him to say what happen to all indoctrianed forms is baseless.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
....Why didn't Virgil tell us about the collectors? Or the protheans being turned to destroyers?

Because Ilos was cutoff from the outside Galaxy.
I don't know what you mean by that second part though.

[Hackulator]

The Angry One wrote...

And I'm saying that none of these explanations really fit.

Well sure, they'd require more PROOF to be shown to really fit. Kind of like the whole thing about the universe being brainwashed. One of the main themes of ME3 is groups that have been at war coming together, and none of them had to be brainwashed to do it. 

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

So when does Saren start to act Brain dead? He was indoctrianted for over 20 years.
Then theirs TIM.
Both TIM and Saren were in the process of indoctrination form the first contact war....

In the process. But not totally indoctrinated. Saren was actively resisting total indoctrination right up until your final confrontation.
Are you arguing with the codex now?

First of all understand what total indoctrination is...

 

That's it.

Second, being in the processof indoctrination still is indoctrination and it still means the entire effect of itcan still be indefinatly held off.  The reapers can stop it from totaly destroying an organics mind.

[Chashan]

My point. He does not know the fate of the indoctrianted protheans. Using him to say what happen to all indoctrianed forms is baseless.

Not quite, I would go so far as to differentiate Collectors and the zombie-horde of ME3 from what they first had in mind for what "indoctrinated forces" look like going into the series. It is fairly obvious that the whole shock-effect that was used for the huskified creatures came about fairly late in the development cycle... 

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
....Why didn't Virgil tell us about the collectors? Or the protheans being turned to destroyers?

Because Ilos was cutoff from the outside Galaxy.
I don't know what you mean by that second part though.

My point. He does not know the fate of the indoctrianted protheans. Using him to say what happen to all indoctrianed forms is baseless.

[The Angry One]

*facepalms*

Dreman, Husks and indoctrination are not the same thing. You can make Husks without indoctrination.

[Baronesa]

The Angry One wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

And the Collectors? How did they manage to survive?

They are husks, with no true minds of their own augmented with genetic manipulation and tech.

"No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive tract, replaced by tech. No souls... replaced by tech"

[Jackums]

Rubios wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

Because Synthesis being indoctrination is headcanon and headcanons are rarely well thought out.

[dreman9999]

Chashan wrote...

My point. He does not know the fate of the indoctrianted protheans. Using him to say what happen to all indoctrianed forms is baseless.

Not quite, I would go so far as to differentiate Collectors and the zombie-horde of ME3 from what they first had in mind for what "indoctrinated forces" look like going into the series. It is fairly obvious that the whole shock-effect that was used for the huskified creatures came about fairly late in the development cycle... 

The concept of what the reaper were doing to organics were thought up by BW from ME1.  The extentions of that wer first shown in ME2. Remeber, Drew was still the head writer in ME2.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
My point. He does not know the fate of the indoctrianted protheans. Using him to say what happen to all indoctrianed forms is baseless.

Well they obviously didn't stick around, because you know, the Reapers generally don't care about thier huskified mooks.

The Protheans are the special case. Humans were too until that plot line was dropped.

[Baronesa]

Dreman... that is a Husk... that is not indoctrination...

Rana Thanoptis was a victim of indoctrination... she never became a Banshee (Asari's husks)


Please do not be so disingenuous

[AresKeith]

@Dreman9999 did you really just compare husks to indoctrination when Bioware showed how there made in ME1

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

*facepalms*

Dreman, Husks and indoctrination are not the same thing. You can make Husks without indoctrination.

You got it back wards. Huskification is indoctriantion. We have and entore book showing this..
 

We can have indoctriantion with out huskification but huskification is still indoctriantion.

[AresKeith]

Rubios wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...
 
....

I was just trolling at that point, it's sad you can't see it 

but...

Fawx9 wrote...
Free will that the Reapers have always had.

The catalyst disagrees.

and the Leviathan disproves the Starbrat

[Endorlf]

If indoctrination can make people view the Reapers with superstitious awe, then why would people expect their help? It's kinda like evangelical Christians who view God with superstitious awe, but do they expect God to just zap al-Qaeda or the Taliban for them? Yes, I know this analogy is a stretch, but the essence of the argument is the same.

[Ticonderoga117]

The Angry One wrote...

*facepalms*

Dreman, Husks and indoctrination are not the same thing. You can make Husks without indoctrination.

I don't think you can make husks with indoctrination anyway. It only helps getting them to impale themselves.
Barring Synthesis of course, because to hell with conservation of mass and energy, we will make implants appear out of thin f'king air!