354 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

1) I wasn't sure whether he was trolling or serious before the video
2) I agreed with him on most points in his review, including the forward base and the entire game being a series of goodbyes to characters we've cared about and the result of our choices.
3) I didn't agree about the EC being unneeded, I loved the exposition.
4) I love it how people whine about others bashing their opinion and when someone says "I liked the endings" those very people bash them endlessly.

[AresKeith]

and I like how some people who like the ending always try to play victim when they act the same way

[The_Other_M]

OniTYME wrote...

^^THIS
He loses all credibility with the "HULK speak" and the "ALL CAPS-all-the-f***ing-time" thing.
And the fact the he actually liked the original endings doesn't help either.

[FlamingBoy]

he wrote the whole thing in caps, hard to take him seriously

[Giggles_Manically]

Yep read it again.

The guy must have suffered severe brain damage or something.

[comrade gando]

I swear it seems journalists are going out and calling the ending "good" just for the shock value. It gets them immediately noticed, even when they know it's not good.

[Steve The Seal]

That was terrible... Once I came to the part about the fan base reaction, it simply became too much... He speaks as if he is the voice of reason... Your opinion is wrong, if it is not on line with the Hulks..

"OKAY HULK IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT HULK RARELY DOES... **** THIS GUY. **** HIM IN HIS BIG STUPID FACE. THIS GUY IS PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING WRONG WITH OUR CRITICAL PERSPECTIVE IN SOCIETY. PLUS HE IS WRONG IN JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING HE SAYS. NO RESOLUTION WITH THE CHARACTERS?... UM... THE ENTIRE GAME TAKES 30 HOURS OF CATHARSIS IN SAYING GOODBYE TO CHARACTERS. THERE ARE EVEN FOUR DISTINCT "THIS IS IT, HUH?" MOMENTS WHERE WE SAY GOODBYE TO THEM AND PROCESS WHAT THEIR ENTIRE RELATIONSHIPS HAVE MEANT BEFORE THE FINAL BATTLE, SO... YEAH. HULK HAS NO IDEA WHAT THE **** HE IS TALKING ABOUT. YOU DON'T ACTUALLY NEED AN EPILOGUE TO SHOW WHAT EVERYONE IS DOING FROM THAT POINT ON TO HAVE "RESOLUTION." THAT IS NONSENSE."

You can't decide whether or not people felt resolution with the game. You may have felt that way, so happy ******* great for you! Art/literature/movies/games are subject to interpretation and opinion! It is not like math/science/physics, which isn't (they are bound by rules and laws)!
So as a reply to Hulk, in the same theme: Go **** yourself...

*** EDIT: Hmm read some more of it...

Self-indulgence ruining story-telling? You must be joking... If a movie had a bad ending, it wouldn't have it's ending changed, it would simply be a economic disaster..
The reason why people want the ending change is because the story-telling doesn't incorperate the main genre and themes... 
People wanted the ending changed, because it essentially was sloppy work (mainly because of plotholes, main genre and theme gone completely and narrative) and because the fans has become very attached to the me universe... Even if Hulk felt like the story was pure poetry... Filmmakers/authors wouldn't make a crime fiction and then suddenly decide, that in the last 10 minutes it's no longer a crime fiction, but instead a fantasy! Suddenly unicorns and elves are everywhere and the core of the story is ditched...  

Modifié par Steve The Seal, 07 août 2012 - 11:57 .

[hoodaticus]

AresKeith wrote...

and I like how some people who like the ending always try to play victim when they act the same way

The irony of the victim card is that being pathetic is, for the strong, a turnoff.

[jeffyg93]

I actually enjoyed the read after getting my eyes tuned to the caps. Although I don't necessarily agree with all his points, I enjoyed the new perspective and although I still find the original endings flawed, I now have a little respect for them where all there was before was confusion and indulgence.

[Urdnot Amenark]

Jonata wrote...

 Film Crit Hulk writes some of the most illuminating, deep and compelling articles about movies. He's not only a very professional critic who never try to simply use sarcasm and harsh lines to gain popularity, but actually explain his reasons and he always has something extraordinary to say.

