557 réponses à ce sujet

[Essalor]

Yes, I said it.

You play the game for a 100 hours (about the same time as all of ME trilogy combined), you get all your choices matter and resolved in the end. You don't argue about the origins of the mysterious threat because it makes it more eveil this way, you just go on and defeat it and if you die, well... you chose it and it was a difficult one!

And no matter what you do you get an ending that reflects all your choices starting with the one of the character to play.

For me, just to imagine such complexity and how well it was resolved, makes the ending of this game an art more so than the forced philosophy of ME. Did i say that DA:O stays always true to the lore, and doesn't make a backflip in the last minutes? Oh well... 

I guess the point is, that when Bioware was saying that ME3 endings would consider our choices, that's what I and many other people were expecting. Bioware had a great precedent of a great ending in DA:O. The problem is no matter how many times you can talk about art, the ending of ME3 will always remain a negative or at the very least controversial point in the franchize while DA:O will be fondly remembered by most.

[edited]
Due to the confusion as to what I mean by DA:O ending is art. It is not my wish to tell that a videogame ending is an art in itself or an ending to anything for that matter. DA:O is art in its whole, ME series is an in its whole just as videogames, movies, theatre etc. 

However it is my opinion that DA:O ending is vastly superior due to it's coherent and logical narrative, abundance of meaningful choices and lack of new lore breaking characters introduced in the final moments. If ME3 ending is being defendent by it's creators as "an artistic vision" then they should look closely at the products they released just a few years ago.

Art =/= good or bad. DA:O ending is good, ME3 is bad. Both are part of the art which is storytelling in videogames. 

Modifié par Essalor, 11 août 2012 - 12:42 .

[Iakus]

I don't know if it's "art" but it's closer to it than ME3 was. The ending was consistent with the story. and while no ending was "perfect" but your choices shaped the outcome, you could create an ending to suit your story.

[BatmanPWNS]

I disagree about art since games aren't art to me but I felt like crying after finishing it because it was so beautiful.

[Darth Death]

Ah, yes. 'Art.' An excuse to maintain pride in a horribly done product. We have dismissed that claim.

[Vox Draco]

I don't like throwing that "art"-thingy around.

DAO-Endings fitted the story and gave each player plenty of ways to conclude the story:

Sacrifice yourself? Check 

Sacrifice the seconfary-villain? Check

Sacrifice you longterm-companion? Check

Choose the way out, with unknown consequences,
offered by you by a character with you throughout the game? Check

No forced sacrifice, no last-minute-silliness? Check

The craving to play the game again? Check

[Atakuma]

The ending of DAO did not reflect any of your choices.

[devSin]

The Origins ending is good.

It's not a question of "art".

[flanny]

iakus wrote...

I don't know if it's "art" but it's closer to it than ME3 was. The ending was consistent with the story. and while no ending was "perfect" but your choices shaped the outcome, you could create an ending to suit your story.

lol

[Chaotic-Fusion]

The ending of origins was beatiful, no doubt. Bioware in its prime.

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I disagree about art since games aren't art to me but I felt like crying after finishing it because it was so beautiful.

I understand that people might play games exclusively to be entertained, and therefore don't consider the medium to be art, but if a game manages to elicit such a strong emotional reaction from you, how can it be anything but?

[Pantegana]

Well let's say that if videogames were art their core feature would be interaction with the user-spectator. Just like the core feature of movies are moving images, the core feature of music is a combination of rythm and melody and the core feature of a painting is a still image.
DA:O is a completely interactive ending for it leaves the user an ecceptional degree of freedom in determining the outcome and is still influenced by the developement of the entire story as it has been influenced by the user's behaviour.
The same doesn't go for ME3's ending in which the degree of freedom is lower than in DA:O and the influence of what the user has done in the game (and in the previous chapters) is lower too.

So I definitely and unconditionally agree with the OP: DA:O's ending is pure videogame art. ME3's isn't.

[Captain_Obvious]

I thought it was fine at the time, but the whole epilogue-slide-show thing is just becoming more and more annoying to me, no matter which company is doing it.

[Vox Draco]

Flog61 wrote...
What more could you want?

Oh....just that made me all the happier and content with DAO endings lately...a wonderful cure to the ME3-ending-debacle...I am such a romantic cynic...

http://dragonage.nex...s.com/mods/1839

[Pitznik]

Dragon Age: Origins ending is pretty cliche Hollywood ending. Which is still good, and feels good. But it is not really art.

Planescape: Torment is probably closest to catharsis I felt at the end of the video game. That makes it art, in my opinion.

[jeffyg93]

 So brave

[MegaSovereign]

So is my shotgun.

[Atakuma]

Flog61 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The ending of DAO did not reflect any of your choices.

Funny because i swear that i summoned a horde of werewolves and mages in the final battle which some people may not have seen.

The biggest decisions in the game amount to nothing more than a model swap at the end. 

And in the celebration afterwards your chats with companions change.

Only superficially. It's still exactly the same scene just with some character variation.

You decide what you want to do with your Boon

Which has no affect on anything.

You choose what to do after.

Another choice that has no effect on anything.

The written epilogue slides reveal enough to leave you satisfied but still hungry for more.

What more could you want?

I want th consequences of my choices to have a meaningdful effect on the game and not be confined to a slideshow at the end.

[jeffyg93]

I don't think many people here know what "art" means. You guys are using the word like something can be more "art" than other things. You guys sound like little kids who just first heard a big word and are now trying to either mock it or, in this case, are trying to fit in into everything.

[Vox Draco]

Pitznik wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins ending is pretty cliche Hollywood ending. Which is still good, and feels good. But it is not really art.

Planescape: Torment is probably closest to catharsis I felt at the end of the video game. That makes it art, in my opinion.

Because PST was from the point you woke up in the morgue a game fully focused on philosophy and deeper meanings etc. The ending of PST was far from being "happy", but it was still perfect for the game you played for many hours, it prepared you for this ending properly, and so the player wasn't really dissapointed the Nameless One didn't settle down with Annah or Grace to live happily ever after...

And that's also why ME3-ending fails so utterly...it is just not consistent with the overall game and story.

[blueumi]

dragon age 1 i had a better ending it made sense and I don't see how you can even put the mess that is mass effect 3s ending on the same level as dragon age 1

now if you are talking about dragon age 2 even that had a better ending then mass effect 3

[Greed1914]

Vox Draco wrote...

I don't like throwing that "art"-thingy around.

DAO-Endings fitted the story and gave each player plenty of ways to conclude the story:

Sacrifice yourself? Check 

Sacrifice the seconfary-villain? Check

Sacrifice you longterm-companion? Check

Choose the way out, with unknown consequences,
offered by you by a character with you throughout the game? Check

No forced sacrifice, no last-minute-silliness? Check

The craving to play the game again? Check

Oh no!  Those sound like options based on the player's decisions!  We certainly wouldn't want those in a video game.

Modifié par Greed1914, 07 août 2012 - 07:36 .