1085 réponses à ce sujet

[dorktainian]

I like the Synthesis ending. It's Green and Pretty. I like the Control Ending. It's Blue and makes a lot of sense. I like the red ending. It's the only time i get to actually destroy the reapers - which was the purpose of the games up to press as far as I can tell.

I would love to have forced star brat to watch as we completely obliterated his 'solution' before watching the little turd commit AI suicide.

ART got in the way.

[dreman9999]

Greed1914 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


]And that's the problem with the satution it pick. But what your not understanding is that the catalystis just a machining doing what it's programed to do. I t does care if the salution is flawed, he only cares to solve the problem it was given. It forced to solve the probelm.

But if it's truly as advanced as it claims, then surely it could acknowledge that there are better ways, or to seek new perspectives if it can't find those other ways.  EDI sought input from Shepard and the crew because she was able to alter her programming, but lacked perspective.  She collaborated in order to find out what options were available.  The Catalyst claims it is no simple AI, but something more.  Yet, it is unable to seek out help from other sources to this non-existent problem.  The whole point of putting an AI in charge of finding a solution is that it is supposed to be able to go beyond its original programming and seek out alternatives.  It might as well be a simple VI since it goes through countless cycles seeking the exact same outcome.  

That's the problem as well. It's a shackled AI. It's forced into views that only helps it's salution. You have to understand that using EDI is not a good example because she is unshackled, she has the freddom to do what ever she wants. The catalyst is shaclked and does not have EDI's freedom. The reapers are examples of the dangers of shakled AI's. They don't take account of morality to it's choices, it only thinks to doing it's programing no matter what, even it if means  billions die.
A shackled Ai ether has to be freed ,reprogramed, destroyed or given a new way to do it's programing to stop it.

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 août 2012 - 08:13 .

[dreman9999]

dorktainian wrote...

I like the Synthesis ending. It's Green and Pretty. I like the Control Ending. It's Blue and makes a lot of sense. I like the red ending. It's the only time i get to actually destroy the reapers - which was the purpose of the games up to press as far as I can tell.

I would love to have forced star brat to watch as we completely obliterated his 'solution' before watching the little turd commit AI suicide.

ART got in the way.

People who just don't understand that convetionakl mean of victory is not possible. Sad.

[B.Shep]

dorktainian wrote...

I like the Synthesis ending. It's Green and Pretty. I like the Control Ending. It's Blue and makes a lot of sense. I like the red ending. It's the only time i get to actually destroy the reapers - which was the purpose of the games up to press as far as I can tell.

I would love to have forced star brat to watch as we completely obliterated his 'solution' before watching the little turd commit AI suicide.

ART got in the way.

Well as a solace at least i can see it dying everytime i pick Destroy
Man, i really want to see this conversation with Leviathan...

[Memnon]

dreman9999 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Never trusted the little bastard before Leviathan ...

Precisely.
Seems even less trustworthy now, doesn't it? 

Not really. What you put up just make his creators look more stupid for giving the job of solving this open end problem to a morally baseless machine.

I've always maintained that the Catalyst's creators were morons - in fact, I made a thread that stated exactly that a few weeks ago:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12925856

[Mr.House]

Wait so this dlc makes merge look bad and shows it's not a good solution? Sweet that's like an insta buy for me.

[Kroitz]

dreman9999 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

I like the Synthesis ending. It's Green and Pretty. I like the Control Ending. It's Blue and makes a lot of sense. I like the red ending. It's the only time i get to actually destroy the reapers - which was the purpose of the games up to press as far as I can tell.

I would love to have forced star brat to watch as we completely obliterated his 'solution' before watching the little turd commit AI suicide.

ART got in the way.

People who just don't understand that convetionakl mean of victory is not possible. Sad.

Must be people who played the first two games where no Deus Ex Machina was introduced in the first 30 minutes and the thematical build up was somewhat cohesive. Sad, sad indeed.

