dreman9999 wrote...
How is it illigical that that catalyst is just a machine doing what it's programed to do?AresKeith wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
When I say the reapers are puppets . I also mean the catalyst is a puppet too.
In your illogical world maybe
Modifié par Massa FX, 08 août 2012 - 04:19 .
dreman9999 wrote...
You clearly don't understand how a machine thinks.
Let me help you.
A machine does what ever it's programed to do and if it can change it's programing it's a slave to it. An AI can choose how it can do it's programing with in the limits of it's programing. An AI, like any machine, has no moral base and if shackled is not allowed gain a moral base because it's locked into it's programing.
Because of a lack of moral base, a shackled AI will do everything it can to do it's programing, even if it mean killing billions of people to do it. Even if it is physically limited from doing it's programing.
Modifié par Twinzam.V, 08 août 2012 - 04:22 .
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
AresKeith wrote...
abandon thread because of dreman9999
Why do you thing EDI is called an "unshakled AI" in ME3? Would that mean she was shackled before?Twinzam.V wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You clearly don't understand how a machine thinks.
Let me help you.
A machine does what ever it's programed to do and if it can change it's programing it's a slave to it. An AI can choose how it can do it's programing with in the limits of it's programing. An AI, like any machine, has no moral base and if shackled is not allowed gain a moral base because it's locked into it's programing.
Because of a lack of moral base, a shackled AI will do everything it can to do it's programing, even if it mean killing billions of people to do it. Even if it is physically limited from doing it's programing.
You clearly don't understand how an AI works.
Let me help you.
Your statement is correct if applied to machines. An AI is capable of independent thinking, EDI is an AI and was capable of independet thinking. That independence allowed her to learn and know when something was wrong even when was programmed in her, that's why she was abble to express opinions, know that she was shacled and know when someone was trying to hack her or differentiate a virus from a program.
dreman9999 wrote...
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
dreman9999 wrote...
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
dreman9999 wrote...
Why do you thing EDI is called an "unshakled AI" in ME3? Would that mean she was shackled before?Twinzam.V wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You clearly don't understand how a machine thinks.
Let me help you.
A machine does what ever it's programed to do and if it can change it's programing it's a slave to it. An AI can choose how it can do it's programing with in the limits of it's programing. An AI, like any machine, has no moral base and if shackled is not allowed gain a moral base because it's locked into it's programing.
Because of a lack of moral base, a shackled AI will do everything it can to do it's programing, even if it mean killing billions of people to do it. Even if it is physically limited from doing it's programing.
You clearly don't understand how an AI works.
Let me help you.
Your statement is correct if applied to machines. An AI is capable of independent thinking, EDI is an AI and was capable of independet thinking. That independence allowed her to learn and know when something was wrong even when was programmed in her, that's why she was abble to express opinions, know that she was shacled and know when someone was trying to hack her or differentiate a virus from a program.
Every person that uses EDI as an example misses one huge thing....SHE IS AN UNSHACKLED AI. She is free and and is free to do what ever she wants.... The concept is different with a shackled AI. Shackled AI's do not have the freedom of self development.
Modifié par Twinzam.V, 08 août 2012 - 04:28 .
dreman9999 wrote...
Your not getting it. His form of syntheis he is making is flawed. HE NEVER HAD A PLAN TO IMPROVE ON IT. If he did and he design the crucible for sysntesis, he would be build the crucible himself.3DandBeyond wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Dear god. Look at a reaper and how it was made. He was already doing synthesis in teh most extreme way. It make no sense to ask for Shepard to choose if the catalystis in control.
Back at you. Reapers are not truly synthesized-they are similar to the Collectors who were not as well. However if you believe they are fully synthesized beings then it makes your whole belief faulty and false.
If he's already achieved synthesis then he's lying in saying he hasn't. So why does he need Shepard? Why does he need a new solution if he has already achieved what you say he wants to achieve.
The kid says he has been trying it and it hasn't worked. Where does he ever say he was programmed to do that? He says his creators didn't want to become a reaper, so whose puppet is he? He wasn't programmed to force them to do that.
And he is programed to FIND peace of organics and synthics. Key word FIND. He was given the ability to choose how to solve the problem given to him from the start.
You clearly missed my point. What I trying to do is show you guys the difference between a shackled AI and an unshakcled AI.3DandBeyond wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
abandon thread because of dreman9999
It does seem mentioning the catalyst draws him out. Of course, he's entitled to his opinion, but I refuse to see the kid as some tragic victim or not the antagonist.
I do believe there will be tie in with Leviathan and the creators, but since the warped little AI turned crazy, even the Leviathan isn't going to pop up and say "forgive him, he's a mere puppet." No, you remove a computer virus. And no it doesn't think, but it still does damage.
dreman loves to say people don't understand how a machine works, but he conveniently always ignores part of the whole debate as to why many hate the endings-because mere machines became people. Because machines could not only think for themselves, but they could feel emotions as well.
Modifié par Massa FX, 08 août 2012 - 04:43 .
You complty miss my point. Re read what I wrote before. What does"Would that mean she was shackled before ?" means?Twinzam.V wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Why do you thing EDI is called an "unshakled AI" in ME3? Would that mean she was shackled before?Twinzam.V wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You clearly don't understand how a machine thinks.
Let me help you.
A machine does what ever it's programed to do and if it can change it's programing it's a slave to it. An AI can choose how it can do it's programing with in the limits of it's programing. An AI, like any machine, has no moral base and if shackled is not allowed gain a moral base because it's locked into it's programing.
Because of a lack of moral base, a shackled AI will do everything it can to do it's programing, even if it mean killing billions of people to do it. Even if it is physically limited from doing it's programing.
You clearly don't understand how an AI works.
