108 réponses à ce sujet

[rmccowen]

pmi0126 wrote...

Even on a gi (which I have tried) its awful. You can pretty much close your eyes & point at a random gun in your arsenal better than it.

I'd go a step further: you can close your eyes and point at a random gun in your manifest, and it will be excellent on the GI... as long as it isn't common or an Eagle. It offers a relatively poor volume of fire (in fact, among fully automatic weapons, the only one with a slower ROF is the Piranha), but it also offers only moderate damage per round. You can't count on headshots to boost its relatively low nominal damage, because the recoil is moderate and accuracy is low.

Additionally, my opinion is to remove itspromotional/ur status altogether & make it a rare.

Again, I'm not sure it's actually good enough. I would rather take a Phalanx X or Tempest X into a match than an Eagle X (and in fact, I'd rather take an Avenger X than an Eagle I). As it is, it deserves to be uncommon, at best.

As to what to do with it, I'd pick an unfilled niche and make it a hyper-accurate machine pistol. Cut the recoil by 60-80%, give it the damage (about a 50% boost) and spread of the Phalanx, and cut the RoF to 250. Its DPS would drop very slightly, but it would become much more useful against armored targets (due to higher damage per round), and more useful against infantry (due to the ability to get headshots at moderate range).

[Cyonan]

rmccowen wrote...
As to what to do with it, I'd pick an unfilled niche and make it a hyper-accurate machine pistol. Cut the recoil by 60-80%, give it the damage (about a 50% boost) and spread of the Phalanx, and cut the RoF to 250. Its DPS would drop very slightly, but it would become much more useful against armored targets (due to higher damage per round), and more useful against infantry (due to the ability to get headshots at moderate range).

That would just turn the gun into a Phalanx.

[Catastrophy]

Please take into account that the Eagle is full auto. The Phalanx e.g. is not.
The issue: Gunners might experience better results with automatic fire than with semi-auto because that extra trigger action brings accuracy concerns for some people.
It also often squeezes out the kill because of the RoF, not that I care much but seeing XY Eagle Geth Prime is quite funny to see.
It also can spread ammo effects quite efficiently. I take it for engineers sometimes.
the Acolyte is an unbeatable sidearm for biotic characters.

[rmccowen]

Cyonan wrote...

rmccowen wrote...
As to what to do with it, I'd pick an unfilled niche and make it a hyper-accurate machine pistol. Cut the recoil by 60-80%, give it the damage (about a 50% boost) and spread of the Phalanx, and cut the RoF to 250. Its DPS would drop very slightly, but it would become much more useful against armored targets (due to higher damage per round), and more useful against infantry (due to the ability to get headshots at moderate range).

That would just turn the gun into a Phalanx.

True! I'm okay with, as someone else said upthread, the idea of Phalanx:Eagle::Mattock:Harrier. But I was essentially just brainstorming.

More generally, though, the problem is that the game has a fairly full lineup of pistols. The Eagle gets around that by essentially being a bad SMG with access to pistol mods--but since the Earth release that's no longer an advantage. Making the Eagle more like an SMG (low damage, high RoF) is going to end in disappointment, because it will be in direct competition with weapons that fulfill the same role with better-suited mods.

The other option, at this very general level, is to make it more like the other pistols--accurate, high damage per round, low RoF. I'm not particularly attached to the idea of making it into a full-auto Phalanx, but that seems like a better idea than making it into a slow Tempest--or, at least, an idea that's more likely to result in an interesting weapon.

[Pedactor]

Another great write-up, Godless.

With that said:

ULM Hurricane/Hornet/Tempest/GPSMG + ULM Carnifex/Paladin/Phalanx/Acolyte

SMG's for Armor with HVB, Pistols for health/shields

The Eagle serves no purpose. A shuriken is better.

[Phaelducan]

Give the Eagle the stagger and ricochet that the Falcon has. Problem solved. It becomes an Adept's best friend.

[davidman92]

I'd give it Phalanx damage, roll back the mag capacity and spare ammo buffs and increase it from Phalanx weight to Carnifex weight. There you go, automatic Phalanx in the same way that the Harrier is an automatic Mattock.

