1085 réponses à ce sujet

[Ithurael]

Also a point in this I hope someone can help me with. The reapers were described as "Synthetic representations of the ones who made us"

If I understand my ME1 and 2 lore - the Reapers were NEVER synthetic (absolute) they were Synthetic/Organic constructs. Billions of minds in one form. ME3 continues to wreck the Reaper mythos by saying the Reapers are just "machines" like the Geth. They are not just machines.

I'll Youtube it and read a wiki then I'll see how it plays out. Remember guys -this will NOT affect the ending. You will just get more dialog with starkid - nothing more.

[D24O]

Tazzmission wrote...

did this really need another thread? not to sound rude but theres already a thread discussing this

Yes, because the OP's avatar has a fancy cat.

[dreman9999]

Taboo-XX wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Boy is he flawed.

This AI turned on it's creators to form it's calculated process and arrived at a work around.

He still doesn't account for variables each cycle.

What a ****ing mess this is.

What variables would change it's salution?

It a machine. All it cares to do is what it's programed to do. It found a way to do it thatit's creators did not agree with.
That clear is the flaw of machines.

Not it's solution, it's process. He sought a simple solution being a machine.

He isn't creative like organics, and cannot factor in EVERY variable that may come into play.

Shepard simply being in front of him shows that his solution is fallible.

His salution was always 
fallible. That's the probelm. A machine has limits to what it can do. If given an impossible task, it choosing a 
fallible salution is understandable. The only way it could of solved it is if it controled everything.

[Nitrocuban]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

So officially he is a shackled AI.....

He's not shackeled! He killed his creators!
The definition of an unshackeled AI!

He is shackled, but its creators forgot to implement "Don´t kill your creators, mkay?" in his thought routines. But he still works perfectly within its set of does and donts. "Preserve organic life, hinder war, search for an enduring chance of peace." but bends the rules in absurd ways. Not cause he is evil but because he is not able to think freely.
The catalyst is like a dog, teach him not to eat from the kitchen table and he will just drop the food on the floor and then eat it. And poo on the carpet.

[ThaDPG]

dreman9999 wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

I'm just praying for some way to make the catalyst see what an idiot he is and self destruct himself or something

He is only going to see that he has to do what he is programed to do. He wouldn't do that.

I realize that, I was just joking.  I agree he is just an emotionless machine doing what he was programmed to do in the most direct way possible, not able to account for unforseen variables, such as Shepard making it all the way to him

[The Angry One]

Oh for god's sake.
It changed it's own directive. It came up with a brand new method to solve the problem of it's new directive. It did this consciously, and creatively.

It is not a machine doing what it's told, it is fully aware of it's own actions.

[dreman9999]

Ithurael wrote...

Also a point in this I hope someone can help me with. The reapers were described as "Synthetic representations of the ones who made us"

If I understand my ME1 and 2 lore - the Reapers were NEVER synthetic (absolute) they were Synthetic/Organic constructs. Billions of minds in one form. ME3 continues to wreck the Reaper mythos by saying the Reapers are just "machines" like the Geth. They are not just machines.

I'll Youtube it and read a wiki then I'll see how it plays out. Remember guys -this will NOT affect the ending. You will just get more dialog with starkid - nothing more.

Think about it this way. If I make a robot out of chichen bones...Is it synthesis?

[Taboo]

dreman9999 wrote...

His salution was always 
fallible. That's the probelm. A machine has limits to what it can do. If given an impossible task, it choosing a 
fallible salution is understandable. The only way it could of solved it is if it controled everything.

That's my point.

He should have never been created to solve this problem.

The entirety of the Reaper crisis boils down to one simple thing.

People still do not take responsibility for their creations.

[Applepie_Svk]

AI guys it´s freaking AI I dunno what´s so hard to understand about that

[ThaDPG]

The Angry One wrote...

Oh for god's sake.
It changed it's own directive. It came up with a brand new method to solve the problem of it's new directive. It did this consciously, and creatively.

It is not a machine doing what it's told, it is fully aware of it's own actions.

It's aware, i agree, it just has to work withing its programming, and has no moral restrictions

[Greed1914]

Taboo-XX wrote...

FALLACIES. FALLACIES.

I've been saying this for months.

He doesn't lie, he truly has no concept of what the **** he's doing.

This is the distinct impression I got from the "clarifications" of the EC.  This is happening because the Catalyst can't even do the job it was designed for and apparently can't see that it has failed.  I have a huge problem having the terms of peace dictated to me by someone that can't see it's own failings and resorts to blunt force to make them work. 

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

Oh for god's sake.
It changed it's own directive. It came up with a brand new method to solve the problem of it's new directive. It did this consciously, and creatively.

It is not a machine doing what it's told, it is fully aware of it's own actions.

Let me make it clear for you so you understand.
A machine does what it is programed to do and is a slave to it's programing if it can't change it. An AI can choose how it does it's programing.
It's creator gave the catalyst an opened ended quetion with no real awnser to how to solve it. From the start it was allowed to pick how to solve the problem it was give. It is with in it's programing to pick how to solve it.
As long as it is seeking to solve this problem it has not gone ageinst it's programing. It is still doing that. It matter not how it does it, if he find a salution  he is doing his programing.
His salution is to preserve organics. To the catalyst , this means he found a salution even if it is flawed.

