1085 réponses à ce sujet

[RiptideX1090]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I hope Bioware realizes this is what happens when you try to reveal blatantly malevolent antagonists at the end of a trilogy as trying to be good all along. They end up looking like idiots trying to sound philisophical.

As for this. This "similar" solution to Synthesis isn't similar at all. I assumed Husks were the first attempt at Synthesis, but apparently cellular synthesis is similar to more collective-mind eldritch abominations in the vein of traditional Reapers. Yay... Because we needed more inconsistencies in the Catalyst to make the ending choices seem even more deceptive.

I think the Catalyst was supposed to provide a compelling and honest argument, but obviously that's not how it can be taken. The writers thought of what they thought was a neat twist and forgot to look at everything before to make sure it fit. And what do we get? An awful ending that appears to have decietful elements in it and BSN ranting on about it endlessly.

This.

It infuriates me to no end, too, that whenever I look at this series, all I can think about his how much the endings drive me nuts. I was so stoked for ME3, and I was one of Bioware's staunchest defenders.

And then the footage came in from the people who got it early. And the spiral to madness began. And now, BSN, which was always a volatile place to start, has been a smoking ruin ever since from all the bashing and hate.

[Baronesa]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

This.

It infuriates me to no end, too, that whenever I look at this series, all I can think about his how much the endings drive me nuts. I was so stoked for ME3, and I was one of Bioware's staunchest defenders.

And then the footage came in from the people who got it early. And the spiral to madness began. And now, BSN, which was always a volatile place to start, has been a smoking ruin ever since from all the bashing and hate.

I convinced a few frinds to blindly buy ME and ME2 before ME3 launch, only based on my word alone, I always hyped BioWare games when they were on sale on Steam...

All those friends loved the games but after ME3... they won't even touch older BioWare games even knowing that those games are good... just because they don't want anything to do with BioWare...

[RiptideX1090]

Baronesa wrote...
I convinced a few frinds to blindly buy ME and ME2 before ME3 launch, only based on my word alone, I always hyped BioWare games when they were on sale on Steam...

All those friends loved the games but after ME3... they won't even touch older BioWare games even knowing that those games are good... just because they don't want anything to do with BioWare...

Yeah.

All because two people with such massive egos locked themselves into a room and thought they could write ****** in a bottle and we'd drink it with smiles on our faces.

And it's a shame, too. I love Mass Effect. I don't think there is a person here on this site who would be here if they didn't. Sure, we complain and get upset, but it's because this series has left a really big mark on all of us. And I just loathe seeing it come down to this. Some non-sense about artistic integrity and everyone speculating because even after the EC, we still don't have any real closure.

[MattFini]

Baronesa wrote...

I convinced a few frinds to blindly buy ME and ME2 before ME3 launch, only based on my word alone, I always hyped BioWare games when they were on sale on Steam...

All those friends loved the games but after ME3... they won't even touch older BioWare games even knowing that those games are good... just because they don't want anything to do with BioWare...

Same.  Got some colleagues/co-workers to try out the seires. 

And as soon as they beat ME3 they jettisoned it from their collections. 

As such, on the website I write for and the podcast I'm a part of, the term "SpaceBaby" has become synonymous with screwing something up.  "They SpaceBabied it," for example. 

Which saddens me to no end because I love BioWare and still do. I think their writers are some of the best in the business, even if the ending really disapponted me like no other. 

Modifié par MattFini, 08 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[RiptideX1090]

MattFini wrote...

Same.  Got some colleagues/co-workers to try out the seires. 

And as soon as they beat ME3 they jettisoned it from their collections. 

As such, on the website I write for and the podcast I'm a part of, the term "SpaceBaby" has become synonymous with screwing something up.  "They SpaceBabied it," for example. 

Which saddens me to no end because I love BioWare and still do. I think their writers are some of the best in the business, even if the ending really disapponted me like no other. 

That is what is so agonizing about it. They did so good for so long, and don't get me wrong, ME1 and 2 both had their flaws, but they were still amazing games. And ME3 was damn good as well, despite its flaws.

Until the end. Where they tripped so bad it brought seven years of work on their part, and five years of gameplay for us all down.

And this is where we are left. Tearing one another apart as we speculate over how the series should end.

Modifié par RiptideX1090, 08 août 2012 - 01:00 .

[xxskyshadowxx]

I didn't trust the Catalyst from the start. It's the Reaper Overlord for crying out loud and Refuse reveals it's a lying bastard.

Reagardless of who says what....Shepard will always believe it 100% because in ME3 Shepard doesn't belong to the player anymore.