[Cohen le Barbare]

Make the eagle hit as hard as the phalanx and you have what the description tells: an automatic desert eagle.

[Hackulator]

The should just give it natural armor piercing and it would be a good weapon.

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

The Eagle is truly the masochists gun. I love the thing, I use it all the time, but I know it is bad for me.

I just cant help myself!

[megabeast37215]

Another good analysis GP... keep 'em comin'.

If you can... find a way to archive them, in your sig perhaps. The data is just too good not to be referenced quickly.

Modifié par megabeast37215, 07 août 2012 - 04:08 .

[RequiemPrime]

 

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

Make the eagle hit as hard as the phalanx and you have what the description tells: an automatic desert eagle.

 

Exactly. And it would then truly be worthy of its N7 Status

K1LL STREAK wrote...

The Eagle is truly the masochists gun. I love the thing, I use it all the time, but I know it is bad for me.

I just cant help myself!

I do too.  I use it on my Fury.  Not to kill things though, but to debuff.  But if it actually had the Phalanx's power behind it, I would use it on a lot more classes.

[Variasaber]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

Should've just made the Piranha a promotional weapon and the Eagle a normal. I know they have nothing to do with each other but still, nobody would be ****ing and complaining about the Piranha if poeple could only have it at I right now...

Agreed, I've tested it at I and I see no issues with it. Most of the whiners were referring to its capabilities at X... is it really that much better?

[BongMong]

Interestingly, the example of comparing apples and pears is unusual in England (though may be used in English by non-English English speakers, if you see what I mean). We usually use the examples of comparing chalk and cheese or apples and oranges. Apples and pears is instead used as rhyming slang to mean 'stairs'.

So to say 'It's like apples and pears' in England is to rather oddly indicate you are comparing the subject to a flight of stairs.

Isn't language fun? And yes, I have seen a number of flights of stairs in ME3 that have proven more tactically useful than the Eagle.

[Installation17]

Eh, it works in the early days when your armory can fit in a violin case.

[sydsyrious]

Thanks for the analysis GP. Wish BW would do something with this gun so that it would receive the same "love" as the Valiant.....especially since so many of us have been "blessed" with this "reward" for our weekend efforts.

[Haersvaelg]

Lots of good stuff in these. Keep up the excellent work, it is much appreciated.

[greghorvath]

BongMong wrote...

Interestingly, the example of comparing apples and pears is unusual in England (though may be used in English by non-English English speakers, if you see what I mean). We usually use the examples of comparing chalk and cheese or apples and oranges. Apples and pears is instead used as rhyming slang to mean 'stairs'.

So to say 'It's like apples and pears' in England is to rather oddly indicate you are comparing the subject to a flight of stairs.

Isn't language fun? And yes, I have seen a number of flights of stairs in ME3 that have proven more tactically useful than the Eagle.

And sir, you must be the reason why I had to post in this thread! Languages are fun, indeed! Thank you for my daily dose of new infromation.

I actually do know the phrase "apples and oranges" but for some reason I just couldnt think of it. And btw, this subject is about as interesting as a flight of stairs...

[TheKillerAngel]

The Eagle should be something like a Glock 18. I think the magazine capacity should be increased to 32 and the rate of fire tripled to 1200.

[a jaded hater 13]

[quote]Cyonan wrote...

[quote]rmccowen wrote...
As to what to do with it, I'd pick an unfilled niche and make it a hyper-accurate machine pistol. Cut the recoil by 60-80%, give it the damage (about a 50% boost) and spread of the Phalanx, and cut the RoF to 250. Its DPS would drop very slightly, but it would become much more useful against armored targets (due to higher damage per round), and more useful against infantry (due to the ability to get headshots at moderate range).
[/quote]

That would just turn the gun into a Phalanx.
[/quote
Considering the Eagle is an automatic Phalanx, that's okay.

[Quikraptor]

greghorvath wrote...

BongMong wrote...

