1085 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Okay I know the thing is lying about being the "Catalyst" because only the TRUE Catalyst will DENY being the Catalyst. And what is the second thing it says? "I am the Catalyst." So what do we know so far... He's not the catalyst. He's just a very naughty boy.

Ooo ooo ooo!!!! I've got a question for the fake Catalyst.

Would you please define synthetic? See it's kind of important.

* is he using the definition "not naturally occurring" ... if so that would mean stuff like say pantyhose would go *poof* which really would be no great loss, but what about stuff like synthetic rubber, tire cord, wire insulation, plastic, but the space ships didn't deteriorate so it's pretty loose which means that computers still work and all that stuff. And Geth are basically just computers with moving parts and just really sophistcated programming, right? And the same for AIs, right? But Reapers are different, and the AI brathead is like an AI ass hole, and they're targetted. So maybe the Crucible only targets Reapers and AI ass holes like Starbrats?

[spirosz]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If this is true, Synthesis is going to take another beating.

Rofl, I can't wait, hahahahaha.

[AngryFrozenWater]

dreman9999 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Just for a last jab. Their is more proof he is shackled then him being not. He makes it clear is being forced.

That's not proof. If the option, which is dreamed up by the brat itself, "forces" the brat to accept it then it just faces the consequences of that.

BTW: The term "shackled" is only used to indicate EDI's behavioral locks. No such reference is ever made when it comes to any other AI. That's why I asked that earlier in this thread. The only reason you want the brat to be shackled is because it would show that it is not responsible for its actions. It is the same reason why you keep confusing an AI with a VI. If the brat does something that cannot be defended you are treating it as a VI.

You entire concept is that the catalyst is lieing. If this leak is ture, the catalyst is not and himsay he is being forced does mean he is shackled.
Also, the term shackled can be done to any AI. It make no sense it can only be done to one AI.

The only one who is forced here is Shepard to accept one of its options. The brat forces itself to respect Shepard's choice, unless its creators told the brat to build the Citadel with three platforms to interface with the Crucible plus an elevator to get an organic up there.

"And be a good boy now. Whenever a wounded organic lies there push the button of the elevator. It's most likely Miss Shepard. She's a good girl. You can trust her. Make sure you do your eugenics homework before she gets there, because we don't want anymore poor organics ending up with two heads."

Any AI can be shackled, but that does not mean all are. The only one we know of was EDI's behavioral lock. No other AI has been designated as such. And thus the brat is unshackled. And thus it is able to lie if it is in its advantage. Even if it was shackled it wouldn't mean it could not lie. It depends on what behavior was blocked. And guess what? It is a master in lying. It even developed technology to force people to believe its lies. It's called indoctrination.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 10 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I find killing the catalyst and it's pet abominations to be very...satisfying.

After a billion years of genocide and galactic rape it deserves death regardless of it's intentions.

[ForceXev]

Oh boy, can't wait for this DLC now. It's amazing how Bioware figured out that when the fans talk about how much we hate the Catalyst Boy, we really meant that we want more and more dialogue with him. They delivered with the EC and now they're going to expand his role some more. Wonderful.

I think for the Omega DLC they should replace EDI with the Catalyst Boy as a crew member, and maybe just rename the game to "Catalyst Effect" for good measure.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

ForceXev wrote...

Oh boy, can't wait for this DLC now. It's amazing how Bioware figured out that when the fans talk about how much we hate the Catalyst Boy, we really meant that we want more and more dialogue with him. They delivered with the EC and now they're going to expand his role some more. Wonderful.

I think for the Omega DLC they should replace EDI with the Catalyst Boy as a crew member, and maybe just rename the game to "Catalyst Effect" for good measure.

That might just have the right amout of speculations from everyone for the "brilliant minds" in charge of writting the ending.

[halbert986]

so all this mysticism, mind control, and war on a galactic scale going back an unimaginable amount of time amounts to nothing more than an out of control AI. Woooooooooowwwwwww.

