1085 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Archontor wrote...

Consider this: Every DLC undermine's the Catalyst a bit more. Javik's people defeating the machines. Leviathan showing synthesis as crazy (and apparently we can say as much). It may be a bit early to leap to conclusions but is it not a distressing possibility considering EA's reigns that over the cours of single player DLCs we'll be able to develop a proper 'refuse' ending where the catalyst simply leaves djected after hislogic is destroyed? In other words selling the ending to you bit by bit.

I doubt we'll see that, but I'll be amused to no end if this leak turns out ot be true. For them to have to do this amount of tweaking to make a conclusion make some semblence of sense.

there is nothing new in these leaked dialoge what you could not have concluded yourself. 

It'll just confirm things I already suspected, but that just seems to justify my dislike of the conclusion for the series.

[JShepppp]

AresKeith wrote...

abandon thread Maaaze is here

I feel bad, but for some reason I lol'd.

But Maaaze has good ideas...

[D24O]

JShepppp wrote...

EDI is unshackled. The Catalyst can only focus on its goal, and it readily accepts the Reapers as imperfect because (a) they weren't the first choice and ( it views the Crucible's options as better. 


I'm guessing (opinion) that the Catalyst was given tons of processing power but was shackled to its purpose because its creators probably realized they couldn't comprehend all the variables involved in eternal synthetic/organic peace and thought that something with massive processing power could.

It was never made to care about morals. Pretty much every common disagreement with the Catalyst's line of thought can be traced to a constraint of its inherent programming.

Or maybe it was shackled because its creators thought they did understand all the variables, but were dead wrong. Literally.

[Mazebook]

AresKeith wrote...

abandon thread Maaaze is here

WRARWWWW HARG HRRR....



no seriously i don´t get this thread...the lines change absolutly nothing of the trustworthyness of the catalyst.

He gives a little more details on his experiments...okay...we already knew what he was capable of... he created the reapers for christ sake.

[JShepppp]

D24O wrote...

JShepppp wrote...

EDI is unshackled. The Catalyst can only focus on its goal, and it readily accepts the Reapers as imperfect because (a) they weren't the first choice and ( it views the Crucible's options as better. 


I'm guessing (opinion) that the Catalyst was given tons of processing power but was shackled to its purpose because its creators probably realized they couldn't comprehend all the variables involved in eternal synthetic/organic peace and thought that something with massive processing power could.

It was never made to care about morals. Pretty much every common disagreement with the Catalyst's line of thought can be traced to a constraint of its inherent programming.

Or maybe it was shackled because its creators thought they did understand all the variables, but were dead wrong. Literally.

Punny. lol

[Xamufam]

The Angry One wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

It would be hilarious if we had conversations with Leviathan in which he defends the logic of space kid.

Listen Shepard, when I try to kill you, AM I AT WAR?

Leviathan: "Conflict is bad, conflict is the reason this whole cycle started."

Shepard: "But the Reapers are at war with us."

Leviathan: "They may be in conflict with you, but they are not at war."

Shepard: ".... wait, you said *conflict* was bad, not just all out war. Any conflict!"

Leviathan: "...... damn that stupid kid's logic filling my mind with nonsense again!"

Shepard: "Kid? What kid?"

Leviathan: "You'll see... meh heh heh heh..."

Shepard: "... what's with the creepy laugh? You trying to intimidate me? I'm not afraid!"

Leviathan: "You will be..... you will be."

[Funkdrspot]

Great debating so far, not the typical angsty, bitter garbage we usually get here.

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

abandon thread Maaaze is here

WRARWWWW HARG HRRR....



no seriously i don´t get this thread...the lines change absolutly nothing of the trustworthyness of the catalyst.

He gives a little more details on his experiments...okay...we already knew what he was capable of... he created the reapers for christ sake.

It's more to do with the perception of synthesis as an option, and the central conflict presented, I think.

[Mazebook]

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

abandon thread Maaaze is here

WRARWWWW HARG HRRR....



no seriously i don´t get this thread...the lines change absolutly nothing of the trustworthyness of the catalyst.

He gives a little more details on his experiments...okay...we already knew what he was capable of... he created the reapers for christ sake.

It's more to do with the perception of synthesis as an option, and the central conflict presented, I think.

yeah...but synthesis was always a leap of faith...the consequences are unknown to you at that point...

you may chose it or not depending on you stance on life itself...

[R3MUS]

So... The Catalyst doesn't want to kill us and harvest each species? He knows he is wrong and doing wrong things BUT can't control himself?

Man... That sounds epic.

[Mcfly616]

comrade gando wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

FALLACIES. FALLACIES.

I've been saying this for months.

