1085 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

1) All the Catalyst seems to be saying is what it said before: it tried Synthesis at some point but failed because the organic race(s) involved were not receptive/ready/willing. It ultimately came up with the solution of harvesting organic races, and it said that the creator race was unwillingly transformed into the first Reaper(s) to carry out the harvesting.

2) The Catalyst neither specified nor equated failed Synthesis with the creation of the first Reaper(s)/Leviathan(s).

3) Even if it turns out that the creation of the Reapers/Leviathan was the result of failed Synthesis (pending more of the Leviathan dialogue), that's perfectly fine. Under those conditions, it would still be exactly what the Catalyst said: a failed attempt at merging synthetic and organic life.

4) The ultimate outcome in the EC endings is that successful Synthesis is a boon for all civilizations. Whether it's through Shepard's knowledge being shared in an instant or people's readiness and willingness to make an evolutionary leap, Synthesis ends up working this time. Who knows, maybe in the moment of transformation, there's the mental equivalent of a consent form being signed. *rolleyes*

The current dialogue doesn't seem to prove anything other than that the Catalyst is an AI that came up with one or more flawed solutions as it tried to follow its directives to the best of its abilities. And if Synthesis was its very first choice, good. That's probably what it should have been shooting for anyway.

The Catalyst's previous failure(s) only shows that not everything works the first time out. As for any implication that Synthesis was some massively evil plan for brainwashing everyone and turning them into slaves, I'm pretty sure that the resulting golden age in the Synthesis epilogue pretty much kills that idea completely (unless you're one of those people who really want to grasp at straws).

[The Angry One]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

1) All the Catalyst seems to be saying is what it said before: it tried Synthesis at some point but failed because the organic race(s) involved were not receptive/ready/willing. It ultimately came up with the solution of harvesting organic races, and it said that the creator race was unwillingly transformed into the first Reaper(s) to carry out the harvesting.

So why, exactly, should we believe that this solution is any better than Reaperisation, when this is what *it* - and no one else - desires?
Since nobody else connected the Crucible, how do you even presume that this synthesis follows the rules of the previously attempted synthesis? What if this method bypasses "consent"? Which, you know, direct DNA alteration on a galactic scale would do.

2) The Catalyst neither specified nor equated failed Synthesis with the creation of the first Reaper(s)/Leviathan(s).

It does however believe it to be an equally viable solution.

3) Even if it turns out that the creation of the Reapers/Leviathan was the result of failed Synthesis (pending more of the Leviathan dialogue), that's perfectly fine. Under those conditions, it would still be exactly what the Catalyst said: a failed attempt at merging synthetic and organic life.

The fact that you don't have a problem with this at all isn't surprising, but it's still disturbing.

4) The ultimate outcome in the EC endings is that successful Synthesis is a boon for all civilizations. Whether it's through Shepard's knowledge being shared in an instant or people's readiness and willingness to make an evolutionary leap, Synthesis ends up working this time. Who knows, maybe in the moment of transformation, there's the mental equivalent of a consent form being signed. *rolleyes*

Explain to me, right now, why Javik would mentally sign consent to become part synthetic and connected to the Reapers.

The current dialogue doesn't seem to prove anything other than that the Catalyst is an AI that came up with one or more flawed solutions as it tried to follow its directives to the best of its abilities. And if Synthesis was its very first choice, good. That's probably what it should have been shooting for anyway.

Nevermind what the galaxy wants, eh?

The Catalyst's previous failure(s) only shows that not everything works the first time out. As for any implication that Synthesis was some massively evil plan for brainwashing everyone and turning them into slaves, I'm pretty sure that the resulting golden age in the Synthesis epilogue pretty much kills that idea completely (unless you're one of those people who really want to grasp at straws).

Speaking of straws... what golden age? Infrastructure rebuilt and EDI spouting propaganda while the Reaper's victims smile at them? 
Once again Atreiya superimposes her headcanon onto the ending and presents it as fact. No surprises there.

Modifié par The Angry One, 07 août 2012 - 11:55 .

[Ukomba]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

1) All the Catalyst seems to be saying is what it said before: it tried Synthesis at some point but failed because the organic race(s) involved were not receptive/ready/willing. It ultimately came up with the solution of harvesting organic races, and it said that the creator race was unwillingly transformed into the first Reaper(s) to carry out the harvesting.

2) The Catalyst neither specified nor equated failed Synthesis with the creation of the first Reaper(s)/Leviathan(s).

3) Even if it turns out that the creation of the Reapers/Leviathan was the result of failed Synthesis (pending more of the Leviathan dialogue), that's perfectly fine. Under those conditions, it would still be exactly what the Catalyst said: a failed attempt at merging synthetic and organic life.

