235 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

1. Goo-ing sentient beings into paste is NOT preserving. That's an outright lie GlowBrat tells.
2. They were never programmed to do this.

EVIL.

[Baronesa]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

They are liquifying people...

1.- They claim they are preserving organics... you have no proof that they ACTUALLY do. It is their baseless CLAIM

2.- They are AI... or as the Catalyst put it, beyond a mere AI

They are indeed evil.. they torture, kill and ravages everything in their path to accomplish THIR OWN GOAL, regardless of what any other sentient being may think about it.

[Wayning_Star]

bigmass41 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

no one asked for there DNA to be rewritten and I doubt anyone even wanted that, then all of a sudden there all happy, thats not right

There could be off-screen skepticism to the event.

Bioware just wanted to make every ending seem happy. It's the same reason why Bioware didn't show the Geth/EDI dying in the Destroy ending.

And there is no dark foreshadowing of synthetics killing organics in the future in the destroy ending.

I think that the syntheitics can rebuilt and provided if shepard made the quarians made peace with the geth (the galaxy will learn from this lesson) then synthetics will have no reason to rebel or fight back.

figure the geth will finish their space condo and head out as one race to explore the outer regions of space. Where to contemplate 'existence'. They got all sapient since Legion formed their conscience. Synthesis may include for them a touch of organics to contemplate, expand horizons. Understand their creators 'function' in relation to Geth 'creation'.

[Endorlf]

You guys are getting off topic...

This is a discussion of whether Synthesis brainwashes people, not whether or not people are turned into husks...

How do you sustain an indoctrinated population? Some races don't reproduce until they're 20, or even older in the case of Krogans and Asari. Can indoctrination last that long without turning them into "gibbering animals?"

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

@Dreman9999 did you really just compare husks to indoctrination when Bioware showed how there made in ME1

Read this book.
 

you do know that he was alive with Reaper Tech, and not a husk right?

Husk can be make for living beings. He was in the process of indoctination and huskification. Huskification is the process of converting organi tussue into a husk, the orgina tissue can be alive or dead.

[Endorlf]

dreman9999, please take your discussion to another thread. You're getting off topic.

[SpamBot2000]

It's new and improved indoctrination, because the variables... uh... have been changed or something...

[Ticonderoga117]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It's new and improved indoctrination, because the variables... uh... have been changed or something...

"You can't force this change! Until just right now since I said so!"

Whut?

[dreman9999]

Baronesa wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

They are liquifying people...

1.- They claim they are preserving organics... you have no proof that they ACTUALLY do. It is their baseless CLAIM

2.- They are AI... or as the Catalyst put it, beyond a mere AI

They are indeed evil.. they torture, kill and ravages everything in their path to accomplish THIR OWN GOAL, regardless of what any other sentient being may think about it.

1. My proof is legion commet. He clearly state want is done. 
 
2.He says he is an AI. He states just states he and the reapers are tools.

Understand this, if a persons persona can be taken out of their body and put in a new form, but there old body is destoryed, is that killing?

[Wayning_Star]

Baronesa wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

They are liquifying people...

1.- They claim they are preserving organics... you have no proof that they ACTUALLY do. It is their baseless CLAIM

2.- They are AI... or as the Catalyst put it, beyond a mere AI

They are indeed evil.. they torture, kill and ravages everything in their path to accomplish THIR OWN GOAL, regardless of what any other sentient being may think about it.

they are organosythetic constructs. They embody the collective 'soul' of the entire races they are built of. They are ignorant, as AI, not entirely connected with organic life, more machine that contains them, but still 'there'. Unable to make any difference in the given reality the comprehend. As that is all it is, an idea, flirting by in an instant, there being. Until an answer is found, they are trapped in that husk of a reaper. Reapers aren't evil, they're simply containers with an attitude.

[saracen16]

Chashan wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

Which makes whoever programmed them either a messed-up lunatic or someone who failed to realise the implications of incomplete code at the most critical time.

At any rate, that does not sound too much better to me and still makes Synthesis look ridiculous.

I'd go with the latter. The Creators were adamant on finding a solution to the conflict that arises between synthetics and organics, and have even tried a similar solution to synthesis before the Reapers came about. Eventually, the Catalyst was the one who brought up the Reaper solution, and the Creators did not approve, but it was too late for them. The historical precedent doesn't make synthesis look any more or less ridiculous to anyone, but whatever floats your boat...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains.They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

Yes they are. From ME1 and ME2 they were sentient machine/organic hybrids that killed billions and billions.

In ME3, we find out that the Catalyst purposely went against his creators whims and killed them, everyone else, and then billions upon billions for millions of years.

They. Are. Evil.
And incredibly stupid. 

 

Morals do not enter the equation with machines, and thus they do not follow the convention of good or evil. Being "evil" assumes malicious intent and ambition, two things that machines are not guided by because machines are guided only by their programming, and as such do not exceed those parameters. Their internal logic dictates that they will do whatever is necessary regardless of the means. While it sounds Macchiavellian, it doesn't imply that their intent is pure wanton genocide. They want organics and synthetics to survive and chose an extreme solution after having processed thousands of others that have always failed.

Organics are guided by morals and often break them, as well as ambition that allows them to trump the needs of others for the sake of their own. Going by this convention, TIM is evil because he wants humanity to triumph over all regardless of the cost to others and to his own species. Saren is evil because he is looking after himself.

And I'd watch what I'd say about them: that the Reapers were able to adapt to Shepard's foiling of their plans in the first two games and push back the allied forces sufficiently enough that the odds for the allied forces dropped way below their already horrendous chances at defeating the Reapers conventionally. This shows that the Reapers are anything but "stupid". They are adaptable. They are relentless.

