557 réponses à ce sujet

[coles4971]

da:o's ending is f*cking awesome

KILL BIG BAD CUT TO CELEBRATIONS

<3333

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

I've played NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer.  Good games.

DAO was better.  Even if the plot wasn't that original, it was told well and stayed consistent.  As opposed to ME3 which decided it was set in the 40k universe in the last ten minutes.

Once again, in a universe set up by the conflict between the created and their creators.....we have a villian that fits right in, embodying the conflict.

Sorry, it works, you just don't like it.

Its not like you won ME1 all by yourself.....oh wait you didn't. There was Deus Ex Machina involved.

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

I've played NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer.  Good games.

DAO was better.  Even if the plot wasn't that original, it was told well and stayed consistent.  As opposed to ME3 which decided it was set in the 40k universe in the last ten minutes.

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

[Nightwriter]

txgoldrush wrote...

you have the same character archtypes a sparty members

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

DAO lacks thematic cohesion

lack of character development

elack of plot participation in the party characters.

Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order

you have four special quests to achieve the plot

you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

THE GALL. HOW DARE THEY. WHY DIDN'T THEY MAKE THEIR GAME ABOUT THE COGNITIVE DISSONANCE OF TEMPLARS WHO READ HARRY POTTER, THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Once again, in a universe set up by the conflict between the created and their creators.....we have a villian that fits right in, embodying the conflict.

Sorry, it works, you just don't like it.

Its not like you won ME1 all by yourself.....oh wait you didn't. There was Deus Ex Machina involved.

Funny, I thought the conflict was cycles of destruction and learning to break them and make your own destiny.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...


Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

Subplots overtake the main narrative...

like rebelling synthetics, maybe?


And now you're knocking KOTOR?

I'm finding your sig funnier and funnier.

Modifié par iakus, 09 août 2012 - 12:34 .

[Foolsfolly]

iakus wrote...

I don't know if it's "art" but it's closer to it than ME3 was. The ending was consistent with the story. and while no ending was "perfect" but your choices shaped the outcome, you could create an ending to suit your story.

I don't know. My casteless dwarf criminal that cares for no one but himself but grew to learn of the importance of self-sacrfice as so dies saving the world but pretty close to a "perfect" ending in my opinion. That's still my favorite ending and character in that and he was my second character.

That was a nice ending. My family got raised to Paragon status, they have a funeral were the man I made King gives the euology. I mean it was a good ending. Sad and satisfying.

ME3 could have learned a lot from that ending.

Probably most important was how no magic child appeared at the end to tell us all the themes and morals of the game are for nothing and that all races in Thedas should merge with the darkspawn to ensure peace.

[Essalor]

txgoldrush wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

No, he isn't. I agree with him.

DAO's ending relied on a very used, very tired formula. The Dragon of Doom is slain, there is a coronation, everyone is happy.
It's a typical fantasy ending that has been seen countless times. It worked in the sense it gave the player the feeling of satisfaction but it's still a very cliched ending apart from the Epilogue Cards.

ME3's ending took risks. It introduced a problem to which there was no perfect solution, only three options that with both positves and negatives. It made us think, it mades us debate. And I loved that about it.

Tired formula?

The only thing I'm tired of is people rejecting good writing just because it follows old patterns and praising bad writing just because it follows new patterns.

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

The fact that the main theme of DA:O is good vs evil doesn't make it thematically inchoerent. 
What's important is that it's logically coherent and the story no matter how tired and true feels solid.

[blueumi]

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

I've played NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer.  Good games.

DAO was better.  Even if the plot wasn't that original, it was told well and stayed consistent.  As opposed to ME3 which decided it was set in the 40k universe in the last ten minutes.

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

you insult dragon age and kotr both of which havae more fans and have done better then dragon age 2 which by the way you also didn't think much of

I guess you just like mass effect even if it ends in a confused mess with sheard being dead

I am a shepard fan thats why sheaprd should have a better ending

[Nightwriter]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

Okay, I'm starting to understand.

You are confusing DA:O with ME2. Understandable, since in both games you are able to go to bars and purchase drinks, so who wouldn't get them confused?

We are talking about the one with dragons.

[Tritium315]

txgoldrush wrote...


Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

So?

[Iakus]

Tritium315 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

So?

There is nothing new under the sun.  All you caqn do is tell it well.

Modifié par iakus, 09 août 2012 - 01:07 .

[TamiBx]

I agree completely. DAO ending left me with a feeling that I saved the world(or the country).
ME3 left me feeling like I just picked a color...and have no clue what happened to my main character.

