235 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

@Dreman9999 did you really just compare husks to indoctrination when Bioware showed how there made in ME1

Read this book.
 

[dreman9999]

Baronesa wrote...

Dreman... that is a Husk... that is not indoctrination...

Rana Thanoptis was a victim of indoctrination... she never became a Banshee (Asari's husks)


Please do not be so disingenuous

Read ME:retribution. Then come back

[Applepie_Svk]

dreman9999 wrote...

First of all understand what total indoctrination is...

 

That's it.

Second, being in the processof indoctrination still is indoctrination and it still means the entire effect of itcan still be indefinatly held off.  The reapers can stop it from totaly destroying an organics mind.

Indoctrination can took weeks, months and not seconds like with Dragon teeths, it´s represion of victim´s mind with Reaper´s goals and not turning people to husks with Reaper implants...
Full indoctrination means to agreed with Reaper agenda - aka Saren, TIM, Kenson after what they switch the sides they saw no other option ...

[Ticonderoga117]

Endorlf wrote...

If indoctrination can make people view the Reapers with superstitious awe, then why would people expect their help? It's kinda like evangelical Christians who view God with superstitious awe, but do they expect God to just zap al-Qaeda or the Taliban for them? Yes, I know this analogy is a stretch, but the essence of the argument is the same.

A bit off topic, but this is why I think the "Heretic Geth" from ME1 and ME2 were indoctrinated. They worshipped the Reapers as gods when machines would be the last thing I think to do that kind of thing.

[Memnon]

Endorlf wrote...

If indoctrination can make people view the Reapers with superstitious awe, then why would people expect their help? It's kinda like evangelical Christians who view God with superstitious awe, but do they expect God to just zap al-Qaeda or the Taliban for them? Yes, I know this analogy is a stretch, but the essence of the argument is the same.

Are you being intentinally obtuse? Read the quote again:

A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe

The Reaper performs the action which triggers the superstitious awe. It is a deliberate action performed by the recipient.

Modifié par Stornskar, 06 août 2012 - 08:10 .

[Baronesa]

Dragon's Teeth


That is impalement... not indoctrination

[saracen16]

Endorlf wrote...

If Synthesis indeed indoctrinates and brainwashes everyone, then do the Reapers even bother rebuilding shattered planets and civilizations? How does that forward their agenda? How does that even forward the Catalyst's agenda?

And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

[dreman9999]

Baronesa wrote...

Dragon's Teeth


That is impalement... not indoctrination

Read ME:retribution. Then come back.

[Applepie_Svk]

saracen16 wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

If Synthesis indeed indoctrinates and brainwashes everyone, then do the Reapers even bother rebuilding shattered planets and civilizations? How does that forward their agenda? How does that even forward the Catalyst's agenda?

And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

He is an AI... tell me another gooby pl0x

[Wayning_Star]

Indoctrination is merely a form of communication with organics from the catalyst and probably it's creator race. They are so old and immence,their http://en.wikipedia....che_(psychology is so intense and absolute, that it's dangerous to even communicate with them. Our brains are just not big enough,physically, to cope with it. We end up succuming to the noise. classic idoctrination (mind control) is merely a byproduct of this, as it became obvious that organics were inferior because of it.

Dumbing down the more the connection was kept open. It's why the talkative reapers were so over bearing, in their speech, were no words that could describe their concepts in organic, or even simple synthetic minds. Just too much data to process.
 
I don't believe that synthesis 'brain washes" as that infers some intent to control, as to trigger a threat response. In that state, it would seem natural competition with assorted races would be somewhat mollified, at least understanding the reasons for such could  be attempted.

The only way we communicate with an angry Grissly bear is to run away..or, well... stuff it. So we're not all that advanced on the 'communication' fronteer. (The Grissly is smarter..) 

Our word for hello."*****" 

Reaper equivalent "***********************************************************************************************************************************
************************************************************************************************************************************"

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 06 août 2012 - 08:13 .

[dreman9999]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

First of all understand what total indoctrination is...

 

That's it.

Second, being in the processof indoctrination still is indoctrination and it still means the entire effect of itcan still be indefinatly held off.  The reapers can stop it from totaly destroying an organics mind.

Indoctrination can took weeks, months and not seconds like with Dragon teeths, it´s represion of victim´s mind with Reaper´s goals and not turning people to husks with Reaper implants...
Full indoctrination means to agreed with Reaper agenda - aka Saren, TIM, Kenson after what they switch the sides they saw no other option ...

