354 réponses à ce sujet

[What a Succulent Ass]

Rxdiaz wrote...

Wow! It all makes sense to me now!

It's all about cycles! I even get DA2 now! It Was about cycles also. That's why you were stuck in 1 city and kept revisiting the same cave over and over and over. It's all about cycles. Unicycles, bicycles, tricycles, motorcycles, wash cycles, spin cycles, dry cycles. Cycles everywhere!

What art! I feel so stupid not seeing this. I even love DA2 now....

OK. This legitimately made me lol.

[mjb203]

Torrible wrote...

mjb203 wrote...

It seems that my theory is proven correct. Whenever a "critic" likes something, I won't, and when they don't like something, I will.

Lesson learned. Don't preorder, and whatever a "critic" says about a game, I'll know that I'll have the opposite opinion.

If this "HULK" wants to be taken seriously, he should stop typing in all caps and put forth coherant reasons as to how he reached his conclusions. People need to stop critiquing video games like movies (and movies like books). The reason symbolism can work in movies (as he mentions) is that they are at most, 3 hours of your time. When you put 100+ hours into a video game, you're going to want a bit more satisfaction and closure at the end.

He did put forth coherent reasons. Maybe your dislike for the ending and negative preconceptions about people typing in all caps prevented you from seeing that. For months now, people here having been bashing the ending and unfairly comparing it to great narratives in classic films and books.  Yet when it comes to symbolism, ME3 is somehow not afforded the same leeway as that of those books and movies? How the hell is Bioware going to satisfy people like you?

The fact that he typed it in all caps makes it incoherent.  It would be like someone typing a critique in l33t.  Yeah, you may be able to read it, but it would be painful.  If you want people to take you seriously, you need to take yourself serious.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I also find it odd that he praises ME3 when he completely demolished Prometheus, especially since the two pieces made the exact same thematic fumbles.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 07 août 2012 - 11:44 .

[clarkusdarkus]

i couldnt read it sorry, did he even play ME1/2 or just ME3?

[Xellith]

I've never seen that film crit HULK guy before. Hopefully I dont see him again because he is an idiot.

I lolled when he said that about 14 lines of dialogue with the supposed leader of an enemy you have been fighting for 3 games and being responsible for the deaths of around/over a quintillion beings were enough to be able to completely trust this enemy and accept the solutions he presents to you - not to mention that his reasoning that is given in those 14 lines of dialogue was supposedly "not a thing you can comprehend".

GJ HULK.

Fail.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Drudez wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

I'm sorry, I just had to stop reading after a while. I can't take this guy, or his opinion seriously

[Ieldra]

This Mr. HULK got it all wrong. He appreciates the "cycles" theme and how it's all going to be the same in the end except for the attitude we bring with us, but for me, it was all about *breaking* the cycles and exactly making things *not* the same any more. At least that's what the games told me right until the ending sequence of ME3, and it's what the EC epilogues tell me as well, so what's the anomaly? The original ending sequence of five minutes, or the rest of the three games I was playing?

The condescending attitude doesn't help his case either. It's a rare thing to see most comments on an article being more civil than the article itself.

No, Mr. HULK. You may be an art critic and may have taken away a message you like from ME3's original ending. But in this case, you're just wrong.

[circe]

One thing I feel like when people argue that video games are art is that they miss an extremely important fact: Video games are video games. They're not paintings or novels or movies. They're video games and you have to judge them as such. This may be overly critical, but I got the sense that he viewed ME3 just as an extremely long cinema with annoying bouts of button mashing in between. He seems to completely miss the total loss of player agency in the ending (arguably in the entire game but that's a different topic). Maybe in a different media this ending might have flown, I don't know. But one thing I do know is that if you're going to make a sudden left turn into WTFs-ville in the last ten minutes of your game, movie, whatever, you damn well have to make sure you do it right.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Holy, ****, Circe?

I call style biting.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Ieldra2 wrote...

This Mr. HULK got it all wrong. He appreciates the "cycles" theme and how it's all going to be the same in the end except for the attitude we bring with us

It's odd that he even extrapolated this, because cyclical nature was never even a theme. Cycles were merely incidental to the antagonists' overarching scheme, and starting with the protheans, it has been all about breaking them.

[Eckswhyzed]

Holy crap.

There exists one person (other than me) that likes the original endings.

I never thought I would see this day.

[mjb203]

circe wrote...

One thing I feel like when people argue that video games are art is that they miss an extremely important fact: Video games are video games. They're not paintings or novels or movies. They're video games and you have to judge them as such. This may be overly critical, but I got the sense that he viewed ME3 just as an extremely long cinema with annoying bouts of button mashing in between. He seems to completely miss the total loss of player agency in the ending (arguably in the entire game but that's a different topic). Maybe in a different media this ending might have flown, I don't know. But one thing I do know is that if you're going to make a sudden left turn into WTFs-ville in the last ten minutes of your game, movie, whatever, you damn well have to make sure you do it right.

This is exactly what I thought when I was going through his article.  It's the same problem when people try to put down entertainment/hour costs of a movie vs. a game.  Different media, different criteria.  Well said!

[o Ventus]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Holy crap.

There exists one person (other than me) that likes the original endings.

I never thought I would see this day.

Don't worry. You're just as wrong as he is.

