57 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

budzai wrote...

It is just cost them money and work.
It kills the RPing. You play Shepard, Hawke you have no choice.
A bad voice actor totally ruins it.
They should use that money and time to make more dialog options and outcomes.
Anyone agrees?

I've personally learned to make my peace with the voiced protagonist as long as I can have the underlined.

Unfortunately, Bioware hasn't given me any reason to hope that the two can be compatable.

They're throwing away the best their company has to offer (great writing, innovative storytelling) for something glitzy and unsatisfying, but easily marketable to the masses. Like your favorite steak restaurant deciding to only serve chicken nuggets. Wouldn't hear me complaining if both were still on the menu, though. 

[FieryDove]

brushyourteeth wrote...


They're throwing away the best their company has to offer (great writing, innovative storytelling) for something glitzy and unsatisfying, but easily marketable to the masses. Like your favorite steak restaurant deciding to only serve chicken nuggets. Wouldn't hear me complaining if both were still on the menu, though. 

But consumers only buy 1 millon steaks a year. Consumers buy 10 billion chicken nuggets a year. So everything must be nuggetized.

[Atakuma]

brushyourteeth wrote...

budzai wrote...

It is just cost them money and work.
It kills the RPing. You play Shepard, Hawke you have no choice.
A bad voice actor totally ruins it.
They should use that money and time to make more dialog options and outcomes.
Anyone agrees?

I've personally learned to make my peace with the voiced protagonist as long as I can have the underlined.

Unfortunately, Bioware hasn't given me any reason to hope that the two can be compatable.

They're throwing away the best their company has to offer (great writing, innovative storytelling) for something glitzy and unsatisfying, but easily marketable to the masses. Like your favorite steak restaurant deciding to only serve chicken nuggets. Wouldn't hear me complaining if both were still on the menu, though. 

The quality of writing has **** all to do with a voiced protagonist, the same goes for innovative storytelling. 

[Merlex]

EJ107 wrote...

I prefer a voiced protagonist personally. The romantic and dramatic scenes just feel a lot more intense when your character is actually speaking rather than staring blankly at the other characters.

This the only reason i somewhat like the voiced protagonist. Honestly, they could do multiple voiced protagonists, with one voice, if they included a pitch slider. You could change the sound of the voice slightly that way.

My biggest problem with the voice protagonist, is the paraphrasing. It kills the game for me. I'm like "No i meant ..."
S***! RELOAD. I just don't understand the paraphrasing. The writers write the line, the actors say the line, and there are icons that show the tone. Why not show the actual line? But no...SURPRISE.

[SafetyShattered]

All I care about is the amount of dialogue choices you have. I personally prefer the dialogue in DAO because you have a much larger variety of things to say, not because your voiceless. DA2, although it was voiced which I liked, was severely limited in responses. If DA3 could have voice acting for the PC and have the variety of dialogue that DAO had I'd be very happy. I know that'd probably be pretty expensive to do so if having a silent PC means I have more choices in what to say then I'd definately prefer that.

After reading someone else's post I'm reminded of how much I hated how the paraphrasing was done in DA2 as well. My character said things that felt completely different then what I wanted to say. I loved that DAO had the exact line you said. That would be my preference. However if they have to do that dialogue wheel.....again *sigh* then at least make is so that if you kept the cursor over the paraphrased line then the exact line would show up after a certain amount of time. Someone else suggested that a while back and I think it's brilliant. Please.....do that.

Modifié par Shadowfang12, 08 août 2012 - 01:04 .

[brushyourteeth]

FieryDove wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...


They're throwing away the best their company has to offer (great writing, innovative storytelling) for something glitzy and unsatisfying, but easily marketable to the masses. Like your favorite steak restaurant deciding to only serve chicken nuggets. Wouldn't hear me complaining if both were still on the menu, though. 

But consumers only buy 1 millon steaks a year. Consumers buy 10 billion chicken nuggets a year. So everything must be nuggetized.

If I ran a company, you'd be hired. 

[zyntifox]

Merlex wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

I prefer a voiced protagonist personally. The romantic and dramatic scenes just feel a lot more intense when your character is actually speaking rather than staring blankly at the other characters.

This the only reason i somewhat like the voiced protagonist. Honestly, they could do multiple voiced protagonists, with one voice, if they included a pitch slider. You could change the sound of the voice slightly that way.

My biggest problem with the voice protagonist, is the paraphrasing. It kills the game for me. I'm like "No i meant ..."
S***! RELOAD. I just don't understand the paraphrasing. The writers write the line, the actors say the line, and there are icons that show the tone. Why not show the actual line? But no...SURPRISE.

