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Nobody will trust the catalyst after Leviathan (Warning Leviathan Spoilers)


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#1
TSA_383

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Edit:
These files were apparently first posted by  "ULT1M4T3xPL" so salute to that guy.

So, before you start reading, if you don't want some of the catalyst conversation changes in Leviathan spoiled, go do something else. Seriously. Stop reading.

Moving on...

This is the most recent leak we have of the updated "choice sequence" dialogue:

http://pastebin.com/R52YGPek 

If you've not read the other bits from the Leviathan script it won't make a lot of sense, some time ago I summed up the plot as such:

TSA_383 wrote...
The mission involves you investigating some asteroid mining colony, the miners turn out to be indoctrinated in a very strange way  - no mental degradation but they don't remember what happened after you free them by destroying some "monument". You end up on an epic quest to look for Leviathan, and you delve into its underwater realm, where you discover that Leviathan is the very first "unsuccessful" reaper. If you remember from the EC, the catalyst says something about attempting synthesis with unwilling organics - Leviathan was the result, it is a rogue reaper. So the leviathans created the catalyst AI and it turned on them, and after it could not control them it refined its techniques and created the first successful reaper - Harbinger.
You can confront the Catalyst in the decision chamber about the Leviathans, which has as yet unseen consequences [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

 

Which seems to be roughly confirmed by these new sections of choice sequence dialogue.

To pick a few particularly relevant sections:

 <data>A species that recognized the conflict that constantly arose between synthetics and organics.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748458</id>
  <position>25</position>
  <data>I calculated. I planned. I evolved new ways to prevent and mitigate the conflict. But in the end, only one solution that allowed organics and synthetics to coexist.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748459</id>
  <position>26</position>
  <data>Correct again. It was they who first recognize the conflict that persists between synthetics and organics. It was they who sought the solution.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748460</id>
  <position>27</position>
  <data>I was created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748461</id>
  <position>28</position>
  <data>Even still, our efforts ended in conflict. So a new solution was required.</data>

 <data>Yes and no. The Reapers are a synthetic representation of the ones who created us.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748464</id>
  <position>31</position>
  <data>And they became the first to be harvested. Though they fought us... it was the only solution.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748465</id>
  <position>32</position>
  <data>It is the only solution that maintains the balance and the directive.</data>

 <data>I was designed to control synthetics, and protect and preserve organic life.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748486</id>
  <position>53</position>
  <data>To this day, it remains my primary purpose.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748487</id>
  <position>54</position>
  <data>We required their harvesting to create the first Reaper. To enforce and enact on the solution I created.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748488</id>
  <position>55</position>
  <data>The first Reaper. In this cycle, amongst your kind, it is known as Harbinger.</data>

 <data>We have tried... a similar solution in the past. Several cycles ago.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748545</id>
  <position>112</position>
  <data>But it has always failed.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748546</id>
  <position>113</position>
  <data>Because the organics have been unwilling. It is not something that can be... forced.</data>
  </string>
- <string>
  <id>748547</id>
  <position>114</position>
  <data>You must choose it. For all of us.</data>

 

Could it really be made any more clear, given that we're going to meet a rogue reaper that was forced into synthesis, what that option represents, and the fact that the catalyst is attempting to force you down that path?

Modifié par TSA_383, 07 août 2012 - 06:47 .


#2
RavenEyry

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So it's first attempt at synthesis involved turning multiple people into a single reaper.

Then it totally never tried synthesis again, the successful reapers are an entirely different process, honest.

#3
MattFini

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If true, this sounds like a muddled mess.

#4
Taboo

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FALLACIES. FALLACIES.

I've been saying this for months.

He doesn't lie, he truly has no concept of what the **** he's doing.

#5
Conniving_Eagle

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Cool. I don't know if this helped in convincing me to buy the DLC. I don't think so...

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 07 août 2012 - 06:23 .


#6
Taboo

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If this is true, Synthesis is going to take another beating.

#7
MattFini

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I'm just confused: so, Leviathan shows us that synthesis is a bad thing. And then it's still presented as an option at the end, and it's supposed to be happy?

Taboo says that the Catalyst has no idea what its doing, and I don't disagree. I'm wondering, at this point, if the writers are in the same boat as SpaceBaby when they concieved this mess.

And again, I say that as someone who greatly admires the writing team at BioWare overall. 

Modifié par MattFini, 07 août 2012 - 06:26 .


#8
Skaldian

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Brilliant! Simply brilliant!

All the pieces are falling into place... [insert maniacal laughter].

#9
illyaillya

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I'm not reading this !

#10
D24O

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Isn't a different writer doing this DLC though?

#11
Taboo

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I think it's simply a machine that wants a solution and it can't do it.

So, just like a machine, it harvests synthetics and organics and says it's peace. But it isn't really a solution.

It's a work around. So is Synthesis. He's trying to solve it through the most blunt manner possible. LITERALLY fusing the two together.

#12
dreman9999

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So officially he is a shackled AI.....

#13
Ticonderoga117

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.....................
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
Oh yeah, not buying Leviathan.

#14
Ticonderoga117

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dreman9999 wrote...

So officially he is a shackled AI.....


He's not shackeled! He killed his creators!
The definition of an unshackeled AI!

#15
dreman9999

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Taboo-XX wrote...

I think it's simply a machine that wants a solution and it can't do it.

So, just like a machine, it harvests synthetics and organics and says it's peace. But it isn't really a solution.

It's a work around. So is Synthesis. He's trying to solve it through the most blunt manner possible. LITERALLY fusing the two together.

That's right Taboo. Now you getting it. He is a machine doing what he is programed to do. He is a slave to his programing. People have been saying this for weeks after ec.

#16
D24O

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

So officially he is a shackled AI.....


He's not shackeled! He killed his creators!
The definition of an unshackeled AI!


Or his creators were just really stupid.

#17
Taboo

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He's nothing more than a hypocritical piece of ****.

It's nice to see Bioware addressing this.

#18
Applepie_Svk

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RavenEyry wrote...

So it's first attempt at synthesis involved turning multiple people into a single reaper.

Then it totally never tried synthesis again, the successful reapers are an entirely different process, honest.


Succesfull troll is succesfull ... you know what I mean.

#19
Ticonderoga117

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D24O wrote...

Or his creators were just really stupid.


Well we already knew that because they thought they needed a solution to this "problem" anyway.

#20
dreman9999

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

So officially he is a shackled AI.....


He's not shackeled! He killed his creators!
The definition of an unshackeled AI!

Read the ops comments.
It's clearly is shackled.
 Also, it perserved it's creators.  And the definiton of ushackled AI's is not killing it's creators. That's a defination of a crazy AI.

#21
D24O

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I do hope they show him as a mistake, I was afraid that they'd try to show him as right through DLC.

#22
dreman9999

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

D24O wrote...

Or his creators were just really stupid.


Well we already knew that because they thought they needed a solution to this "problem" anyway.

That still means he is shackled and his creators are really stupid do making him do this.

#23
dreman9999

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D24O wrote...

I do hope they show him as a mistake, I was afraid that they'd try to show him as right through DLC.

Nothing here shows his logic is mastake. It only shows that his salution is flawed.

#24
D24O

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dreman9999 wrote...

That still means he is shackled and his creators are really stupid do making him do this.


Could be that they were so arrogant that they didn't think their machine would turn on them. Look at the reapers, they're all very self assured and so is the Catalyst.

Modifié par D24O, 07 août 2012 - 06:36 .


#25
dreamgazer

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Context can be a far bigger game-changer than people think.