108 réponses à ce sujet

[GodlessPaladin]

greghorvath wrote...

Nice tl;dr analysis but for the fact that my Eagle 2 is magic on the Fury.

When I tried it on Gold for the first time I had to check if I really was playing Gold. Twice.

Now try the Phalanx X.  Lighter, more accurate, more damaging, less recoil, better against armor, loses less DPS to interspersing fire with power use.  Better yet, use a good light shotgun or SMG.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 août 2012 - 01:13 .

[nickypoo]

greghorvath wrote...

Nice tl;dr analysis but for the fact that my Eagle 2 is magic on the Fury.

When I tried it on Gold for the first time I had to check if I really was playing Gold. Twice.

Using N7 Fury, you are out in the open in the face of enemies where the class synergizes with a full auto SMG/Heavy Pistol better than some of the semi-auto HP's IMHO.

Modifié par nickypoo, 07 août 2012 - 01:12 .

[greghorvath]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Now try the Phalanx X.  Lighter, more accurate, more damaging, less recoil, better against armor, loses less DPS to interspersing fire with power use.  Better yet, use a good light shotgun or SMG.

Automatic vs. Semi-automatic. Pistol vs. Shotgun. A bit like comparing an apple to a pear, don't you think?

[KalilKareem]

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Now try the Phalanx X.  Lighter, more accurate, more damaging, less recoil, better against armor, loses less DPS to interspersing fire with power use.  Better yet, use a good light shotgun or SMG.

Automatic vs. Semi-automatic. Pistol vs. Shotgun. A bit like comparing an apple to a pear, don't you think?

They are all weapons a Fury can equip, hence the comparison is valid.

[greghorvath]

KalilKareem wrote...

They are all weapons a Fury can equip, hence the comparison is valid.

As you wish.

[Dokteur Kill]

greghorvath wrote...
Automatic vs. Semi-automatic.

That's pretty much only relevant for the Predator and arc pistol, since their max rate of fire is difficult to achieve. Getting close to max damage out of a Phalanx isn't a problem on PC at least.

[GodlessPaladin]

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Now try the Phalanx X.  Lighter, more accurate, more damaging, less recoil, better against armor, loses less DPS to interspersing fire with power use.  Better yet, use a good light shotgun or SMG.

Automatic vs. Semi-automatic. Pistol vs. Shotgun. A bit like comparing an apple to a pear, don't you think?

It is not in fact difficult to compare apples and pears, and comparing different types of produce is done regularly in the real world.  It is a very poor analyst indeed that cannot compare dissimilar objects and produce usable results.  Average gamers weigh the pros and cons of things like a pistol's accuracy vs a shotgun's spread every day.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 août 2012 - 01:29 .

[nicethugbert]

I have eagle V! Don't tell me it's anything close to impossible to get eagle X! *sob*

Modifié par nicethugbert, 07 août 2012 - 01:27 .

[BeardyMcGoo]

Great post, GP. I should show it to my friend who keeps insisting that the Eagle is good.

[greghorvath]

My facepalm bows in front of all your arguments...

[Shampoohorn]

Apples and pears are closely related. :o/

I've always thought the Eagle would be better with a smaller clip size and a much higher rate of fire. Have it pack a large punch in a relatively short time frame, perhaps making it the pistol equivalent of the hornet in terms of niche and dps, but with bigger bullets and a longer reload time.

(proud owner of an eagle iv)

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 07 août 2012 - 01:32 .

[rmccowen]

Prawny wrote...

Remove the Acolyte explaination before it gets nerfed! D:

It's not in any danger at all. It's a very good weapon with an extremely narrow niche--a niche that's also occupied by Energy Drain, Overload, and Arc Grenades, which are possessed by about 1/3 of classes.

It's also "heavy" in the sense that most characters won't carry it as a primary weapon, meaning that its (admittedly very low) weight will be applied directly against your cooldown, rather than being offset by your carrying capacity.

The Acolyte is actually a key example of what thoughtful, creative, and balanced weapon design looks like in ME3.

So, @OP... Like the last edition of "Weapon Analysis", this seems pretty much spot-on. In particular, due to its relatively low weight, I've experimented with the Eagle as a replacement for the Phalanx/Carnifex on my casters. I didn't give up easily, but came to the conclusion after five matches that I could deal more damage with a Phalanx. Substantially more, in fact, since the Phalanx has equivalent DPS and is far more accurate.

I was surprised not to see more SMGs in the comparison, actually, since (IMO) the Eagle's closest relative is the Tempest.

Finally, though, it struck me as odd that you described the Hornet as possessing a "slightly larger spread than the Eagle". Both its accuracy stats and my in-game experience indicate that the Hornet's problem is recoil, rather than accuracy; shot grouping is very close, particularly when it's recoil-controlled (on the Turian Sentinel, for instance). I've actually replaced my Carnifex VI with a Hornet X on most of my casters: the Hornet is both lighter and more accurate, and offers much better damage against infantry targets.

In fact, I'd like to see a Weapon Analysis of the Hornet, when you start looking around for more ideas.

[rmccowen]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Now try the Phalanx X.  Lighter, more accurate, more damaging, less recoil, better against armor, loses less DPS to interspersing fire with power use.  Better yet, use a good light shotgun or SMG.