Why don't they try to explain the origin of the universe in the next dlc. Maybe that'll work out better. Or perhaps the purpose of life. Or maybe if a god/creator exists. Why not have us all be the result of a giant out of control AI running a galaxy simulation? bleh...

Everyone of you is fired.

The only salvageable story I can think of is that the first advanced organic life tried to come up with a solution to conflict. Galactic peace if you will. This begs the philosophical discussion of whether or not true peace is actually attainable. It goes against the very laws of nature. Synthetics exist outside of nature. If they created a synthetic to "enforce" peace while at the same time preserving organic life it would have judged organics to be the cause of all conflict. (Think quarians and geth here.) But it's programming does not allow the destruction of organics. So it searched for a "solution." And found a loophole in preserving organic life in reaper form. Thus "preventing" war. Ok maybe makes sense at first glance but think about it for more than 20 minutes and holes start showing up.

God I hope I'm wrong.

[Ticonderoga117]

alleyd wrote...

Does anyone else regret not having an option to question or challenge the Catalysts solution was an option still lacking in the game?

Maybe i've got stuck on the Golem cliche ending of a paradox solution shutting down the whole system. Citadel, Reapers, Catalyst and Relays. Not destroying more a system reset, without the Catalyst.

The true enemy being the final casualty and a victim of his own solution.

Every. Single. Time I get there, especially after the first go through.
I feel the need to delete his code block by block and have him feel the loss.
He's talking nonsense and I'm FORCED to do his bidding? To hell with that, I'm Commander F***ing Shepard!
Did we bow to Saren? No!
Did we bow to Harbinger? No!
Did we bow to TIM (in ME3)? No!
Did we bow at the most important part of the series, against our will, and against the King of the Reapers? Yes!

[Nicksta92]

dreman9999 wrote...

Nicksta92 wrote...

Crucible was flawed; catalyst said that. Hence,it's power couldn't be focused properly and the geth EDI unfortunately are destroyed.

He never said that.

Yes he did.  He says that the Crucible is "mostly in tact, BUT"  and then goes to say that all synthetics will be targetted.

[Mr.House]

Nicksta92 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Nicksta92 wrote...

Crucible was flawed; catalyst said that. Hence,it's power couldn't be focused properly and the geth EDI unfortunately are destroyed.

He never said that.

Yes he did.  He says that the Crucible is "mostly in tact, BUT"  and then goes to say that all synthetics will be targetted.

So why are they not all targetted in COntrol? Why only in Destory? And why is all life even plants and trees targetted in merge? What, are pear trees gonig to build robots that will burn them?

Modifié par Mr.House, 10 août 2012 - 05:49 .

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Mr.House wrote...
So why are they not all targetted in COntrol? Why only in Destory? And why is all life even plants and trees targetted in merge? What, are pear trees gonig to build robots that will burn them?

Yes, yes they will, quit disagreeing you............you free thinker.

[JShepppp]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Does anyone else regret not having an option to question or challenge the Catalysts solution was an option still lacking in the game?

Maybe i've got stuck on the Golem cliche ending of a paradox solution shutting down the whole system. Citadel, Reapers, Catalyst and Relays. Not destroying more a system reset, without the Catalyst.

The true enemy being the final casualty and a victim of his own solution.

Every. Single. Time I get there, especially after the first go through.
I feel the need to delete his code block by block and have him feel the loss.
He's talking nonsense and I'm FORCED to do his bidding? To hell with that, I'm Commander F***ing Shepard!
Did we bow to Saren? No!
Did we bow to Harbinger? No!
Did we bow to TIM (in ME3)? No!
Did we bow at the most important part of the series, against our will, and against the King of the Reapers? Yes!

Difference though is that the Catalyst freely acquiesces to shepard whereas the others did not.

[JShepppp]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Just for a last jab. Their is more proof he is shackled then him being not. He makes it clear is being forced.