[dreman9999]

Mr.House wrote...

Wait so this dlc makes merge look bad and shows it's not a good solution? Sweet that's like an insta buy for me.

It was always shown it's salution is bad. The catalyst even state that he feels his salution is bad.

[Mcfly616]

Any rumored release date for the dlc?

I'm sure they'll announce the exact date, just a few short days before it is out....

[dreman9999]

Kroitz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

I like the Synthesis ending. It's Green and Pretty. I like the Control Ending. It's Blue and makes a lot of sense. I like the red ending. It's the only time i get to actually destroy the reapers - which was the purpose of the games up to press as far as I can tell.

I would love to have forced star brat to watch as we completely obliterated his 'solution' before watching the little turd commit AI suicide.

ART got in the way.

People who just don't understand that convetionakl mean of victory is not possible. Sad.

Must be people who played the first two games where no Deus Ex Machina was introduced in the first 30 minutes and the thematical build up was somewhat cohesive. Sad, sad indeed.

How is it a dem if the catalyst has no control over what the crucible does?

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Wait so this dlc makes merge look bad and shows it's not a good solution? Sweet that's like an insta buy for me.

It was always shown it's salution is bad. The catalyst even state that he feels his salution is bad.

NO IT DOESN'T.

I've tolerated your interpretations up til now, Dreman, as illogical as they may be. But now you're just making things up.
The Catalyst states that the solution is no longer viable due to Shepard reaching that point (an arbitrary reason if there ever was one). It NEVER states that it's solution was bad, and tries to justify it multiple times.

Moreover, House is talking about synthesis. This new DLC is shaping up to make synthesis look even worse than before.

[Kroitz]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

I like the Synthesis ending. It's Green and Pretty. I like the Control Ending. It's Blue and makes a lot of sense. I like the red ending. It's the only time i get to actually destroy the reapers - which was the purpose of the games up to press as far as I can tell.

I would love to have forced star brat to watch as we completely obliterated his 'solution' before watching the little turd commit AI suicide.

ART got in the way.

People who just don't understand that convetionakl mean of victory is not possible. Sad.

Must be people who played the first two games where no Deus Ex Machina was introduced in the first 30 minutes and the thematical build up was somewhat cohesive. Sad, sad indeed.

How is it a dem if the catalyst has no control over what the crucible does?

The crucible itself is a DEM and the catalyst shuts it down after shepard is refusing his solutions, he does control it. And also it are his solutions.

I know it was easy to overlook if you were foaming over the eyebrow-level.

Modifié par Kroitz, 07 août 2012 - 08:27 .

[Greed1914]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greed1914 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


]And that's the problem with the satution it pick. But what your not understanding is that the catalystis just a machining doing what it's programed to do. I t does care if the salution is flawed, he only cares to solve the problem it was given. It forced to solve the probelm.

But if it's truly as advanced as it claims, then surely it could acknowledge that there are better ways, or to seek new perspectives if it can't find those other ways.  EDI sought input from Shepard and the crew because she was able to alter her programming, but lacked perspective.  She collaborated in order to find out what options were available.  The Catalyst claims it is no simple AI, but something more.  Yet, it is unable to seek out help from other sources to this non-existent problem.  The whole point of putting an AI in charge of finding a solution is that it is supposed to be able to go beyond its original programming and seek out alternatives.  It might as well be a simple VI since it goes through countless cycles seeking the exact same outcome.  

That's the problem as well. It's a shackled AI. It's forced into views that only helps it's salution. You have to understand that using EDI is not a good example because she is unshackled, she has the freddom to do what ever she wants. The catalyst is shaclked and does not have EDI's freedom. The reapers are examples of the dangers of shakled AI's. They don't take account of morality to it's choices, it only thinks to doing it's programing no matter what, even it if means  billions die.
A shackled Ai ether has to be freed ,reprogramed, destroyed or given a new way to do it's programing to stop it.