[Applepie_Svk]

Baronesa wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

They are liquifying people...

1.- They claim they are preserving organics... you have no proof that they ACTUALLY do. It is their baseless CLAIM

2.- They are AI... or as the Catalyst put it, beyond a mere AI

They are indeed evil.. they torture, kill and ravages everything in their path to accomplish THIR OWN GOAL, regardless of what any other sentient being may think about it.

This is how they preserve us ...

[dreman9999]

Endorlf wrote...

dreman9999, please take your discussion to another thread. You're getting off topic.

It is rellivent. I'm just pointing out what full indoctriantion is so an understanding that a form of indoctrination can be put in an organics mind with out hte mind being destroyed.

[saracen16]

dreman9999 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

If Synthesis indeed indoctrinates and brainwashes everyone, then do the Reapers even bother rebuilding shattered planets and civilizations? How does that forward their agenda? How does that even forward the Catalyst's agenda?

And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

The catalyst is an AI that's only goal is to ensure peace with organic and synthetics. It has not more bases or grounds and will see anyway to achieve it's goals no matter how good or bad we see it to be away to do it's programing. If the catalyst see that mass indoctriantion is a way to do it's programing, it will do it, becuae to ensure pease with organics and synthetics.

Yet there is no proof that Synthesis is indoctrination. Far from it.

[dreman9999]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

They are liquifying people...

1.- They claim they are preserving organics... you have no proof that they ACTUALLY do. It is their baseless CLAIM

2.- They are AI... or as the Catalyst put it, beyond a mere AI

They are indeed evil.. they torture, kill and ravages everything in their path to accomplish THIR OWN GOAL, regardless of what any other sentient being may think about it.

This is how they preserve us ...

Yes, that's the same thing as this.

[dreman9999]

saracen16 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

If Synthesis indeed indoctrinates and brainwashes everyone, then do the Reapers even bother rebuilding shattered planets and civilizations? How does that forward their agenda? How does that even forward the Catalyst's agenda?

And how does Synthesis "brainwash" people? The Reapers and the Catalyst are not classic comic-book villiains. They're not evil. They're doing what they were programmed to do.

The catalyst is an AI that's only goal is to ensure peace with organic and synthetics. It has not more bases or grounds and will see anyway to achieve it's goals no matter how good or bad we see it to be away to do it's programing. If the catalyst see that mass indoctriantion is a way to do it's programing, it will do it, becuae to ensure pease with organics and synthetics.

Yet there is no proof that Synthesis is indoctrination. Far from it.

If everyone is indoctrianted, who would know? There would be no proof. That's how indoctriantion works.

[SpamBot2000]

Sympathy For The Reaper?

Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name.
But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game.

[warriorN7]

dreman9999 wrote...

warriorN7 wrote...

I saw no evidence or even hints at brain washing in the syntheses ending. In the ending I saw everyone behaving normally, they had green eyes but there all acting as one would expect.Take the Normandy crew for example there having a funeral for Shepard.Why would they be doing this if they were now brainwashed by reapers, wouldn't they be busy serving there reaper overlords? 

Understand how the catalyst thinks and you'll understand why people think synthesis is mass indoctriantion. If every one is indoctrianted, no one would know it and there would be no signs of it.

I think the fact that if the reapers had just indoctrinated everyone in the galaxy they would continue there goal of harvesting organics and creating more reapers. Its not like the reapers need slaves. There is evidence of this happening in the ending.   

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It's new and improved indoctrination, because the variables... uh... have been changed or something...

"You can't force this change! Until just right now since I said so!"

Whut?

You just gave it a way to so by adding the crucible to it. You just upgrades the catalyst to have a new way to do it's programing.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Husks can be made from dead people, it's cybernetic augmentation like with frayson but the brain is dead not indoctrinated I'd say. Grayson's brain wasn't dead he was implanted and indoctrinated not huskified.

Husk can be made for living being.s They are not just dead beings.
Grayson was being turned into a husk.

They can be made from living beings, but if the're made from the dead indoctrination is not a requirement, so why would it be when it's done on the living?
Grayson was being turned into an avatar not a husk, something similar to the implanted Saren.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 06 août 2012 - 08:36 .

[NKKKK]

The Angry one says it is right, therefor it is right. Canon be damned. Sexism blah blah

God I got to stop being such a dic k

Modifié par NKKKK, 06 août 2012 - 08:31 .

[AresKeith]

I think dreman is a Reaper apologist

[Applepie_Svk]

AresKeith wrote...

I think dreman is a Reaper apologist

I think he is indoctrinated... or just get too high - I would like to know where he is buying that stuff

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 06 août 2012 - 08:32 .

[MaleQuariansFTW]

Baronesa wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. The perserver organics.

2. They are doing what they are programed to do.

They are not evil.

They are liquifying people...

1.- They claim they are preserving organics... you have no proof that they ACTUALLY do. It is their baseless CLAIM

2.- They are AI... or as the Catalyst put it, beyond a mere AI

They are indeed evil.. they torture, kill and ravages everything in their path to accomplish THIR OWN GOAL, regardless of what any other sentient being may think about it.

Evil is a point of view. To themselves, the Reapers are not evil because they are not liquifying people for the sole purpose of "being evil". The Catalyst isn't plotting some evil plans against organic life "just because it hates us". 

To us they are evil because they threaten to take away what we know as existence, they threaten our lives. So of course we think they're evil.

The Catalyst's logic is flawed, but that doesn't make it evil.