4) The ultimate outcome in the EC endings is that successful Synthesis is a boon for all civilizations. Whether it's through Shepard's knowledge being shared in an instant or people's readiness and willingness to make an evolutionary leap, Synthesis ends up working this time. Who knows, maybe in the moment of transformation, there's the mental equivalent of a consent form being signed. *rolleyes*

The current dialogue doesn't seem to prove anything other than that the Catalyst is an AI that came up with one or more flawed solutions as it tried to follow its directives to the best of its abilities. And if Synthesis was its very first choice, good. That's probably what it should have been shooting for anyway.

The Catalyst's previous failure(s) only shows that not everything works the first time out. As for any implication that Synthesis was some massively evil plan for brainwashing everyone and turning them into slaves, I'm pretty sure that the resulting golden age in the Synthesis epilogue pretty much kills that idea completely (unless you're one of those people who really want to grasp at straws).

The synthasis ending seems more like, once the curcible docked with the citadel, the catalyst realised it now had the power to force synthesis successfuly.  It's not like the blast just effected the races that were capable of understanding and accepting the change, even the trees were effected.

[AresKeith]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

1) All the Catalyst seems to be saying is what it said before: it tried Synthesis at some point but failed because the organic race(s) involved were not receptive/ready/willing. It ultimately came up with the solution of harvesting organic races, and it said that the creator race was unwillingly transformed into the first Reaper(s) to carry out the harvesting.

2) The Catalyst neither specified nor equated failed Synthesis with the creation of the first Reaper(s)/Leviathan(s).

3) Even if it turns out that the creation of the Reapers/Leviathan was the result of failed Synthesis (pending more of the Leviathan dialogue), that's perfectly fine. Under those conditions, it would still be exactly what the Catalyst said: a failed attempt at merging synthetic and organic life.

4) The ultimate outcome in the EC endings is that successful Synthesis is a boon for all civilizations. Whether it's through Shepard's knowledge being shared in an instant or people's readiness and willingness to make an evolutionary leap, Synthesis ends up working this time. Who knows, maybe in the moment of transformation, there's the mental equivalent of a consent form being signed. *rolleyes*

The current dialogue doesn't seem to prove anything other than that the Catalyst is an AI that came up with one or more flawed solutions as it tried to follow its directives to the best of its abilities. And if Synthesis was its very first choice, good. That's probably what it should have been shooting for anyway.

The Catalyst's previous failure(s) only shows that not everything works the first time out. As for any implication that Synthesis was some massively evil plan for brainwashing everyone and turning them into slaves, I'm pretty sure that the resulting golden age in the Synthesis epilogue pretty much kills that idea completely (unless you're one of those people who really want to grasp at straws).

most of this comment sounds like grasping at straws

do you really thing anyone would want Synthesis, forcing people to have there DNA changed

The Leviathan even proves the Catalyst wrong that he controls the Reapers since theres a Rogue Reaper out

Modifié par AresKeith, 07 août 2012 - 11:58 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Greed1914 wrote...

solution to the "problem?" 

...

That is some frightening diction.

[RadicalDisconnect]

A few pieces of dialogue from the Catalyst that I found from the leak.

"But they do not seeking your destruction. They are simply following my instruction." - I assume "they" are the Reapers.

Also, is the failed synthesis experiment Leviathan? I'm getting contradictory dialogue about this.

[hoodaticus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I think it's simply a machine that wants a solution and it can't do it.

So, just like a machine, it harvests synthetics and organics and says it's peace. But it isn't really a solution.

It's a work around. So is Synthesis. He's trying to solve it through the most blunt manner possible. LITERALLY fusing the two together.

That's right Taboo. Now you getting it. He is a machine doing what he is programed to do. He is a slave to his programing. People have been saying this for weeks after ec.

Everything and everyone is a slave to its programming.  The Catalyst may as well be human.

Free will is nothing more and nothing less than the mind choosing what it is programmed to prefer.
- Jonathan Edwards, Religious Affections (1746)

Modifié par hoodaticus, 08 août 2012 - 12:06 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Nyoka wrote...

Listen Shepard, when I try to kill you, AM I AT WAR?

Don't even joke about that. 

[Jvolikas]

As someone on the first page said, sounds like a muddled mess. Be interested to see how it actually plays out.

[Ukomba]

hoodaticus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I think it's simply a machine that wants a solution and it can't do it.

So, just like a machine, it harvests synthetics and organics and says it's peace. But it isn't really a solution.

It's a work around. So is Synthesis. He's trying to solve it through the most blunt manner possible. LITERALLY fusing the two together.

That's right Taboo. Now you getting it. He is a machine doing what he is programed to do. He is a slave to his programing. People have been saying this for weeks after ec.

Everything and everyone is a slave to its programming.  The Catalyst may as well be human.

Free will is nothing more and nothing less than the mind choosing what it is programmed to prefer.
- Jonathan Edwards, Religious Affections (1746)

Bender: So do you know I'm going to do something before I do it?
God Entity: Yes.
Bender: What if I do something else?
God Entity: Then I don't know that.