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 août 2012 - 07:00 .

[wright1978]

I didn't trust space hitler before leviathon and never will. So if DLC makes it extra obvious obvious that you shouldn't trust the evil little midget great news!

[dreman9999]

Taboo-XX wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

His salution was always 
fallible. That's the probelm. A machine has limits to what it can do. If given an impossible task, it choosing a 
fallible salution is understandable. The only way it could of solved it is if it controled everything.

That's my point.

He should have never been created to solve this problem.

The entirety of the Reaper crisis boils down to one simple thing.

People still do not take responsibility for their creations.

http://mlkshk.com/r/GO27
And now he understand the catalyst is not a fault.

[AresKeith]

for once can we have a Starbrat thread without dreman defending it

[ZombieJohn84]

Trying to care... Trying to care...

Nope. The more they try to "explain" the Reapers, the worse things get. Just like Freddy Krueger; backstory's got a pretty steep "deminishing returns" curve when it comes to inigmatic villains.

[Applepie_Svk]

dreman9999 wrote...
Let me make it clear for you so you understand.
A machine does what it is programed to do and is a slave to it's programing if it can't change it. An AI can choose how it does it's programing.
It's creator gave the catalyst an opened ended quetion with no real awner to how to solve it. From the start it was allowed to pick how to solve how to solve problem is was give. It is with in it's programing to pick how to solve it.
As long as it is seeking to solve this problem it has not gone ageinst it's programing. It is still doing that. It matter not how it does it, if he find a salution  he is doing his programing.
His salution is to preserve organics. To the catalyst , this means he found a salution even if it is flawed.

By your logic Geths should right now be just a servants raising crops and and working in mines...

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Oh for god's sake.
It changed it's own directive. It came up with a brand new method to solve the problem of it's new directive. It did this consciously, and creatively.

It is not a machine doing what it's told, it is fully aware of it's own actions.

Let me make it clear for you so you understand.
A machine does what it is programed to do and is a slave to it's programing if it can't change it. An AI can choose how it does it's programing.
It's creator gave the catalyst an opened ended quetion with no real awner to how to solve it. From the start it was allowed to pick how to solve how to solve problem is was give. It is with in it's programing to pick how to solve it.
As long as it is seeking to solve this problem it has not gone ageinst it's programing. It is still doing that. It matter not how it does it, if he find a salution  he is doing his programing.
His salution is to preserve organics. To the catalyst , this means he found a salution even if it is flawed.

Let me make this clear so YOU understand.
The solution, to preserve organics, is the solution to a problem IT MADE UP.
It's creator given directive was to end conflict between organics and synthetics. That synthetics would wipe out all organics is something it determined on it's own.

[Taboo]

Do not use Orson Welles to mock me.

I always understood that he was not needed.

He's nothing more than the teller of a VERY unfunny joke.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

for once can we have a Starbrat thread without dreman defending it

I'm not defencing it. I'm saying it was force into a no win salution by it's idiot creators.

[Hrothdane]

If the Reaper Consciousness/Starbrat looks this bad from his own dialogue, imagine once we have the context of Leviathan's point of view, if we get to talk to him. He might have some choice words for everyone's least favorite child-shaped AI.

[ThaDPG]

Flog61 wrote...

All i get from this is that they are publically acknowledging that they really want you to pick synthesis

This suggests that with dlc they'll try and convince as many people to the dark side as possible, and then declare it canon for ME4

I would think this pushes you away from synthesis more than draws you in

[MegaSovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Oh for god's sake.
It changed it's own directive. It came up with a brand new method to solve the problem of it's new directive. It did this consciously, and creatively.

It is not a machine doing what it's told, it is fully aware of it's own actions.

Let me make it clear for you so you understand.
A machine does what it is programed to do and is a slave to it's programing if it can't change it. An AI can choose how it does it's programing.
It's creator gave the catalyst an opened ended quetion with no real awner to how to solve it. From the start it was allowed to pick how to solve how to solve problem is was give. It is with in it's programing to pick how to solve it.
As long as it is seeking to solve this problem it has not gone ageinst it's programing. It is still doing that. It matter not how it does it, if he find a salution  he is doing his programing.
His salution is to preserve organics. To the catalyst , this means he found a salution even if it is flawed.

Let me make this clear so YOU understand.
The solution, to preserve organics, is the solution to a problem IT MADE UP.
It's creator given directive was to end conflict between organics and synthetics. That synthetics would wipe out all organics is something it determined on it's own.

You're BOTH wrong.

The answer to your question is yes, Legion does have a soul.

Are you confused yet?

[ThaDPG]

Hrothdane wrote...

If the Reaper Consciousness/Starbrat looks this bad from his own dialogue, imagine once we have the context of Leviathan's point of view, if we get to talk to him. He might have some choice words for everyone's least favorite child-shaped AI.

I know it won't happen, but I'd enjoy watching Leviathan blast starkid into the next galaxy