[MattFini]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

And this is where we are left. Tearing one another apart as we speculate over how the series should end.

I know there's a lot of tunnel vision here since the ending ... it's all anyone wants to discuss.

But considering the sheer volume of people on this site, I have to say that I don't think it's all that hostile or unwelcoming. 

It's why I hang around.  I kill way too much time here when I should be writing because I genuinely like the discussion and the people.  Hell, I even like the mods here ... they've really done a good job in a really bad situation.  I know some people disagree, but hey that's fine. 

Overall, I think the BSN is a pretty terrific community. 

[RiptideX1090]

MattFini wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

And this is where we are left. Tearing one another apart as we speculate over how the series should end.

I know there's a lot of tunnel vision here since the ending ... it's all anyone wants to discuss.

But considering the sheer volume of people on this site, I have to say that I don't think it's all that hostile or unwelcoming. 

It's why I hang around.  I kill way too much time here when I should be writing because I genuinely like the discussion and the people.  Hell, I even like the mods here ... they've really done a good job in a really bad situation.  I know some people disagree, but hey that's fine. 

Overall, I think the BSN is a pretty terrific community. 

Wouldn't be anyone here if there was not something about it worth a damn. I've been here from the start, and I'm not leaving any time soon.

I just wish we could have said goodbye to Shepard and his journey without this whole... mess.

[magnuskn]

TSA_383 wrote...

magnuskn wrote...

How... can an entire civilizations be harvested against its will to create the first Reaper when there are no Reapers yet? Did I miss that the Catalyst itself was part of one of those synthetic races which he so much opposes? One synthetic race that hated itself so very, very much?

Remember in Overlord where Cerberus attempt to make an organic/synthetic hybrid AI?
Just the software getting into the system is enough to take control of the whole facility due to defense systems and such.
I presume this would be similar.

Yeah, but that was one facility, not one entire civilization.

The scenario just doesn't make much sense on a galactic scale. No Reapers there yet to harvest, but someone did it. How? With what resources?

[MattFini]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

I just wish we could have said goodbye to Shepard and his journey without this whole... mess.

Agreed.  I lurked here a lot from the ME2 days and while I was shocked by some of the sentiment back then (like all of the anti-Harbinger nonsense), I was never compelled to join.

When ME3 was coming out, I joined up because I wanted to A) celebrate the end of Shepard's journey with other fans and congratulate BioWare on an incredible series.

Unfortunately things didn't turn out as expected, but I really did come to enjoy the people here. 

[TheRealJayDee]

Baronesa wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Because the organics and synthetics were also attacking the Reapers? The Reapers are defending themselves as well.

Oh come on.

Now they are defending themselves?

THEY INVADED OUR PLANETS, WE ARE TRYING TO STOP THEM FROM KILLING US BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT STOP, AND THEY ARE THE ONES DEFENDING THEMSELVES?

Oh... If you so love the Reapers why don't you just let Sovereign win on Mass Effect?

 
Thank you, I was just gonna respond to this part. Just... wow...?! I guess the countless genocides the Reapers are responsible for were commited in self defence as well.

[Someone With Mass]

So they're saying that Synthesis can't be forced right before letting Shepard force it upon everyone in the galaxy? Nice consistency.

[Applepie_Svk]

ART, guys it´s a ART ! TROLLING IS A ART ! TROLLING OWN ART IS A ART:

Pre EC - Catalyst - Godchild - Being of Light from Klencory - hinted by ME1 (despite that they were fighting against machine evils which fit also to Reapers)

EC - Catalyst - AI, despite that by his explanation by circular logic fit to rogue VI - explained by source of problem himself 

Leviathan - Catalyst - Rogue AI which is forcing to everyone his crap - changed by different source

And maybe 1-2 next DLC Catalyst will be changed again to unicorn pooing a rainbow...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 août 2012 - 02:32 .

[Thaa_solon]

yay, this thread is productive

[Applepie_Svk]

Thaa_solon wrote...

yay, this thread is productive

 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 août 2012 - 02:35 .

[sobbos]

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down.

[Applepie_Svk]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Because the organics and synthetics were also attacking the Reapers? The Reapers are defending themselves as well.

Oh come on.

Now they are defending themselves?

THEY INVADED OUR PLANETS, WE ARE TRYING TO STOP THEM FROM KILLING US BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT STOP, AND THEY ARE THE ONES DEFENDING THEMSELVES?

Oh... If you so love the Reapers why don't you just let Sovereign win on Mass Effect?