(He does all of this with the gimmick of the Hulk writing a deep cinema article so he use ALL-CAPS and the so-called "Hulk Speak", but believe me, it's worth it.)

Now, this guy does something that 90% of critics actually do not even consider: he take videogames seriously. He wrote beautiful articles on why videogames are not art yet and about the potential they have. And he finally said his own on the MASS EFFECT 3 ENDINGS.

He liked the original endings, even before the Extended Cut. A lot. And I want you to read this article without prejudice, actually trying to believe what he's saying. Because Film Crit Hulk might be damn right, and we might have missed the opportunity to appreciate the very first "Citizen Kane" of the videogames world. 

Please take your time and read this article, you won't regret it.

Film Crit Hulk Smash: A Few Words On The Ending Of MASS EFFECT 3

He talks about art and storytelling like he's an expert and then practically worships one of the oldest cliches in the book: the Adam and Eve parallel. I'd say there's a lot of intellectual ****** here that gets in the way of the message he's trying to send, and his Citizen Kane comparison actually backfires since he doesn't consider a very integral aspect of Mass Effect 3 - the choices - as seriously.

[WindfishDude]

lol why are we still talking about this guy?

Random internet critic with a Hulk gimmick.. And yes, I did read the whole thing and he has got some great arguments. I just disagree with almost all of them, and firmly believe this dude is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and calling it 'brave story-telling'.

lulz

[Geakker]

The majority of these comments here are quite disappointing

For everyone who doesn't take HULK seriously. Please read it (again) and stay impartial until the very end.

There were so many statements in that article I never want to forget. But here is my favourite one for everyone who is not going to read it...


ART ISN'T ABOUT GIVING YOU WHAT YOU WANT, BUT INSTILLING IN YOU THE OPPOSITE. IT'S ABOUT MAKING A STATEMENT THAT WILL HELP YOU BE BETTER AT LIFE, GIVING YOU TRUTHS YOU MAY ACTUALLY NEED, OPENING AVENUES BEYOND YOUR OWN SOLIPSISTIC "CHOICE." TRUE ART NEVER INDULGES.

SO WHERE ON THE SPECTRUM DO YOU WANT TO FALL? IF YOU BELIEVE IN ART THEN YOU HAVE TO START ACTING LIKE IT.


I guess Mass Effect is just one of those things that needs more time to be understood


EDIT: Though this statement sounds a bit too radically:


AND IF YOU THOUGHT IT WAS SOMEHOW WRONG, STUPID OR INCOMPLETE THEN,
WITHOUT REALIZING IT, YOU SPAT IN THE VERY FACE OF THE ARTISTIC PURPOSE.


Unfortunately I can't agree with that one. You still need to question critically what someone is telling you before you take it as granted.

Modifié par Geakker, 08 août 2012 - 12:47 .

[D24O]

If an artist makes a statement that fails to resonate with the audience, have they truly produced a work of art?

[zambot]

D24O wrote...

If an artist makes a statement that fails to resonate with the audience, have they truly produced a work of art?

I think that is getting into what differentiates good art from bad.

[D24O]

But that's the point. People were so turned off by the ending that they refuse to even consider what the statement they were trying to make is. I don't see that as a successful execution of a work of art.

[cdtrk65]

I missed it, what was the statement they were trying to make with the original endings?

[tonnactus]

Geakker wrote...

The majority of these comments here are quite disappointing

For everyone who doesn't take HULK seriously. Please read it (again) and stay impartial until the very end.

There were so many statements in that article I never want to forget. But here is my favourite one for everyone who is not going to read it...


ART ISN'T ABOUT GIVING YOU WHAT YOU WANT, BUT INSTILLING IN YOU THE OPPOSITE. IT'S ABOUT MAKING A STATEMENT THAT WILL HELP YOU BE BETTER AT LIFE, GIVING YOU TRUTHS YOU MAY ACTUALLY NEED, OPENING AVENUES BEYOND YOUR OWN SOLIPSISTIC "CHOICE." TRUE ART NEVER INDULGES.

SO WHERE ON THE SPECTRUM DO YOU WANT TO FALL?

Most people wanted a fulfilled roleplay experience and couldnt care less if Mass Effect 3 is art or not.