He doesn't lie, he truly has no concept of what the **** he's doing.

Kind of like the lead writer of this garbage. If he has no intention of making sense of this and just is trying to sell off the catalyst as a believable character he needs to just stop, it's BLATANTLY obvious he's just stumbling all over himself trying to write some kind of explanation for the ending of the game.

it already makes sense....the Catalyst's character makes sense.....Taboo just made sense of it for you lol....the Catalyst is actually pretty believable within the sci fi genre considering the basic outline of its character and the implications of the choices provided, have all been used before(in some way, shape or form)

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...

yeah...but synthesis was always a leap of faith...the consequences are unknown to you at that point...

you may chose it or not depending on you stance on life itself...

Not just life but what synthesis also represents, the conflict the Catalyst is convinced will occur and all he has done to prevent it. The context of it might give people a different perspecitve on the issue. We'll see I guess.

[JPR1964]

more horsecrap is coming, nice...

JPR out!

[TSA_383]

Filament wrote...

When was it ever a matter of trusting the Catalyst? That never factored into my decision.

Well some people liked to assume that a reaper AI's idea of what "synthesis" meant might actually be desirable...
No idea why.

[RadicalDisconnect]

A few problems with the dialogue. Your summary says that Leviathan is the first reaper, and was unsuccessful, and that Harbinger became the first successful reaper. This would mean the Leviathan is older than Harbinger. However, the "failed synthesis" experiment occurred "several cycles ago." So in short, what?!?!?

[shepskisaac]

I don't see any confirmation in the leaked files that Leviathan is the attempt at Synthesis. We'll see.

The OP does A LOT of hos own interpretations. The truth is that even with the leaks, we still don't have enough information to know what exactly Leviathan is and how will it all play out in the context of the Catalyst so - wait another 2 weeks or so instead of already jumping to conclusions.

[comrade gando]

I think catalyst is making stuff up on the spot, just like the lead writer was making stuff up on the spot and calling it his vision.

[legion999]

I never trusted it before though.

[TSA_383]

IsaacShep wrote...

I don't see any confirmation in the leaked files that Leviathan is the attempt at Synthesis. We'll see.

The OP does A LOT of hos own interpretations. The truth is that even with the leaks, we still don't have enough information to know what exactly Leviathan is and how will it all play out in the context of the Catalyst so - wait another 2 weeks or so instead of already jumping to conclusions.

Not "confirmation" per se, just connecting the dots 
I'll be very surprised if I'm wrong 

My Logic:

Harbinger = first "true" reaper
Leviathan = Creators of the reapers
Catalyst = Harvested Leviathans, created a reaper which rebelled. Discusses how the Leviathan fought back, they were "unwilling". We know from the other dialogue that Leviathan appears to be a reaper, so presumably the first.
Harbinger presumably then came later and the AI was able to control it fully.

legion999 wrote...

I never trusted it before though.

 
Good. Gold star.

Modifié par TSA_383, 07 août 2012 - 11:03 .

[shepskisaac]

TSA_383 wrote...
Not "confirmation" per se, just connecting the dots

But you're presenting it as a fact. It's not until it gets confirmed in the DLC.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 07 août 2012 - 11:16 .

[Urdnot Amenark]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Oh for god's sake.
It changed it's own directive. It came up with a brand new method to solve the problem of it's new directive. It did this consciously, and creatively.

It is not a machine doing what it's told, it is fully aware of it's own actions.

Let me make it clear for you so you understand.
A machine does what it is programed to do and is a slave to it's programing if it can't change it. An AI can choose how it does it's programing.
It's creator gave the catalyst an opened ended quetion with no real awner to how to solve it. From the start it was allowed to pick how to solve how to solve problem is was give. It is with in it's programing to pick how to solve it.
As long as it is seeking to solve this problem it has not gone ageinst it's programing. It is still doing that. It matter not how it does it, if he find a salution  he is doing his programing.
His salution is to preserve organics. To the catalyst , this means he found a salution even if it is flawed.

Let me make this clear so YOU understand.
The solution, to preserve organics, is the solution to a problem IT MADE UP.
It's creator given directive was to end conflict between organics and synthetics. That synthetics would wipe out all organics is something it determined on it's own.

How many time must it be said to you that it's creator were the ones that felt there was a problem and forced it on the catalyst to solve it?
Where is it stated that the catalyst on it's own thought there was a synthetic /organic problem? It never pick what the problem was, it only picked the salution is.

Bingo. It picked the solution, meaning it is responsible for the events that happened later.

[EvilChaosX]

Space ass**** was proven wrong when the Quarians and the Geth became best buds.

[Tom1029]

But..... his logic is infallible!