Then why does it claim to be some sort of ultra-advanced AI?  It talks about how calling it an AI would be like saying humans are just animals.  If it's shackled, then it is no more advanced than a standard AI.  If it is shackled, as you say, then it is either lying or has an inflated ego, which doesn't sound like something a shackled AI is capable of.  Either way, I cannot trust what I'm being told by it. 

[Twinzam.V]

Greed1914 wrote...

Then why does it claim to be some sort of ultra-advanced AI?  It talks about how calling it an AI would be like saying humans are just animals.  If it's shackled, then it is no more advanced than a standard AI.  If it is shackled, as you say, then it is either lying or has an inflated ego, which doesn't sound like something a shackled AI is capable of.  Either way, I cannot trust what I'm being told by it. 

I bet its an inflated ego. 
He tries to be like HAL but has the brains of a blender.

[Archontor]

Consider this: Every DLC undermine's the Catalyst a bit more. Javik's people defeating the machines. Leviathan showing synthesis as crazy (and apparently we can say as much). It may be a bit early to leap to conclusions but is it not a distressing possibility considering EA's reigns that over the cours of single player DLCs we'll be able to develop a proper 'refuse' ending where the catalyst simply leaves djected after hislogic is destroyed? In other words selling the ending to you bit by bit.

[TSA_383]

D24O wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

did this really need another thread? not to sound rude but theres already a thread discussing this

Yes, because the OP's avatar has a fancy cat.

I wonder if BW are still keeping track of the "choice" statistics for D/C/S at the end.

Surely there can't be many people still happy to side with the reaper AI after this?

[alfaice1]

I think it has a ctrl,alt,delete switch somewhere on the citadel. at least i should have.

[Memnon]

Greed1914 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's the problem as well. It's a shackled AI. It's forced into views that only helps it's salution. You have to understand that using EDI is not a good example because she is unshackled, she has the freddom to do what ever she wants. The catalyst is shaclked and does not have EDI's freedom. The reapers are examples of the dangers of shakled AI's. They don't take account of morality to it's choices, it only thinks to doing it's programing no matter what, even it if means  billions die.
A shackled Ai ether has to be freed ,reprogramed, destroyed or given a new way to do it's programing to stop it.

Then why does it claim to be some sort of ultra-advanced AI?  It talks about how calling it an AI would be like saying humans are just animals.  If it's shackled, then it is no more advanced than a standard AI.  If it is shackled, as you say, then it is either lying or has an inflated ego, which doesn't sound like something a shackled AI is capable of.  Either way, I cannot trust what I'm being told by it. 

Dreman makes the conclusion that since the Catalyst says it will be forced to accept our solution, that means it's shackled. I maintain if it was shackled, it never would have turned on its masters in the first place ... 

Modifié par Stornskar, 07 août 2012 - 08:48 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Archontor wrote...

Consider this: Every DLC undermine's the Catalyst a bit more. Javik's people defeating the machines. Leviathan showing synthesis as crazy (and apparently we can say as much). It may be a bit early to leap to conclusions but is it not a distressing possibility considering EA's reigns that over the cours of single player DLCs we'll be able to develop a proper 'refuse' ending where the catalyst simply leaves djected after hislogic is destroyed? In other words selling the ending to you bit by bit.

I doubt we'll see that, but I'll be amused to no end if this leak turns out ot be true. For them to have to do this amount of tweaking to make a conclusion make some semblence of sense.

[Mazebook]

Stornskar wrote...

Greed1914 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's the problem as well. It's a shackled AI. It's forced into views that only helps it's salution. You have to understand that using EDI is not a good example because she is unshackled, she has the freddom to do what ever she wants. The catalyst is shaclked and does not have EDI's freedom. The reapers are examples of the dangers of shakled AI's. They don't take account of morality to it's choices, it only thinks to doing it's programing no matter what, even it if means  billions die.
A shackled Ai ether has to be freed ,reprogramed, destroyed or given a new way to do it's programing to stop it.