That's not proof. If the option, which is dreamed up by the brat itself, "forces" the brat to accept it then it just faces the consequences of that.

BTW: The term "shackled" is only used to indicate EDI's behavioral locks. No such reference is ever made when it comes to any other AI. That's why I asked that earlier in this thread. The only reason you want the brat to be shackled is because it would show that it is not responsible for its actions. It is the same reason why you keep confusing an AI with a VI. If the brat does something that cannot be defended you are treating it as a VI.

You entire concept is that the catalyst is lieing. If this leak is ture, the catalyst is not and himsay he is being forced does mean he is shackled.
Also, the term shackled can be done to any AI. It make no sense it can only be done to one AI.

The only one who is forced here is Shepard to accept one of its options. The brat forces itself to respect Shepard's choice, unless its creators told the brat to build the Citadel with three platforms to interface with the Crucible plus an elevator to get an organic up there.

The Catalyst, as a slave to its programming, must find the best solution. It builds its knowledge and data empirically as we know because it has changed solutions. This means it does not consider itself infallible. The Crucible's execution (attached to the Citadel) is a manifestation of the flaws in the Reaper plan, so the REaper solution becomes less viable at the given moment due to new occurrences. The Crucible's solutions all are better than the now-lowered-Reaper solution. Therefore, as a slave to its programming, the Catalyst is forced to turn to Shepard and the Crucible to get a better solution.

"And be a good boy now. Whenever a wounded organic lies there push the button of the elevator. It's most likely Miss Shepard. She's a good girl. You can trust her. Make sure you do your eugenics homework before she gets there, because we don't want anymore poor organics ending up with two heads."

Any AI can be shackled, but that does not mean all are. The only one we know of was EDI's behavioral lock. No other AI has been designated as such. And thus the brat is unshackled. And thus it is able to lie if it is in its advantage. Even if it was shackled it wouldn't mean it could not lie. It depends on what behavior was blocked. And guess what? It is a master in lying. It even developed technology to force people to believe its lies. It's called indoctrination.

So your argument is that since most AIs aren't shackled, we must just assume that the Catalyst isn't? Evidence indicates otherwise.

And why would it try to indoctrinate Shepard at the time of the Crucible? It makes no sense; it might as well kill Shepard and get an indoctrinated servant to activate Synthesis. If it specifically needs shepard's build to do synthesis, why doesn't it present synthesis as the ONLY option of the Crucible and the destroy option? Why even bother giving the choice to destroy?

[Ticonderoga117]

JShepppp wrote...
Difference though is that the Catalyst freely acquiesces to shepard whereas the others did not.

Not really. We're doing something he wants. If we don't, he throws a fit and leaves, showing his true colors.

[SpamBot2000]

That Leviathan species must have been epically wimpy, seeing as they got harvested by Space Ghost solo. Same goes for Harby I guess.

[Postman778]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. You MISS ED MY POINT... Ask your self this ...Why is the normandy on a planet. And Yes, you have to land to normady to walk out of it the way he did.

For gods sake, it is impossible to talk to you. You are just reading what you want, ignoring everything else that doesn´t fit into your interpretation.

dreman9999 wrote...

2. You still missing the comprehenshion on"EASILLY REPAIRED."

No, you cannot explain what you mean with "EASILY REPAIRED". Is it rebooting, does it mean you count up to 3 and everything is working?

For example:
All cooling systems (tech) in your local nuclear plant fail and all redundant cooling systems (tech), too, causing a chain reaction that cannot be stopped.
Now go and repair it easily.

Even if all systems on a modern airplane fail, the pilot and crew are not able to land the plane. The spacebrats argumentation is bull****. What tech is affected, how is it affected? How can it be repaired? EASILY, that is term used for "I have no idea but lets say it is easily repairede..."
The writer who is responsible for that didn´t think about it, that is the problem.

dreman9999 wrote...

4.Talk to EDI in ME2 after she is unshakled and She wil tell you she is made out a reaper tech as well.