Interestingly, the example of comparing apples and pears is unusual in England (though may be used in English by non-English English speakers, if you see what I mean). We usually use the examples of comparing chalk and cheese or apples and oranges. Apples and pears is instead used as rhyming slang to mean 'stairs'.

So to say 'It's like apples and pears' in England is to rather oddly indicate you are comparing the subject to a flight of stairs.

Isn't language fun? And yes, I have seen a number of flights of stairs in ME3 that have proven more tactically useful than the Eagle.

And sir, you must be the reason why I had to post in this thread! Languages are fun, indeed! Thank you for my daily dose of new infromation.

I actually do know the phrase "apples and oranges" but for some reason I just couldnt think of it. And btw, this subject is about as interesting as a flight of stairs...

So what brings you here? We haven't seen you make a viable argument yet. I'll make it crystal clear for you: Auto vs Semi-auto is a valid comparison. A LOT of real world weaponry is either too powerful... Know what, here's a good comparison: The M16 versus the AK-47. The AK-47 has too much power to be reliably fired in full auto (And even burst for that matter. They should really just remove the full-auto feature IMHO, but... *Shrug*), but the M16 has less stopping power but fires more accurately. In this case... The Eagle has all the flaws of both weapons (lower damage than the other, less accurate), but the Phalanx has all the pros of both weapons (Higher damage, more accurate).

To spell that out for you. You could pull the trigger a few extra times and get more reliable headshots with the Phalanx at 114.8 damage stock (That's with 0 upgrades, 0 talents, 0 mods.). The eagle only gets 74.9, and it's much more difficult to even land a shot let alone aim for the head. 

This is where I'd add in the math for bonus damages and my favorite quote of "face it...", but I'll let you marinate that one a bit so you can understand why you're wasting your breath.

Also didn't you say you were gonna leave the thread before?

[Thoragoros]

Rifneno wrote...

They seriously should just delete the stats on that piece of crap and start completely fresh. The current concept for it is just useless.

This.

[rmccowen]

Quikraptor wrote...

So what brings you here? We haven't seen you make a viable argument yet...

Also didn't you say you were gonna leave the thread before?

Shooting the breeze about idiomatic language =/= arguing about the Eagle, which is what he clearly was done doing.

I'd never heard "apples and pears" before today; two things that can't be meaningfully compared are always "apples and oranges" in American English.

But that "meaningfully" is the trick, really. It's easy to compare apples and pears and oranges, all together even--as long as you figure out a meaningful thing they're supposed to do or have. You can compare their median size, density, or pH; you can evaluate the typical Kcal or levels of various nutrients present in each; you can determine their relative suitability for fermentation as the basis of cider or spirits. 

What you can't do is say that one is simply better than the other without explaining what they should be good at. Fortunately, all ME3 guns are (at least generally speaking) supposed to be good at killing badguys, and we can compare them on that basis... more or less.

[RobertM525]

Very interesting analysis! (Though shouldn't you refer to it as a "Promotional" rather than an "Ultra Rare"?)

Only criticism I have of the Phalynx as an alternative is that it hurts my mousing hand to use rapid fire semi-automatic weapons like that. (I always just run with a Carnifex anyway, unless I just want something light to slap a +melee damage mod on.)

[Talhydras]

Speaking of deleting the stats and starting afresh-

I'd really rather they based it on the ME2 Phalanx, which I understand to be something a bit like what we got with the ME3 Paladin pistol. Bring in the ME2 Phalanx's laser sight, and then the Eagle will have a unique mechanic to really help it stand out and feel like a reward. I'd prefer especially if it had a high stagger chance but that might be too much to ask for. Perhaps some innate cover pierce in this hypothetical Super Damage incarnation?

Keeping it automatic means that it needs to be buffed to the point where it's a viable alternative to the Hurricane. I don't actually have any good ideas for that beyond tightening the spread and increasing the damage. Pistols are nominally supposed to be low-weight jacks of all trades so giving it slightly worse damage than the hurricane with slightly better unmodded accuracy sounds fine to me as a balance target.