Funny enough, by this definition, a real roleplaying game can never be "art" because the player can choose how a story ends.

Modifié par tonnactus, 08 août 2012 - 01:01 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

D24O wrote...

But that's the point. People were so turned off by the ending that they refuse to even consider what the statement they were trying to make is. I don't see that as a successful execution of a work of art.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. There has been plenty of extrapolation (some of it undue) as to what "statement" BioWare attempted to make, it is just that none of it was deemed palatable. For BioWare's own part, I'm not even sure they themselves were certain of what that statement was, and if they were, it wasn't thematically consistent with the rest of the trilogy.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 08 août 2012 - 01:02 .

[D24O]

cdtrk65 wrote...

I missed it, what was the statement they were trying to make with the original endings?

It seemed to me that they were trying to shove a rebirth metaphor with the destruction of the relays, and the edenic symbolism, which I can see playing into his idea of cycles. 

Although now it seems they are shifting away from that, and for the concept of the Catalyst being an omnicent god like, infallible, racist being, to being a flawed product of hubris and irresponsibility. I hope I'm right about that because that would certainly make me appreciate the ending more.


Edit in response to Random Jerkface:  ME, while a fun character study, for lack of a better term, never had that strong of an overarching thematic focus IMO, which is why the statement they may have been going for fell flat, I don't think it was connected very well, which is why what they were trying to say doesn't come across well.

Modifié par D24O, 08 août 2012 - 01:07 .

[Urdnot Amenark]

D24O wrote...

But that's the point. People were so turned off by the ending that they refuse to even consider what the statement they were trying to make is. I don't see that as a successful execution of a work of art.

It's definitely not, which is why art arguments are pretty invalid in this case, although practically every person I've seen respond to the ending controversy tries to use this fiasco to support the idea that game's won't be considered art.

[Kathleen321]

AS AN ENGLISH MAJOR I COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE. THESE ENDINGS WEREN'T FILLED WITH SYMBOLISM. ADDING SOME COLOR AND VAGUENESS DOESN'T EQUAL SYMBOLISM.

[D24O]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

It's definitely not, which is why art arguments are pretty invalid in this case, although practically every person I've seen respond to the ending controversy tries to use this fiasco to support the idea that game's won't be considered art.

So are you saying that games can't be considered art?

[Thore2k10]

Mass Effect 3s ending is not art. If you put nonsense together with nonsense and add sad piano music and a few nice background images it doesnt become art.

There was art in mass effect, but only til Anderson died. After that it was just plain stupid imho!

[D24O]

I wouldn't say it wasn't art, I just feel that it was poorly executed, as well as not using the medium to its fullest potential in contrast to other moments in the game.

[Jonata]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

He talks about art and storytelling like he's an expert and then practically worships one of the oldest cliches in the book: the Adam and Eve parallel. I'd say there's a lot of intellectual ****** here that gets in the way of the message he's trying to send, and his Citizen Kane comparison actually backfires since he doesn't consider a very integral aspect of Mass Effect 3 - the choices - as seriously.

There are several problems in what you're saying, because you do not know some essential thing sabout Film Crit HULK's writing style and why he says what he says. First of all, he is an expert about storytelling: check his 3-articles-long essay about storytelling, called "Storytelling 101"... he stated long ago that he is a professional writer with a lot of experience, and a lot of passion about storytelling.

Also, he is absolutely against cliches and he actually hates "the Journey of the Hero", for example, but for what I can tell, he love a thing that we should all consider more: the power of simple and "on-the-nose" simbolism used well. I wouldn't say he's worshipping the Adam/Eve scene anyway, he just liked it as a part of the ending.

About Citizen Kane, and this is the third time I write this in this thread, he's not talking about Citizen Kane as a movie compared to Mass Effect 3, but he's comparing what Citizen Kane did for the movie industry to what Mass Effect 3 can do to the videogame industry.

Choices do matter: he says that some of the most powerful messages the endings of ME3 is that the player has to chose a path that reflect some aspects of humanity and morality as a whole. 

I feel like a parrot because I'm just saying what he already wrote down there, but really, you just have to read the article. It's all there, just read it carefully before dismissing it.

Modifié par Jonata, 08 août 2012 - 01:35 .