 
Thank you, I was just gonna respond to this part. Just... wow...?! I guess the countless genocides the Reapers are responsible for were commited in self defence as well.

By this logic we should treat burglar with wine and food and than after what he will take all our stuff we should ask him to take all our credit cards and money from wallet, than we could give him also key from car...

[SparkyRich]

Who trusted the Catalyst to begin with?

[Someone With Mass]

SparkyRich wrote...

Who trusted the Catalyst to begin with?

You'd be surprised...

[SubAstris]

When is this DLC coming out anyway?

[Wayning_Star]

becoming a reaper isn't synthesis, Laviathan isn't a proto reaper, it's under water for a reason, reaper ocean is space, dark space is home to them.

The 'found' scripting is only scratchpad stuff, not considered viable, only tacit information for those who live for spoilers, or like to troll their ideas as canon based on that interpretation of scratchpad unconfirmable data.

The catalyst is just a machine, advanced but compared to its creator race, simplistic. Probably why they were harvested, they assumed it would follow programming, but not go as far as it did. Just like the Quarians did with the Geth.

So, many of the assumptions taken from the OP are going to be distortions, due to user bias.

[saracen16]

Baronesa wrote...

saracen16 wrote...


Because the organics and synthetics were also attacking the Reapers? The Reapers are defending themselves as well.

Oh come on.

Now they are defending themselves?

THEY INVADED OUR PLANETS, WE ARE TRYING TO STOP THEM FROM KILLING US BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT STOP, AND THEY ARE THE ONES DEFENDING THEMSELVES?

Spare me the emotional babble. There is no question that they are the aggressors in this war. However, in the battle for Earth, the allied fleet in space has taken to the offensive. At the last ten minutes of ME3, the variables have changed: the Catalyst ceases to serve the function of antagonist, regardless of what battle rages on outside the Citadel. The Catalyst already made it clear: he can't make the new solution happen. He is just continuing his programming.

Oh... If you so love the Reapers why don't you just let Sovereign win on Mass Effect?

Don't you just love strawmen?

[BDelacroix]

MattFini wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

And this is where we are left. Tearing one another apart as we speculate over how the series should end.

I know there's a lot of tunnel vision here since the ending ... it's all anyone wants to discuss.

But considering the sheer volume of people on this site, I have to say that I don't think it's all that hostile or unwelcoming. 

It's why I hang around.  I kill way too much time here when I should be writing because I genuinely like the discussion and the people.  Hell, I even like the mods here ... they've really done a good job in a really bad situation.  I know some people disagree, but hey that's fine. 

Overall, I think the BSN is a pretty terrific community. 

I have seen far far worse forums.  This one isn't that bad just as you say.

[memorysquid]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
 I would rather end his insanity forever than appease it by finishing his original function in the most invasive and grotesque way possible.

You're welcome to your opinion, as long as you recognize that "invasive" and grotesque" are subjective.  EC slides show that Synthesis is just as good as any other ending save Refusal.  If you don't like it (and you clearly don't), that's perfectly reasonable.

But this insatiable bashing really needs to quit.  Synthesis is no more invasive than Destroy is.

(Ironic, since I'm a Destroy advocate)

Invasive is not subjective. You implant every living person with cybernetic implants and alter their DNA, and link them to synthetics. It fundamentally alters what people are. Against their will. You can argue Destroy is invasive and grotesque against the Geth, and I'd be inclined to agree, but they knew, just like everyone else, this could well be the end, and were willing to fight to the last platform to see it through. They chose to fight, and if necessary, die. No one, aside from the Catalyst, ever asked for Synthesis. Not a single living person. Unless you want to count Saren, who was a Reaper slave.

You are entitled to your opinion. I just happen to completely disagree with it.

The Geth sided with the Reapers to avoid extinction by the Quarians.  They were willing to do whatever necessary to survive.  RiouHotaru is exactly right.  No one asks to be killed; no one asked for Shepard to become immortal Reaper King; no one asked for synthesis.  No one even knew what the Crucible did beforehand.  They just took a shot in the dark because they thought they needed to in order to survive. 

Synthesis is an apparently benign change that you have to weigh off against genocide or institution of a Reaper based tyranny.  The Catalyst's reasoning has no impact on the actual costs and benefits of synthesis.  All this carping about its invasiveness is ignorant of Shepard's general disregard for informed consent and the impracticality of obtaining it in ME anyway.

[Applepie_Svk]

saracen16 wrote...

The Catalyst already made it clear: he can't make the new solution happen. He is just continuing his programming.

So he is rogue VI which working with circular logic...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 août 2012 - 03:12 .