557 réponses à ce sujet

[clos]

Anything can be called art nowadays. Literally.

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/art.jpg

[Reever]

I really should buy this game already. Along with Baldur´s gate, Jade Empire and Star Wars

[clos]

BlueDemonX wrote...

I really should buy this game already. Along with Baldur´s gate, Jade Empire and Star Wars

Baldur's Gate series is an amazing classic. I mean, the whole series was good but it's really dated by now. I spent over 300 hours on the whole series and that's without a single replay, had I replayed it I would have easily tripled that number. I also hear they are remaking it with multiplayer soon, worth a try if you want to buy it, should be cheap. In my opinion, best game they ever made. BG2 and it's xpac stood out in everything they ever did.

Jade Empire was good but not great. All I'll say about that. Worth the money for how cheap you can get it nowadays.

Star Wars: KNIGHTS of the old Republic is a great game, not as dated as Baldur's Gate. Lots of people think it's one of the best Bioware put out, if not the best.

[TheRealJayDee]

@topic

I wouldn't call DA:O's endings 'art', but they sure as hell are way more satisfying and better executed than ME3s. In regards to the Dark Ritual being an easy way out and having no consequence - blame Bioware and their unwillingness/inability to expand on it in sequels. Back when I first played DA:O it was a really hard decision for me, because I couldn't tell what it might lead to in the future. DA:O was my first Bioware game though, and by now I have learned that they just make it look like the choices you make mean anything...

iakus wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

That depressed, empty feeling was created by dozens of different psychological tactics they employed throughout the game.  It didn't just occur randomly.  That feeling is the number one argument why ME3 actually is art - especially in the original endings.

If that's "art" I'll take entertainment, thanks

Word!

MerchantGOL wrote...

Me3 makes me laugh when i see it because of things like ashley wearing makeup,

she's not wearing makeup

edi having cameltoe,

Grow Up, considering the amount of bull just like this in DA: O your being a hypocrite

ME3 Ash is not wearing makeup? Sure...!

As for the cameltoe, I can't recall the characters designers of DA:O putting something like this on any character. Then again, maybe the lesser focus on pure cinematic awesomeness in DA:O compared to ME3 resulted in a lack of the right angles to fully perceive their artistic vision of, say, Shale.

txgoldrush wrote...

Bioware has matured in its storytelling and fans are too dumb to see it.

Just how much did I miss you...!

[clos]

Flog61 wrote...

clos wrote...

Anything can be called art nowadays. Literally.

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/art.jpg

Omg thats ****ing disgusting

Now you know what I was thinking off everytime Bioware quoted their "artistic integrity" line.

[The_N7]

Atakuma wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The ending of DAO did not reflect any of your choices.

Funny because i swear that i summoned a horde of werewolves and mages in the final battle which some people may not have seen.

The biggest decisions in the game amount to nothing more than a model swap at the end. 

And in the celebration afterwards your chats with companions change.

Only superficially. It's still exactly the same scene just with some character variation.

You decide what you want to do with your Boon

Which has no affect on anything.

You choose what to do after.

Another choice that has no effect on anything.

The written epilogue slides reveal enough to leave you satisfied but still hungry for more.

What more could you want?

I want th consequences of my choices to have a meaningdful effect on the game and not be confined to a slideshow at the end.

*insert high-expectations-asian-father meme here*

Modifié par The_N7, 08 août 2012 - 10:41 .

[hoodaticus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Just wanted to say that I deeply agree with txgoldrush on pretty much everything he said. Except for DAO being overrated - it is full of cliches, and very traditional, unoriginal story, but the execution is perfect, and I don't really think it pretended to be more than it is.

No, its overrated. Neverwinter Nights 2, made 2 years before, blows DAO away, especially Mask of the Betrayer expansion.

I was going to say the same thing!  MOTB was art.

[Hendrik.III]

Flog61 wrote...

clos wrote...

Anything can be called art nowadays. Literally.

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/art.jpg

Omg thats ****ing disgusting

Hahahaha I can see the photographer creeping up on the bent-over model...
"Say cheeeeese!"

But seriously, if that's where "accepted" art is going, culture is slipping into retardedness quicker than I feared.

[hoodaticus]

Flog61 wrote...

clos wrote...

Anything can be called art nowadays. Literally.

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/art.jpg

Omg thats ****ing disgusting

At least the hole was bleached.

[Feanor_II]

Essalor wrote...

I guess the point is, that when Bioware was saying that ME3 endings would consider our choices, that's what I and many other people were expecting. Bioware had a great precedent of a great ending in DA:O. The problem is no matter how many times you can talk about art, the ending of ME3 will always remain a negative or at the very least controversial point in the franchize while DA:O will be fondly remembered by most.

I've always said that I have no problems with the endings, even more I like it.... I have no problem with the catalyst (beaside it's "brat" form) or the 3/4 choices concepts. It's also true that the original endings were narratively terrible and that the aftermath of the war is completly ignored...... But that was corrected with the Extended Cut..... yet I must agree that DA:O is better because it's more detailed..... People complained a lot about the lack of participation of ME2 squadmtes, so we get a few glimpses of what has become of them but without to much depth and everything seems too centered around them, we get a few glimpses of some of the major decisions (Geth, Krogan), but without much explanation of the political situation after the war.
I consider the EC to be good and satisfying enough but it could have gone some steeps futher.
As OP says DA:O does that much better and almost every decision has it's dark/light effects (I love that ambiguatity and being put in front of dilemas rather than an obvious good option) and everything relates at the end. I like in that sense the resolution with Orzammar, you could choice Bhelen or Harrowmoth (is written this way?), if you choose the later he is a good man, no tyrant, but goes to much on the "old ways" so in the end Orzammar continues it's decline, on the other hand there is Bhelen, he starts the social and political renewal that the drwaves need but he is machiavellical in the worst sense and quite an authoritarian... and this decision ties also with the little draf who was obsesed with mages, something that seemed almost irrelevant..... if you helped her (which seems the obvious "good" option) that also has it's impact both in Orzammar and Ferelden.... sadly we didn't get that level of complexity and detail in ME3