I hear you. I had to have done over a hundred reloads due to the stupid paraphrases. After a while i just gave up and stopped caring.

[KiwiQuiche]

I admit, both Hawke and Lady Hawke's voice actors kinda sucked, which made it hard to replay as they could never keep in character and Lady Hawke sounded like a fancy dandy and Man Hawke's voice was just all over the place.

If they had better VA's I would have liked it more. Also, VA limited dialogue a crapload more. >:I

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

There's still the possibility of a PC mute switch. AFAIK that hasn't been officially stated as not being an option.

[eroeru]

wsandista wrote...

Yes, quite a bit of people on here agree.

Qft.

edit: and sorry for the many replies, I just found so many comments I wanted to address that it would have been awkward to have them all in one post.

Modifié par eroeru, 08 août 2012 - 10:45 .

[eroeru]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Cinematic action game with RPG elements doesn't work well without voiced protagonist and it'll cost more time to develop proper RPG with tons of variables like Skyrim plus it'll affect BioWare's storytelling too.

Have you ever played previous Bioware titles?

edit: sorry, I didn't read "cinematic action game" out of your post initially. With that formulation, I'd agree. But would never consider Bioware's works, fame and legacy (in short, the reasons why they exist) to be connected to that sort of gaming.

Modifié par eroeru, 08 août 2012 - 10:51 .

[eroeru]

glenboy24 wrote...


When animation in games were limited by the tech/software of the time (see: Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate and even KOTOR -limited character movement- ) having silent characters/dialogue only was something you could get away with. Now, in this cinematic era, having any character just stand there while dialogue pops up is wholly laughable.
 

This is simply not true. The animations were on par with DA2, and many games had voice acting. Metal Gear Solid is a perfect example of a perfect game with voice acting.

But you have one thing right - Bioware is about story (and have previously been as much into "true" RP). This however does not imply a movie-like experience. Movies are more often entertainment, books story. In books, you imagine much of the characters yourself, in Bioware games it was the same. up until now.

The notion that PC without a voice is so laugnable and soo 90's is the most laughable and strikingly stupid thing I come across on these forums. tbh.

Modifié par eroeru, 08 août 2012 - 10:29 .

[eroeru]

Olmert wrote...

I've somewhat reluctantly concluded that it's like silent movies once "talkies" came out. There might be some who really liked the silent ones, but there was no going back.

Have you ever wathced the 2011 movie "The Artist"? Perfect silent movie.

So they are still great and convey something voice-flicks cannot. "The Artist" would not work at all if it were voiced.

As for the analogy itself, it simply does not hold. Role-playing is role-playing, movies are movies. A whole different genre, medium and category.

Modifié par eroeru, 08 août 2012 - 10:53 .

[eroeru]

Beerfish wrote...

Going back to an unvoiced protag would be a step backwards and feel like a step backwards.

A step backwards? How come? 90's games had as much voice acting. 

Voice acting is sooo late 2000.

[eroeru]

Atakuma wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

budzai wrote...

It is just cost them money and work.
It kills the RPing. You play Shepard, Hawke you have no choice.
A bad voice actor totally ruins it.
They should use that money and time to make more dialog options and outcomes.
Anyone agrees?

I've personally learned to make my peace with the voiced protagonist as long as I can have the underlined.

Unfortunately, Bioware hasn't given me any reason to hope that the two can be compatable.

They're throwing away the best their company has to offer (great writing, innovative storytelling) for something glitzy and unsatisfying, but easily marketable to the masses. Like your favorite steak restaurant deciding to only serve chicken nuggets. Wouldn't hear me complaining if both were still on the menu, though. 

The quality of writing has **** all to do with a voiced protagonist, the same goes for innovative storytelling. 

His/her statement was about more dialogue options and outcomes, not innovating storytelling nor writing.

And more well-thought options does = better dialogue, less options with more "innovation" (whatever that would mean - and in terms of quality it means nothing) would be far worse imho.

Modifié par eroeru, 08 août 2012 - 10:49 .

[fchopin]

budzai wrote...

It is just cost them money and work.
It kills the RPing. You play Shepard, Hawke you have no choice.
A bad voice actor totally ruins it.
They should use that money and time to make more dialog options and outcomes.
Anyone agrees?

Yes we agree but there is one problem, voice is the future and a game company that does not use voice will be left behind and only make games for the past.

[eroeru]

^^ On what do you base that opinion on?