Automatic vs. Semi-automatic. Pistol vs. Shotgun. A bit like comparing an apple to a pear, don't you think?

It is not in fact difficult to compare apples and pears, and comparing different types of produce is done regularly in the real world.  It is a very poor analyst indeed that cannot compare dissimilar objects and produce usable results.  Average gamers weigh the pros and cons of things like a pistol's accuracy vs a shotgun's spread every day.

Indeed, there's an entire field in social science devoted to measuring and comparing people's behavior--and any two randomly sampled people are almost certainly less alike than two tree-growing, sweet, firm fruits.

[icecoldkilla78]

nice analysis but i must disagree. i used to take my carnifex X with me on every mission as my side arm and as my only weapon if i had an adept. but when i got my eagle III i tried it out and it was hard to go back to the carnifex. The paladin's heavy weight and lack of capacity kept it out of the running for me. the phalanx just wasnt strong enough to compete as my side arm or main weapon either.

the eagle's large capacity, rapid rate of fire (for a pistol), and light weight make it a great side arm or main weapon depending on character. it also gives you room for error. with the carnifex you have to be on target with every shot but thats no the case with the eagle.

i have only used the acolyte once and didnt care for it so i cant fairly compare it to the eagale.

i enjoy your analyis of the weapon but in my field trials the eagle is a better weapon than the carnifex for me

[greghorvath]

I consider this discussion over on my part, but I thought I would give you a bit of cultural insight, just for the fun of it. In my first language (of Hungarian) and my cultural background the phrase of comparing apples and pears is considered to represent an oximoron. It does not actually matter how different commodities can or may be compared, or whther those commodities are in some way related, because the phrase is meant to demonstrate the futility of comparing things that are inherently different.

Greg out.

[pmi0126]

Produce arguments aside, this gun sucks for a ur. Its the bane of our commendation packs, a little troll laughing at us when we get IT instead of hurricane, valiant or even crusader upgrades.

Even on a gi (which I have tried) its awful. You can pretty much close your eyes & point at a random gun in your arsenal better than it. It needs a major buff. Passive AP would be the quickest & most painless way I can think of to make it relevant. Additionally, my opinion is to remove itspromotional/ur status altogether & make it a rare.

[cronshaw]

Not sure want the thinking was with this thing to begin with. The SMGs are the real machine pistols. The commendation pistol should have been the paladin.

[GodlessPaladin]

greghorvath wrote...

I consider this discussion over on my part, but I thought I would give you a bit of cultural insight, just for the fun of it. In my first language (of Hungarian) and my cultural background the phrase of comparing apples and pears is considered to represent an oximoron. It does not actually matter how different commodities can or may be compared, or whther those commodities are in some way related, because the phrase is meant to demonstrate the futility of comparing things that are inherently different.

Greg out.

We know.  And the point we're making is that comparing things that are inherently different isn't futile, and indeed is a common and productive occurrence.  In fact, if they weren't inherently different, there wouldn't be much to compare and contrast.  Just because something's an oft-repeated saying doesn't mean that it's not complete BS

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 07 août 2012 - 02:16 .

[Dokteur Kill]

greghorvath wrote...

I consider this discussion over on my part, but I thought I would give you a bit of cultural insight, just for the fun of it. In my first language (of Hungarian) and my cultural background the phrase of comparing apples and pears is considered to represent an oximoron. It does not actually matter how different commodities can or may be compared, or whther those commodities are in some way related, because the phrase is meant to demonstrate the futility of comparing things that are inherently different.

Oh, the expression is used the same way in English (and Norwegian, for that matter). But in this case, you're not comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing Granny Smith to Gravenstein.

[Riot Inducer]

greghorvath wrote...

Slightly off topic but why doesnt pistol ULM work with the magazine upgrade? SMG ULM works with the two kinds of SMG magazine upgrades (that can be applied simultaneously...)

That's because the mod shares the same "slot" on the weapon as the Magazine upgrade, just like you can't use the headshot barrel with the extended barrel or SMG ULM with the SMG recoil comp.

[greghorvath]

GodlessPaladin wrote...
Just because something's an oft-repeated saying doesn't mean that it's not complete BS

You can say that again: I see "balancing" advocated all over the forum...

[greghorvath]

Riot Inducer wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Slightly off topic but why doesnt pistol ULM work with the magazine upgrade? SMG ULM works with the two kinds of SMG magazine upgrades (that can be applied simultaneously...)

That's because the mod shares the same "slot" on the weapon as the Magazine upgrade, just like you can't use the headshot barrel with the extended barrel or SMG ULM with the SMG recoil comp.

Doesnt make much sense if SMGs can use both at the same time...

[Alex_Dur4and]

I agree with OP on the N7 Eagle not "rocking the boat"

I guess we could have called the first version the N7 "Hummingbird"... After the first buff, I called it the N7 "Pigeon" and, after the 2nd buff, I called it, and I am still calling it that way up to now, the N7 "Woodpecker!"

IMO, it's still far from being an N7 "Eagle!!"

[davidman92]

I'm of the opinion that the Eagle should be to the Phalanx what the Harrier is to the Mattock.

[Beerfish]

The Eagle is inferior in a number of ways no doubt about it but I still use it on a few characters. finger fatigue is lessened and I just like fully automatic, it's a psychological boost as well for me even though that doesn't make any sense.