[txgoldrush]

Nightwriter wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

Okay, I'm starting to understand.

You are confusing DA:O with ME2. Understandable, since in both games you are able to go to bars and purchase drinks, so who wouldn't get them confused?

We are talking about the one with dragons.

Wrong

ME2's story ties much better to the main plot.

Why?

Theme. Every quest have something in common....to recruit a team member and earn their loyalty, while keeping the theme of loyalty throughout the story and the finale. What helps is that they don't overpower the main plot like the quests in DAO do.

DAO does not have a clear main theme, its about everything which ends up being about nothing.

[txgoldrush]

blueumi wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

I've played NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer.  Good games.

DAO was better.  Even if the plot wasn't that original, it was told well and stayed consistent.  As opposed to ME3 which decided it was set in the 40k universe in the last ten minutes.

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

you insult dragon age and kotr both of which havae more fans and have done better then dragon age 2 which by the way you also didn't think much of

I guess you just like mass effect even if it ends in a confused mess with sheard being dead

I am a shepard fan thats why sheaprd should have a better ending

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely sacrifice him or herself.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

[blueumi]

txgoldrush wrote...

blueumi wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

I've played NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer.  Good games.

DAO was better.  Even if the plot wasn't that original, it was told well and stayed consistent.  As opposed to ME3 which decided it was set in the 40k universe in the last ten minutes.

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

you insult dragon age and kotr both of which havae more fans and have done better then dragon age 2 which by the way you also didn't think much of

I guess you just like mass effect even if it ends in a confused mess with sheard being dead

I am a shepard fan thats why sheaprd should have a better ending

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely sacrifice him or herself.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

bioware did not make that one

[txgoldrush]

blueumi wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

blueumi wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please...the use the same plot.....you join a secret special order, you have four special quests to achieve the plot, you have the same character archtypes a sparty members, you start the same as your life is turning upside down from a sudden attack.

Its lazy....and DAO is lazy. A 10 year old can write this story.

And its not good writing, DAO lacks thematic cohesion, thats BAD writing. So is the lack of character development, th elack of plot participation in the party characters. Its just throws crap on th ewall to make it stick.

Like I said, there are better RPGs similiar to DAO like NWN2 that came out years before...better written, better executed, and more ambitious.

Player Mask of the Betrayer...it makes DAO suck.

I've played NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer.  Good games.

DAO was better.  Even if the plot wasn't that original, it was told well and stayed consistent.  As opposed to ME3 which decided it was set in the 40k universe in the last ten minutes.

Wrong, having subplots overtake the main narrative is simply not good storytelling. DAO lacks consistancy in the middle game. Its actually worse than it was in KOTOR.

you insult dragon age and kotr both of which havae more fans and have done better then dragon age 2 which by the way you also didn't think much of

I guess you just like mass effect even if it ends in a confused mess with sheard being dead

I am a shepard fan thats why sheaprd should have a better ending

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely sacrifice him or herself.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

bioware did not make that one

Yep

Chris Avellone wrote it, he is much better than Drew Karpyshyn....he doesn't follow the same formula for success and he doesn't recycle his stories. He also knows how to develop characters which Bioware only started really doing ME2 and after.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 09 août 2012 - 02:37 .

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Are there any Bioware games you like besides ME2 and 3?

Modifié par iakus, 09 août 2012 - 02:38 .

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Bioware does indeed deserve better fans...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

Shepard has no way of knowing that beforehand.  

The endings fit the endgame, (those two at least) but not the forced death, and certainly not Synthesis

You didn't answer the question.  Are there any Bioware games besides ME2 and ME3 that you actually liked?

Modifié par iakus, 09 août 2012 - 02:47 .

[Essalor]

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Bioware does indeed deserve better fans...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

KOTOR was a good overall game with impressive mechanics, plot, graphics and everything. So is ME. 
The ending of KOTOR was great because of the reveal of course. That's a great story and the twist once again comes not in the last 5 minutes and screws the whole logic over. It;s like the twist in the 6th Sense: it makes sense when you look back at the movie.  

Would ME ending be good without Star Child and his stupid choices?

And once again you say that the ending is thematically consistent but your argument only works for ME3. We're closing the whole trilogy here. The theme of trilogy is certainly NOT sacrifice. It's breaking the cycle and sruvival against impossible odds and most importantly choose your own destiny. You know... like space adventure. 

Hence the ending doesn't work either logically or thematically for the whole franchise. QED

Modifié par Essalor, 09 août 2012 - 02:49 .