[fchopin]

eroeru wrote...

^^ On what do you base that opinion on?

I think it is obvious that most RPG's will use voice for new games, in the past there was very little voiced dialogue, it was mostly text for pc character and companions and slowly voice was added as the science and cost was affordable.
 
The time has come for voiced pc characters so i think most gaming companies that make RPG's will use voice for pc characters.

[eroeru]

Re-stating doesn't help.

I say it once again - you're not basing that opinion on anything other than stating it's "obivous" in your opinion. Which, to be honest, takes away all credibility to your overly personal opinion.

And in opposition, I find that the "science", or more accurately technology for this existed since they invented sound recording. Or at least since the 90's, in which they made many voice-acted games, both well-made and worse-made. So that part of your post is nonsense and undermines your opinion even further (though is still not as crucial for this purpose as the almost-fact sense of silent old-school RPGs surviving as a well-loved and for investors in a long perspective "safe" even if a bit of a niche genre of gaming, as it's always been).

Modifié par eroeru, 08 août 2012 - 12:09 .

[zyntifox]

It's silly to say that " i think it is obvious that most RPG's will use voice for new games" since adding a voice just make the story more passive. And i am not saying that making a story more passive is a bad thing, because it is not, it is just different.

Modifié par Cstaf, 08 août 2012 - 12:12 .

[Pzykozis]

It is a fairly obvious trend though.. you can dislike it all you want but it would appear to me that there are more voiced pc rpgs being made now than none-voiced, as to the original title question;

Because thats the game they want to make...

[Malsumis]

The worst part is not giving the option to turn it off. While I would still hate the fact resources were wasted on this feature, I wouldn't have to put up with it.

But no, toggles are bad because bio isn't about choice anymore.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

eroeru wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Cinematic action game with RPG elements doesn't work well without voiced protagonist and it'll cost more time to develop proper RPG with tons of variables like Skyrim plus it'll affect BioWare's storytelling too.

Have you ever played previous Bioware titles?

edit: sorry, I didn't read "cinematic action game" out of your post initially. With that formulation, I'd agree. But would never consider Bioware's works, fame and legacy (in short, the reasons why they exist) to be connected to that sort of gaming.

Well, now it is the reason why the new BioWare EA exist. To develop Cinematic Action game with RPG elements starting with the success of Mass Effect 2. Some says they're already started with KOTOR but I never play Kotor, Jade Empire, MDK, Shattered Steel and Sonic Chronicles. I started with Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2, was anticipating Neverwinter Nights 3 but end up getting DAO. I thought BioWare will provide this sort of gaming but I was wrong with ME 2 and DA 2. I miss DA 2 description, "Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic
experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go "

If DA O was BioWare's mistake then it'd would be my mistake to choose BioWare's games like DA 2 and ME 2 because I never had considered BioWare existence to be connected to such gaming.

I'm not looking for "Spiritual successor to Baldur Gate" I'm looking to create MY character and shape My story in a RPG through choice and consequences or create my own custom campaign with Toolset. The old BioWare provide such game with Neverwinter Nights.

[DJRackham]

Malsumis wrote...

The worst part is not giving the option to turn it off. While I would still hate the fact resources were wasted on this feature, I wouldn't have to put up with it.

But no, toggles are bad because bio isn't about choice anymore.

I'd rather they "waste" resources on a voiced protagonist than on multiplayer. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

fchopin wrote...

budzai wrote...

It is just cost them money and work.
It kills the RPing. You play Shepard, Hawke you have no choice.
A bad voice actor totally ruins it.
They should use that money and time to make more dialog options and outcomes.
Anyone agrees?

Yes we agree but there is one problem, voice is the future and a game company that does not use voice will be left behind and only make games for the past.

With the exception of Skyrim and all future Bethesda' games. Hell, even EA own games like The Sim doesn't used proper voice acting ( Sim language ) or The Sim medieval. Or how about Championship Manager series and MMOs. Are those games consider outdated?

RPG isn't about voice/mute protagonist. It's about You playing a role in a story. It's either you play the role of a set character determined by the game master/developer or you create your own character through character creation. You can shape your own story ala sandbox mode or through choice and consequence in linear story driven RPG. Voiced or not is not important. What matter is decision making because decision making is gameplay mechanic. Watching your character interact in cinematic cutscenes is not gameplay mechanic. Video games are not for you to be passive audience. We have other medium for that kind of activity like TV or Cinema. This medium are execellent for Cinematic experience which rely heavily on Voiced Protagonists Non Player Character.