1. Dragons teeth don't take second to make a husk.
2. Read ME:retribution then come back.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

@Dreman9999 did you really just compare husks to indoctrination when Bioware showed how there made in ME1

Read this book.
 

you do know that he was alive with Reaper Tech, and not a husk right?

[Endorlf]

The cutscenes are stated to be 200 years or so in the future. I think that was stated by Gamble during a German dev interview. If long-term effects of indoctrination is unsustainable, then how long will the population even last before they are reduced to gibbering animals? How long has it been since Saren was indoctrinated?

Also, dreman, husks and indoctrinated individuals aren't the same.

Modifié par Endorlf, 06 août 2012 - 08:13 .

[Ticonderoga117]

saracen16 wrote...
And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

Yes they are. From ME1 and ME2 they were sentient machine/organic hybrids that killed billions and billions.

In ME3, we find out that the Catalyst purposely went against his creators whims and killed them, everyone else, and then billions upon billions for millions of years.

They. Are. Evil.
And incredibly stupid.

[Chashan]

saracen16 wrote...


And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

Which makes whoever programmed them either a messed-up lunatic or someone who failed to realise the implications of incomplete code at the most critical time.

At any rate, that does not sound too much better to me and still makes Synthesis look ridiculous.

[BatmanPWNS]

I wonder why Javik hasn't jumped off a cliff by now? Maybe his......... BRAINWASHED!

[PrimeOfValor]

MegaSovereign wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

no one asked for there DNA to be rewritten and I doubt anyone even wanted that, then all of a sudden there all happy, thats not right

There could be off-screen skepticism to the event.

Bioware just wanted to make every ending seem happy. It's the same reason why Bioware didn't show the Geth/EDI dying in the Destroy ending.

And there is no dark foreshadowing of synthetics killing organics in the future in the destroy ending.

I think that the syntheitics can rebuilt and provided if shepard made the quarians made peace with the geth (the galaxy will learn from this lesson) then synthetics will have no reason to rebel or fight back.

[warriorN7]

I saw no evidence or even hints at brain washing in the syntheses ending. In the ending I saw everyone behaving normally, they had green eyes but there all acting as one would expect.Take the Normandy crew for example there having a funeral for Shepard.Why would they be doing this if they were now brainwashed by reapers, wouldn't they be busy serving there reaper overlords? 

Modifié par warriorN7, 06 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[dreman9999]

saracen16 wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

If Synthesis indeed indoctrinates and brainwashes everyone, then do the Reapers even bother rebuilding shattered planets and civilizations? How does that forward their agenda? How does that even forward the Catalyst's agenda?

And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

The catalyst is an AI that's only goal is to ensure peace with organic and synthetics. It has not more bases or grounds and will see anyway to achieve it's goals no matter how good or bad we see it to be away to do it's programing. If the catalyst see that mass indoctriantion is a way to do it's programing, it will do it, becuae to ensure pease with organics and synthetics.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Husks can be made from dead people, it's cybernetic augmentation like with frayson but the brain is dead not indoctrinated I'd say. Grayson's brain wasn't dead he was implanted and indoctrinated not huskified.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

Yes they are. From ME1 and ME2 they were sentient machine/organic hybrids that killed billions and billions.

In ME3, we find out that the Catalyst purposely went against his creators whims and killed them, everyone else, and then billions upon billions for millions of years.

They. Are. Evil.
And incredibly stupid.

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Husks can be made from dead people, it's cybernetic augmentation like with frayson but the brain is dead not indoctrinated I'd say. Grayson's brain wasn't dead he was implanted and indoctrinated not huskified.

Husk can be made for living being.s They are not just dead beings.
Grayson was being turned into a husk.

[dreman9999]

warriorN7 wrote...

I saw no evidence or even hints at brain washing in the syntheses ending. In the ending I saw everyone behaving normally, they had green eyes but there all acting as one would expect.Take the Normandy crew for example there having a funeral for Shepard.Why would they be doing this if they were now brainwashed by reapers, wouldn't they be busy serving there reaper overlords? 

Understand how the catalyst thinks and you'll understand why people think synthesis is mass indoctriantion. If every one is indoctrianted, no one would know it and there would be no signs of it.