txgoldrush wrote...
Kabraxal wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
Essalor wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
iakus wrote...
Kabraxal wrote...
DAO is pretty much the way I think most people believed the ending would be handled, excpet with a few more varioations on the endings such as the Reaper's truly winning, no need for a ritual, and varying levels of loss in comparison to DAO.
What ME3 gave us was, as it stands right now, an ending badly rushed with an antagonist thrown in at the last step and suddenly Shepard going stupid to accept what this glowing brat is saying. I'm sorry, that isn't good writing no matter how many of you wish to defend it. There was no build to the starchild, there was no logic to why Shepard would suddenly bow to its bull, and it completely altered the thematic style of the trilogy that had been built to that point.
The only way this ending can truly be salvaged to where it isn't a disappointment is either with another EC that vastly improves the epilogues to give better closure for all characters/decisions or to eventually reveal that not everything is what it seemed to begin with. Though really, any truly good designer should have known that if you build a game based on choice you damn well better offer actual choice in the end... ranging from consequences of complete loss, sorrow, darkness all the way to slightly bittersweet leaning more towards a victory well earned (newsflash, we still lose people even if we get a damned clean victory with Shepard surviving... that doesn't change the losses that have occured from ME1 onward). But instead, some designer got it into their head that they had to pound sacrifice and grim bull to be a good ending... that doesn't work in a game where not only are you offering choice, but IT DOESN"T MATCH THE PRIOR THEMATIC SETUP OF THE SERIES.
So yeah... DAO's ending is vastly superior to the moment of stupidity that is ME3's ending.
Everything you said. But the bolded part especially.
This whole "sacrifice" theme completely overrode player choice. That's...not a good thing,.
Just because you have player choice doesn't mean its better written.
Though really, any truly good designer should have known that if you build a game based on choice you damn well better offer actual choice in the end... ranging from consequences of complete loss, sorrow, darkness all the way to slightly bittersweet leaning more towards a victory well earned (newsflash, we still lose people even if we get a damned clean victory with Shepard surviving..
Guess what? Thats what the EC does.
So by this logic you agree that the Original ending was so bad it had to be retconned to boot. You should be the one admitting that even with EC the endings have a logical and lore dissonance.
I don't really remember Vigil that vividly now, and unfortunately due to the lame endings I have no wish to replay the story. That's why the endings irk so much. They don't just ruin one game. Even if DA2 had a lame ending it doesn't really relate to DA:O that much to be a game changer. In ME3 they end and therefore decide the whole franchise.
The player choice now is atrociously written. Introducing a new character in the end is not a good writing, retconning the whole franchise is not good writing, making three choices which come out of the blue is not good writing, crushing solid lore with magic is not good writing.
Wow....
1. Plenty of works have introduced a new character at the end of the story, if it was bad writing, no one would do it.
2. And how is the franchise "retconned"...nothing is retconned, unlike Leliana, Wynne, and Morrigan's deaths in Dragon Age. Also DA2's ending definitely fit the game and was far from lame....hell it starts at the end.
3. The original endings did not have lore dissonance, they were just underdeveloped and far too ambigious. But it isn't the only game that got its ending fixed this year...so did The Witcher 2. But the EC sure as hell does strengthen and easily connect better to the themes of the franchise.
4. And once again, the Destroy and Control options were talked about throughout the game, they just don;t show up out of the blue in the ending. And while synthesis does come as a suprise in ME3....Saren was a proponent for synthesis in ME1.
5. Sorry but Prothean VI's don't make "solid lore", their knowledge is limited. Hell Vendetta was wrong about the Catalyst. And as for space magic, whats "The Lazarus Project", explain that to me. Thats not only space magic, thats opening ME2 with a Deus Ex Machina.
Uh... actually those same stories are slammed for it just as much as ME3 has been. It i s just plain bad writing. It doesn't work as a RULE.
Please, explain how control and synthetic are different from one another in any really meaningful fashion? Reapers remain alive, the same races remain alive... the only difference is some space magic that makes no sense at all and the writers only want you to think it is profound in concept when it simply isn't. It's magic from nowhere with no explanation.
Destroy and refuse... the only other viable alternatives, end up in genocide regardess, with only the reapers dying now instead of later. Oooo... so different.
Thematically, all of them are smothered in grim dark "THERE MUST BE SACRFICE! " For crying out loud.. you can get the exact same endings for the most part while killing everyone in 2 and completely screwing up 3. The only difference, it's somehow even darker.
ME3's ending is the perfect example of what NOT to do with a video game ending based on offering choice and MARKETING that as a HUGE ASPECT of the franchise. But then, reading some comments from people saying they didn't want to lock out players from content based on previous choices.. we really shouldn't be surprised we got such a badly written joke of an ending. Have to appeal to the casuals you know, how dare Bioware actually craft a trilogy where the 3rd game would require 10+ runs to see every major bit of content. That was what it should have been.. instead we got "another perfect entry for first timers". The end of a trilogy... being a great entry piont.. that really should have warned us how bad that ending would be.
Please, they do lock out content....starting the game new, many of the ME2 characters are dead, Wrex is dead, Tali is exiled, and Tali and Garrus are not romancable. In fact the opposite is true, new players get shafted. New players can't bring peace between the geth and the quarians either.
They did not want to lock out entire major missions, which is fine. But do not act like choices don't matter. The future of the Krogan is determined a lot based on ME1.
Speaking of genocide or sacrifice....didn't Shepard have no choice in killing 300,000 Batarians to stop the Reapers? How about wiping out a whole geth city that was connected to the Reapers to save Quarian liveships? Face it, Destroy works because making hard choices that result in many deaths is part of the series themes.
And once again...they do explain how the Crucible works and what it is in the EC, its not space magic or not as much as say The Lazarus Project.
Face it, ME is a dark sci fi series that has the right to be dark, DAO is a wannabe grim dark power fantasy with blood decals on faces to add to "the darkness".
I just can't stop laughing... nice joke. DAO was much darker than ME1 ever was. There was hardly any "grim darkness" in ME1. Even ME2 had very little in comparison to DAO. But o.. suddenly a deus ex diablos appears with bull**** reasoning that ends in death and genocide and you people scream "THE WHOLE TRILOGY WAS DARK!"
Mass Effect was not a dark series until the final 10 minutes. It went from tough odds with teamwork and unity bringing victory to "o sorry, we don't give a **** about all that hard work" before being forcefed this starchild that makes no sense, choose 3 choices that end with genocide and death or complete magical fairies dancing around to completely change people against their will... or of course refuse and see a fit for not seeing the genius of the options offered.
Yeah... sorry, the ending does not fit the theme, tone, and promise of the seires (promises that were made by the devs by the way). And that poor ending doesn't make the whole series a grim dark world form beginning to end... there is a reason the ending is hated by a vast majority of fans. IT DOESN"T FOLLOW CONTINUITY AT ALL!
DAO was dark from teh start, had the possibility to be dark at the end and still gave us the chance to salvage a pretty good siutation from hopeless despair. Mass Effect was fairly bright from the stary then suddenly decided it was going to be an emo goth wannabe shouting out buzz words to try and fool people into thinking its cool. There is no real victory in Mass Effect, it's just varying levels of how badly you compromise yourself.
Modifié par Kabraxal, 09 août 2012 - 11:07 .
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finds out what the Conduit does, which he doesn't. Thereofre his appearance at the end of ME1 is contrived and out of the blue.