[JSwisha]

Sounds like more bull**** to me. Just cut starkid and be done with it. Stop adding to this cluster**** of a mess.

Are people honestly going to buy this?

[WarGriffin]

Taboo-XX wrote...

FALLACIES. FALLACIES.

I've been saying this for months.

He doesn't lie, he truly has no concept of what the **** he's doing.

The kid form is now ironic not contrive...


Also You've now made the Reapers even less compelling villians cause thier boss is bordering on full mental ******

no wait that's an insult to people with actaul mentl problems

[TMA LIVE]

So... The first Reaper was forced to be made by Reapers? What?

I think I might need some clarification if robots Reapers came first. And true Reaper, aka Harb, is the organic kind.

[High Kicks]

I just thought of something.

If this is all true, then doesn't this make what Balak said fishy?
He said that Leviathan indoctrinated the scientist and rolled out the red carpet when the Reapers got to their system. But, if Leviathan's indoctrination is different because you keep your wits about you then why would the scientist help with the invasion? Levi is a rogue reaper, right? Its mind is different than the Reapers like Harby, so why indoctrinate the same as them? Or am I reading too much into it?

[survivor_686]

I never did trust Starbrat

[dorktainian]

don't forget it's art.

that is all......

[Demon560]

Don't forget to cut out that Stargazer dude, no point in him either just Buzz whatshisname getting voice over time and bumbing everyone else.

[magnuskn]

How... can an entire civilizations be harvested against its will to create the first Reaper when there are no Reapers yet? Did I miss that the Catalyst itself was part of one of those synthetic races which he so much opposes? One synthetic race that hated itself so very, very much?

[snfonseka]

MattFini wrote...

If true, this sounds like a muddled mess.

Isn't it already a muddled mess?

[SoldierGryphon]

I wish it was like Fallout 3 where you could talk him into realizing his faulty logic and then self-destructs. The Reapers are then deactivated.

[Clayless]

We need more context, this is like hearing one side of a telephone conversation.

[Yakko77]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If this is true, Synthesis is going to take another beating.

Exactly.  How is the Synthesis ending not forcing Synthesis on the galaxy which seemingly created this rogue Reaper?  Dear God, just when I thought I couldn't hate the "preferred" synthesis ending any more... BW is doubling down on the craptacular circular logic and are instead turning it into a slinky of circular logic.  *facedesk*

Dear God BW, just face facts and accept that most players from what I've read prefer the destroy ending no matter how much you tried to break it with killing the Geth and EDI and just give us a freakin' reunion ending so we can move on already.  Then I'd have reason to buy this DLC and future SP SLC.

[Yakko77]

SoldierGryphon wrote...

I wish it was like Fallout 3 where you could talk him into realizing his faulty logic and then self-destructs. The Reapers are then deactivated.

Yet another awesome option that we don't have that a fan came up with that "professional" writers couldn't be bothered with.  While I love it when such great ideas are brought up I kind of dislike it too as it makes me dislike the last 10 minutes even more... even with EC.

[Yakko77]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Listen Shepard, when I try to kill you, AM I AT WAR?

Don't even joke about that. 

They're killing us to preserve us to keep us from creating that which  they are themselves which will eventually kill us even though Shep can bring peace between the two forms of life (Geth and Quarians saved) but we're doomed anyways....  It makes total sense!!!!  <_<

Modifié par Yakko77, 08 août 2012 - 07:23 .

[TSA_383]

magnuskn wrote...

How... can an entire civilizations be harvested against its will to create the first Reaper when there are no Reapers yet? Did I miss that the Catalyst itself was part of one of those synthetic races which he so much opposes? One synthetic race that hated itself so very, very much?

Remember in Overlord where Cerberus attempt to make an organic/synthetic hybrid AI?
Just the software getting into the system is enough to take control of the whole facility due to defense systems and such.
I presume this would be similar.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

We need more context, this is like hearing one side of a telephone conversation.

 
Shepard's lines are in the pastebin file.

Yakko77 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If this is true, Synthesis is going to take another beating.

Exactly.  How is the Synthesis ending not forcing Synthesis on the galaxy which seemingly created this rogue Reaper?  Dear God, just when I thought I couldn't hate the "preferred" synthesis ending any more... BW is doubling down on the craptacular circular logic and are instead turning it into a slinky of circular logic.  *facedesk*

Dear God BW, just face facts and accept that most players from what I've read prefer the destroy ending no matter how much you tried to break it with killing the Geth and EDI and just give us a freakin' reunion ending so we can move on already.  Then I'd have reason to buy this DLC and future SP SLC.

 
Things aren't what they seem, the catalyst is lieing to you.
Just saying. I doubt any of the choices do what you think they do.