Then why does it claim to be some sort of ultra-advanced AI?  It talks about how calling it an AI would be like saying humans are just animals.  If it's shackled, then it is no more advanced than a standard AI.  If it is shackled, as you say, then it is either lying or has an inflated ego, which doesn't sound like something a shackled AI is capable of.  Either way, I cannot trust what I'm being told by it. 

Dreman makes the conclusion that since the Catalyst says it will be forced to accept our solution, that means it's shackled. I maintain if it was shackled, it never would have turned on its masters in the first place ... 

oh man...
But it did not turn on them! it did what is was suppose to do...the creators just did not thought of this possiblity or ignored it...which is very common among organics...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Archontor wrote...

Consider this: Every DLC undermine's the Catalyst a bit more. Javik's people defeating the machines. Leviathan showing synthesis as crazy (and apparently we can say as much). It may be a bit early to leap to conclusions but is it not a distressing possibility considering EA's reigns that over the cours of single player DLCs we'll be able to develop a proper 'refuse' ending where the catalyst simply leaves djected after hislogic is destroyed? In other words selling the ending to you bit by bit.

I doubt we'll see that, but I'll be amused to no end if this leak turns out ot be true. For them to have to do this amount of tweaking to make a conclusion make some semblence of sense.

there is nothing new in these leaked dialoge what you could not have concluded yourself. 

Modifié par maaaze, 07 août 2012 - 08:54 .

[almondroy]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Boy is he flawed.

This AI turned on it's creators to form it's calculated process and arrived at a work around.

He still doesn't account for variables each cycle.

What a ****ing mess this is.

Well, if you think of how many 50k year cycles preceded the Prothean one, let alone the current cycle, we could just be looking at data/hardware degradation or corruption as the cause for the illogical behavior the Catalyst is displaying.

Maybe someone just needs to run Disk Defragmenter on the Crucible?

[eye basher]

The catalyst is a flawed machine given an impossible task to acommplish.

[comrade gando]

Taboo-XX wrote...

FALLACIES. FALLACIES.

I've been saying this for months.

He doesn't lie, he truly has no concept of what the **** he's doing.

Kind of like the lead writer of this garbage. If he has no intention of making sense of this and just is trying to sell off the catalyst as a believable character he needs to just stop, it's BLATANTLY obvious he's just stumbling all over himself trying to write some kind of explanation for the ending of the game.

[AresKeith]

abandon thread Maaaze is here

[JShepppp]

Greed1914 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


]And that's the problem with the satution it pick. But what your not understanding is that the catalystis just a machining doing what it's programed to do. I t does care if the salution is flawed, he only cares to solve the problem it was given. It forced to solve the probelm.

But if it's truly as advanced as it claims, then surely it could acknowledge that there are better ways, or to seek new perspectives if it can't find those other ways.  EDI sought input from Shepard and the crew because she was able to alter her programming, but lacked perspective.  She collaborated in order to find out what options were available.  The Catalyst claims it is no simple AI, but something more.  Yet, it is unable to seek out help from other sources to this non-existent problem.  The whole point of putting an AI in charge of finding a solution is that it is supposed to be able to go beyond its original programming and seek out alternatives.  It might as well be a simple VI since it goes through countless cycles seeking the exact same outcome.  

EDI is unshackled. The Catalyst can only focus on its goal, and it readily accepts the Reapers as imperfect because (a) they weren't the first choice and ( it views the Crucible's options as better. 


I'm guessing (opinion) that the Catalyst was given tons of processing power but was shackled to its purpose because its creators probably realized they couldn't comprehend all the variables involved in eternal synthetic/organic peace and thought that something with massive processing power could.

It was never made to care about morals. Pretty much every common disagreement with the Catalyst's line of thought can be traced to a constraint of its inherent programming.