[wafflez]

COLIN MORIARTY SMASH

[mjb203]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

This Mr. HULK got it all wrong. He appreciates the "cycles" theme and how it's all going to be the same in the end except for the attitude we bring with us

It's odd that he even extrapolated this, because cyclical nature was never even a theme. Cycles were merely incidental to the antagonists' overarching scheme, and starting with the protheans, it has been all about breaking them.

Well, assuming for a moment it even was (which I don't think it was either, but roll with me here a second), over the course of a 100+ hour game trilogy, it wasn't brought up to the forefront very often.  I think only a few lines from Liara in ME1, and a small throwaway conversation with Javik in ME3.  I don't recall anything from ME2 about a cyclical nature, and when it's only brought up through DLC as in ME3, then it doesn't really work.

Personally, if they were going for the whole, "Organics vs. Synthetics" theme, they shouldn't have made the geth/heretic split in ME2.  They should have left the geth as villains, and then I could see this theme working.  As it is now, every synthetic race in the ME universe that has rebelled has done so under the direction of the Reapers, which kind of makes their purpose, well, how to put this nicely... not work in a literary way.

[Eckswhyzed]

o Ventus wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Holy crap.

There exists one person (other than me) that likes the original endings.

I never thought I would see this day.

Don't worry. You're just as wrong as he is.

It's good to know a subjective opinion can be wrong.

[o Ventus]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Holy crap.

There exists one person (other than me) that likes the original endings.

I never thought I would see this day.

Don't worry. You're just as wrong as he is.

It's good to know a subjective opinion can be wrong.

Well, it's difficult to take the opinion seriously when it seems to condone the thematic assassination, character assassination, lore inconsistencies, and break of genre associated with the material.

[Eckswhyzed]

o Ventus wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Holy crap.

There exists one person (other than me) that likes the original endings.

I never thought I would see this day.

Don't worry. You're just as wrong as he is.

It's good to know a subjective opinion can be wrong.

Well, it's difficult to take the opinion seriously when it seems to condone the thematic assassination, character assassination, lore inconsistencies, and break of genre associated with the material.

Do you mind if I change the subject for a bit?

....why are you arguing with me?

I don't visit the story forums often, and this thread caught my eye. I'm not really familiar with the motivations behind the posters here, plus I'm curious and a little bored.

[christrek1982]

so a good story symbolism + fatalism + depression or depressing = a good ending to a story? all I got out of that was him saying how pathetic we ( the once who didn't like the ending) where and how so much better and altruistic the once who like the ending are. but there again I'm just a gamer not an "art critic" so what do I know?

Modifié par christrek1982, 07 août 2012 - 12:19 .

[christrek1982]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Rxdiaz wrote...

Wow! It all makes sense to me now!

It's all about cycles! I even get DA2 now! It Was about cycles also. That's why you were stuck in 1 city and kept revisiting the same cave over and over and over. It's all about cycles. Unicycles, bicycles, tricycles, motorcycles, wash cycles, spin cycles, dry cycles. Cycles everywhere!

What art! I feel so stupid not seeing this. I even love DA2 now....

OK. This legitimately made me lol.

nice one:D

[TheChris92]

Why does he intentionally write with caps?

[Book of Mazarbul]

What a faux-critic Armond-White pretentious jerk. It's never been about cycles, this guy is either in deep, deep, deep denial or is on some hardcore stuff.

[D24O]

Ieldra2 wrote...

This Mr. HULK got it all wrong. He appreciates the "cycles" theme and how it's all going to be the same in the end except for the attitude we bring with us, but for me, it was all about *breaking* the cycles and exactly making things *not* the same any more. At least that's what the games told me right until the ending sequence of ME3, and it's what the EC epilogues tell me as well, so what's the anomaly? The original ending sequence of five minutes, or the rest of the three games I was playing?

QFT. I don't think he played the other games, our cycle has always been the exception, we've always been the ones to break the mold. Plus I disagree with him about the technophobic message of the OE. Regardless of the hamfisted execution (wrecking the relays at the behest of your foe with no good reason or buildup/yet another Eden metaphor, with also no good reason or buildup) don't see why a science fiction story should carry that type of message, at least without establishing somethign about how it corrupts us, but they pretty much dropped the "blinding us to alternatives" line of thought.

[christrek1982]

A0170 wrote...

"HULK KNOW WE SEEMINGLY CAN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT VIDEO GAMES THIS DAY AND AGE WITHOUT GETTING INTO THAT LAME QUESTION "ARE VIDEO GAMES ART?" BUT HULK ARGUE THERE'S DAMN GOOD REASON FOR THAT. IT IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT CONVERSATION TO HAVE ABOUT THE MEDIUM. BECAUSE UNTIL BOTH GAME MAKERS AND AUDIENCES FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT EXACTLY ART IS, AND SPECIFICALLY HOW THEIR MEDIUM CAN BECOME ART, THEN IT CAN'T REALLY HAPPEN."

if ME 3 ending is an example of video game becoming art then I'd rather not I don't think I have my head stuffed far enough up my ass to enjoy that sort of thing and we all know how the industry is for coppying each other.

[Ithurael]

Book of Mazarbul wrote...

What a faux-critic Armond-White pretentious jerk. It's never been about cycles, this guy is either in deep, deep, deep denial or is on some hardcore stuff.

I enjoy his imagination at least. Anyone who can build that big of a headcanon to interpret the endings like that is impressive.

Even my headcanon is not that big - not by a long shot. To compensate for my - apparently - average sized headcanon I make sure to drive a large truck and shout my opinion and story interpretations across this forum.