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Bioware does indeed deserve better fans...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

Shepard has no way of knowing that beforehand.  

The endings fit the endgame, (those two at least) but not the forced death, and certainly not Synthesis

You didn't answer the question.  

No, the forced "death" fits the theme, just like the damnation of the Nameless One in PST, or the exile of the Vault Dweller in Fallout, or the capture of the Avatar by th eGuardian in Ultima VII.....despite all the choices you made.

Deal with it. The entire game was about sacrifice.

[blueumi]

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Bioware does indeed deserve better fans...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

Shepard has no way of knowing that beforehand.  

The endings fit the endgame, (those two at least) but not the forced death, and certainly not Synthesis

You didn't answer the question.  

No, the forced "death" fits the theme, just like the damnation of the Nameless One in PST, or the exile of the Vault Dweller in Fallout, or the capture of the Avatar by th eGuardian in Ultima VII.....despite all the choices you made.

Deal with it. The entire game was about sacrifice.

ok yes man

[txgoldrush]

Essalor wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Bioware does indeed deserve better fans...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

KOTOR was a good overall game with impressive mechanics, plot, graphics and everything. So is ME. 
The ending of KOTOR was great because of the reveal of course. That's a great story and the twist once again comes not in the last 5 minutes and screws the whole logic over. It;s like the twist in the 6th Sense: it makes sense when you look back at the movie.  

Would ME ending be good without Star Child and his stupid choices?

And once again you say that the ending is thematically consistent but your argument only works for ME3. We're closing the whole trilogy here. The theme of trilogy is certainly NOT sacrifice. It's breaking the cycle and sruvival against impossible odds and most importantly choose your own destiny. You know... like space adventure. 

Hence the ending doesn't work either logically or thematically for the whole franchise. QED

Lets see.....ME3 certainly has the cycle broken, whoops. There goes your argument on that one. Survival against impossible odds.....thats not the theme, its more like doing the impossible...such as making the Starchild see that there are other possibilties that he hasn't seen or could impliment in billions of years, you know, getting the Child to admit that his methods don't work anymore.

And once again the main theme of the ENTIRE TRILOGY is the conflict between those that are created and the creators and the Starchild fits that perfectly. Or do you want to just ignore this clear argument.

[blueumi]

txgoldrush wrote...

Essalor wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Face it.

The main theme of Mass Effect 3 is sacrifice. Therefore it is appropriate that Shepard will likely  have the option to sacrifice him or herself.

Fixed that for you.  Since, you know, the players are supposed to have choices.  

Forced sacrifice isn't, after all.

And its only a confused mess to you because you don't get it.

Well, you can't argue with logic like that. 

And really KOTOR came out at the right time....if it wasn't for the Star Wars liscence or that twist, it would be nothing. And KOTOR II is better.

Bioware does indeed deserve better fans...

Please, he DOES have the option of not sacrificing himself and has an ending where Shepard lives, but at the cost of EDI and the Geth. Which fits into the theme of the game as well of leadership decisions with lives on every decision.

Nevermind that two of the endings were covered throughout the entire game with Hackett and TIM, therfore easily fit in the endgame.

Ask yourself this...if it wasn't for the twist or the Star Wars liscence, would KOTOR be that good? The sequel is far better written, and its characters are far better developed.

KOTOR was a good overall game with impressive mechanics, plot, graphics and everything. So is ME. 
The ending of KOTOR was great because of the reveal of course. That's a great story and the twist once again comes not in the last 5 minutes and screws the whole logic over. It;s like the twist in the 6th Sense: it makes sense when you look back at the movie.  

Would ME ending be good without Star Child and his stupid choices?

And once again you say that the ending is thematically consistent but your argument only works for ME3. We're closing the whole trilogy here. The theme of trilogy is certainly NOT sacrifice. It's breaking the cycle and sruvival against impossible odds and most importantly choose your own destiny. You know... like space adventure. 

Hence the ending doesn't work either logically or thematically for the whole franchise. QED

Lets see.....ME3 certainly has the cycle broken, whoops. There goes your argument on that one. Survival against impossible odds.....thats not the theme, its more like doing the impossible...such as making the Starchild see that there are other possibilties that he hasn't seen or could impliment in billions of years, you know, getting the Child to admit that his methods don't work anymore.

And once again the main theme of the ENTIRE TRILOGY is the conflict between those that are created and the creators and the Starchild fits that perfectly. Or do you want to just ignore this clear argument.

you defend star child when  I said you were a yes man I was being sarcastic   but you really are