I know that reaper tech is used for her production. But she got beyond her former purpose, so it doesn´t matter what was used for creating her. She is self aware with her own consciousness.
She is still a programm...

dreman9999 wrote...


5.With the geth look up AI in the ME codex.

here a quote for you

Shepard's choices either Legion/Geth VI will upload the remainder of
the Reaper code, thus allowing each geth program to achieve true
individual consciousness and the power to resist and obliterate the
quarians, the upload is interrupted and the geth eliminated, or Shepard
convinces the quarians to stand down and the two sides hesitantly make
peace.
If Shepard allowed the geth to achieve true intelligence, they will provide asssistence with the War Effort. [...] If peace was made with the quarians, it is revealed that
the geth are able to coexist with them on Rannoch, helping setting up
housing and uploading into quarian suits, mimicking infections that, in
time, will help the quarians to boost their immune system.

They are programms. It doesn´t matter if the program says 00111000 or 11000111, they are still programs. Why are they gone, if everything can be so "EASILY REPAIRED"?

[Deltateam Elcor]

Simple Quantum Physics, you cant repair what was never there in the first place.

[JeffZero]

There are numerous spelling errors in this new dialogue. We're 100% sure it's legit...?

[Deltateam Elcor]

JeffZero wrote...

There are numerous spelling errors in this new dialogue. We're 100% sure it's legit...?

EA probably cracked down hard on the writers, so they hired monkeys instead. 

[AxStapleton]

JeffZero wrote...

There are numerous spelling errors in this new dialogue. We're 100% sure it's legit...?

Maybe, but with the accuracy of recent leaks (the Earth DLC was called word for word a month in advance), I tend to give a chance to them now.

[JeffZero]

D'ohoho, Deltateam Elcor.

I do too, AxStapleton. I mean, I've been there for all of 'em. I just... seeing the spelling errors, and seeing them only there for the new lines, makes me wonder if someone might recognize how much benefit of the doubt we give all the data-related leaks these days and seize the opportunity to stir things up in an already-quite-stirred fandom.

[JeffZero]

I'm reading... this... whatever this is, now:

http://pastebin.com/v0LAW6fR

This Polish translation of what is allegedly learned in Leviathan... this thing about Omega, look, I dunno if someone out there is pulling a prank on us or what, but I love that idea of Omega having originally intended to be the Crucible. That blew my mind, real or not.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm so utterly confused what this thing is.

In Arrvial Shepard touches the artifact Leviathan, DLC is not canonical, but BioWare certainly is, somehow jump. 

Oh.

Modifié par JeffZero, 10 août 2012 - 10:27 .

[tyrvas]

JeffZero wrote...

I'm reading... this... whatever this is, now:

http://pastebin.com/v0LAW6fR

This Polish translation of what is allegedly learned in Leviathan... this thing about Omega, look, I dunno if someone out there is pulling a prank on us or what, but I love that idea of Omega having originally intended to be the Crucible. That blew my mind, real or not.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm so utterly confused what this thing is.

In Arrvial Shepard touches the artifact Leviathan, DLC is not canonical, but BioWare certainly is, somehow jump. 

Oh.

But wasn't Omega built bit by bit by element zero mining companies?
then exteneded by other factions/groups when it was left idle.

[JeffZero]

Probably. Honestly, I don't remember, haha.

I'm really confused by whatever that file I linked is. Maybe just ramblings. Hard to tell because of its really rough translation job from Polish to English, but I've been absent from the Story board for a long time and I figured there was a slim chance this was the catalyst (ohoho) of all the new information.

But then the more I read of it, the less it made sense, so I'm really not sure. Some of it sounds awesome, the stuff I can make out, but then there are things that just... I just don't get. Probably just weird fan ramblings.

[JeffZero]

Yeah, I'm... pretty damn sure it is just fan ramblings. It has less than 60 hits. >_> I just found it while searching "Leviathan DLC" on pastebin, haha.