Let me help you.
Your statement is correct if applied to machines. An AI is capable of independent thinking, EDI is an AI and was capable of independet thinking. That independence allowed her to learn and know when something was wrong even when was programmed in her, that's why she was abble to express opinions, know that she was shacled and know when someone was trying to hack her or differentiate a virus from a program.
Every person that uses EDI as an example misses one huge thing....SHE IS AN UNSHACKLED AI. She is free and and is free to do what ever she wants.... The concept is different with a shackled AI. Shackled AI's do not have the freedom of self development.
Did you played ME2? Until Joker deactivates the shackles in the collector attack she was a shackled AI she even mentions (if you talk to her) that she cant access confidential cerberus files because of the shackles.
She even questions some of your actions and even makes jokes while shackled.
The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
That's entirely irrelevant. You're assuming that the Catalyst relies on the Reapers for intelligence.
Which is a moot point anyway since even if that were true, Sovereign alone should provide it with all the intelligence and awareness required to open the Citadel relay by itself.
But the catalyst did not design the crucible. It didn't even know organics still had it.Wayning_Star wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Your not getting it. His form of syntheis he is making is flawed. HE NEVER HAD A PLAN TO IMPROVE ON IT. If he did and he design the crucible for sysntesis, he would be build the crucible himself.3DandBeyond wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Dear god. Look at a reaper and how it was made. He was already doing synthesis in teh most extreme way. It make no sense to ask for Shepard to choose if the catalystis in control.
Back at you. Reapers are not truly synthesized-they are similar to the Collectors who were not as well. However if you believe they are fully synthesized beings then it makes your whole belief faulty and false.
If he's already achieved synthesis then he's lying in saying he hasn't. So why does he need Shepard? Why does he need a new solution if he has already achieved what you say he wants to achieve.
The kid says he has been trying it and it hasn't worked. Where does he ever say he was programmed to do that? He says his creators didn't want to become a reaper, so whose puppet is he? He wasn't programmed to force them to do that.
And he is programed to FIND peace of organics and synthics. Key word FIND. He was given the ability to choose how to solve the problem given to him from the start.
actually reapers are pure synthetic life forms, sentient to the point of taking priority programming from the catalyst, and performing basic tasks, such as harvesting. Most give the catalyst too much credit, as to posit that it is fully functional sapient AI, ie, master mind. The syntheisis part of the reaper construct is misapplied. They only 'contain' organic substrates, DNA and memory composits of their reaped victims. The physical essence of the organic and synthetic races are utilized as material, just like mining ore. Converted to contruct their massive bodies. The bigger the races absorbed, the bigger and meaner the reaper is. It's an unknown how the collected intellect affects the process, as it's not fully explained in any codex I've read. Synthesis is refined, if taking the crucible into account,eventhough it's design isn't explained as it's primary function.Another loose end. It could be just a mining tool, a matter conversion contraption, modified over the cycles to attempt synthesis. The better the tools the more advanced the race becomes.
Baronesa wrote...
memorysquid wrote...
Good night! This is a video game and is significant of nothing in reality, certainly not WWII. What is with all the hate-spewing nonsense? Are you up past nap time?
This may be something new to you, but any sort of emdia does not exist in the vaccuum. Books, movies, music, comicbooks, videogames, all are informed and influenced by the culture of those who created it and by the one of those who access it.
You can't take the real life comparisions and components from ME just like you can't take the real life components and comparisions from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.
A synthetic still can have as many bodies as it wants. Nothing you said counters this. In fact, what you said is a point to what I said.Baronesa wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
What defines an AI is the software... you could put EDI on a MAko or on a Dreadnaught and as long as it has the same blue box it would be the same EDI.
The hardware is just a tool for them to interact witht he world and are not confined to it in the same way WE are.
We already know why it could not open the citadel by itself. And clearly the catalyst does need all the reaper avalible to be one will.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
That's entirely irrelevant. You're assuming that the Catalyst relies on the Reapers for intelligence.
Which is a moot point anyway since even if that were true, Sovereign alone should provide it with all the intelligence and awareness required to open the Citadel relay by itself.
...What? It hasno control over the destory or control options.AresKeith wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
A machine can have has many bodies as it wants and gain as many bodies as it wants. Look at EDI. She started as one body, now She has two.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
'I'm the collective intelligence of all the reapers"
Catalyst.
If all the reapers was asleep in dead space, that means the catalyst only had a tiny fragment of him avalible in ME1.
You're assuming the Catalyst works like a gestalt entity, even though it was designed and built before any Reapers existed because?
That's entirely irrelevant. You're assuming that the Catalyst relies on the Reapers for intelligence.
Which is a moot point anyway since even if that were true, Sovereign alone should provide it with all the intelligence and awareness required to open the Citadel relay by itself.
lets not forget its an ancient AI thats probably capable of anything at that time that was powered by the Crucible
StElmo wrote...
WHY THE GODDAMN HELL DIDN'T THE CATALYST LET SOVEREIGN IN IN ME1 THEN!!?!??!!?!?!? HE WANTS THE REAPING TO HAPPEN SO WHY THE HELL DOESN'T HE DO IT!
dreman9999 wrote...
]You complty miss my point. Re read what I wrote before. What does"Would that mean she was shackled before ?" means?
The concept is different with a shackled AI. Shackled AI's do not have the freedom of self development.
dreman9999 wrote...
We already know why it could not open the citadel by itself. And clearly the catalyst does need all the reaper avalible to be one will.
dreman9999 wrote...
We already know why it could not open the citadel by itself. And clearly the catalyst does need all the reaper avalible to be one will.
dreman9999 wrote...
We already know why it could not open the citadel by itself. And clearly the catalyst does need all the reaper avalible to be one will.
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