Finally, now that OP has used the so polemical "art" term on the subject, I would also like to "support" BW in it's artistic integrity, people like to bash it..... the endings can be better or worse.... but I value much more an author to be true and honest with his "vision" rather than trying to please me (fanservice). IMO the problem was not the "vision" but the "execution", though some people (not everyone, of course) would still complain because it doesn't meet their "dreamt ending"

"Art is not a democracy. People don't get to vote on how it ends." George R.R. Martin


P.S: I don't know why but remembering that Orzammar part made me eager to start a new DA:O game

[Maias227]

How on earth did you get a 100 hours out of Dragon Age Origins? It took me 35 or something for the main game with the dlc that happened within that storyline.

[Feanor_II]

Maias227 wrote...

How on earth did you get a 100 hours out of Dragon Age Origins? It took me 35 or something for the main game with the dlc that happened within that storyline.

Well.... I was closer to 100 than to 35..... (but i explored to last corner and made even the silliest sidequests)

35 h.... is more or less what it takes me completing ME1 and DA:O is much longer

Modifié par Feanor_II, 08 août 2012 - 11:56 .

[10K]

you know what, I just started another run through on DA:O. ME isn't giving me the fix I really need. I can't bring myself to play ME1 or 2 because there is nothing waiting for my shepard. There is just to little Jack in ME3 and the endings were...meh. So I think I'll be playing DA:O for a while.

[revo76]

101 hours on Origins plus Awakening DLC. What a game.. It was pure epic. I would love to play it again but i dont have the time for it. So much mods to install etc.

More than this, please do not compare ME3 with DA:O. This is like comparing Tuk tuk with a Ferrari.

I wont call ending's' of Origins as 'art'. The game's itself was an art. Like many said above, according to your choices, there was a happy ending, there was a sad ending, there was a sacrice ending. You dont have some starkid or some other Hollywood rip-off second quality story elements.

So... Dragon Age and Mass Effect 3 are pieces or games of different universes.

One is true RPG, the other was RPG but sacrificed to COD players by it's evil masters.

PS: As others, i didnt touch ME3 after finishing it, EC didnt change that. I'm sorry for my 70Euro, but that's all. At least that 70Euro showed me that BW and EA are done as quality game producer/publisher and i should never buy something from these two. 

Modifié par revo76, 08 août 2012 - 01:00 .

[Pitznik]

Feanor_II wrote...

Maias227 wrote...

How on earth did you get a 100 hours out of Dragon Age Origins? It took me 35 or something for the main game with the dlc that happened within that storyline.

Well.... I was closer to 100 than to 35..... (but i explored to last corner and made even the silliest sidequests)

35 h.... is more or less what it takes me completing ME1 and DA:O is much longer

I think I modded the game for 30 - 40 minutes just to check bugged Jowan sidequest after you let him go from Redcliffe Castle. After playing it out, I realized how retarded was what I did.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

And Jacob can't be wrong?  Shepards that romance Liara get a "marriage, old age, and lots of blue children" line.in LOTSB.  Shep and Ash (if romanced) boost each others' morale with "let's get it done and go home"   Then there's Garrus' lilne about retiring someplace warm...

And I thought the dreams were just the war weighing on SHepard's mind?

Jacob can be wrong. So why can't Shepard? It happens all throughout the series: his understanding of the Protheans, thinking Sovereign is a ship, etc.

Expressing a desire to survive isn't foreshadowing of any kind. If that were the case, no one would die in fiction, ever. Shepard talking about his desire to continue his life with his loved ones only makes it that much sweeter when he survives or that much more painful when he dies, which is as it should be. But there's nothing about the blue children line which should have said to anyone playing this series that "Oh, Shepard definitely has to live now" because Bioware foreshadowed it.

Perfect example (New Batman Spoilers incoming) : 



At the end of the Dark Knight Rises, Catwoman makes a comment to Batman about how he's given his entire life to defend Gotham, to which he responds "Not everything, not yet", the clear implication being that he's prepared to sacrifice himself for his city. But we all saw how that scenario turns out.  

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 08 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[o Ventus]

I admit, DAO's endings in comparison to ME3's endings... It's almost like they were developed by separate companies (I know the dev teams are different, just stating my case).

[matt-bassist]

While I do agree that DAO was awesome and the endings did reflect the whole game and were consistent... you must realize that it's still *one* game. I think the ending of ME1 was awesome too, and I think it reflected the whole game and was consistent too.

If you *Really* wanted to look at it objectively, you should look at DAO + DA2 vs. ME 1 + ME 2. DA2 sucked anal and they completely f-ed with the lore and everything.

Looking at it THAT way, I think it's amazing that BioWare managed to keep the 3 ME games as consistent as they were through 3(!) games and 8 years!

Endings wise though, well, DAO's ending was actually *good*. ME3 just sucked in general.

[comrade gando]

well from now on whenever I hear a game developer is trying to be an artist, or is making art, or is doing anything regarding art... NO..... NNNNO.. NO. BAD developer, let me tell you this story about a game called mass effect.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Best thing about origins is it doesn't introduce a new character or plot element at the end that breaks established lore.