71 réponses à ce sujet

[thisisme8]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

I think I remember... It was just something stupid, like how the Avalanche did no damage to actual health, so the GL was better (they handled the same way).  It wasn't until one of the 7eet players posted up how good it was vs defenses that it became popular.  Even now, I think the Arc Projector or Cain are still more popular, and hardly any of the NGs on the ME2 board seem to know what the Avalanche is.

That may have been my video.  The very first time I got that gun I was like, WHOAH!

[JaegerBane]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

All this talk of the ME2 Heavy Weapons is nostalgic. Cain hijinks were the best though, 2nd only to Stasis FoD and/or Pull/Throw instakill.

I honestly don't know why they took them out. It just reminds me of the whole Mako thing back in ME2.

[TevinterMagister]

JaegerBane wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

All this talk of the ME2 Heavy Weapons is nostalgic. Cain hijinks were the best though, 2nd only to Stasis FoD and/or Pull/Throw instakill.

I honestly don't know why they took them out. It just reminds me of the whole Mako thing back in ME2.

There's no real place for heavy weapons in ME3 when you have access to biotic/cryo/fire explosions and tech bursts.

[JaegerBane]

Maze of Torment wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

All this talk of the ME2 Heavy Weapons is nostalgic. Cain hijinks were the best though, 2nd only to Stasis FoD and/or Pull/Throw instakill.

I honestly don't know why they took them out. It just reminds me of the whole Mako thing back in ME2.

There's no real place for heavy weapons in ME3 when you have access to biotic/cryo/fire explosions and tech bursts.

Heavy Weapons were more about fun than anything that was specifically required. I just prefer I still had them rather than not - I don't really understand why they were removed. Any of the whiners could have just not used them if they disliked them so much.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

thisisme8 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

I think I remember... It was just something stupid, like how the Avalanche did no damage to actual health, so the GL was better (they handled the same way). It wasn't until one of the 7eet players posted up how good it was vs defenses that it became popular. Even now, I think the Arc Projector or Cain are still more popular, and hardly any of the NGs on the ME2 board seem to know what the Avalanche is.

That may have been my video. The very first time I got that gun I was like, WHOAH!

Yeah, it had to be either you or Boz.

Also, your manuever & fire tutorials were classic.

JaegerBane wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

All this talk of the ME2 Heavy Weapons is nostalgic. Cain hijinks were the best though, 2nd only to Stasis FoD and/or Pull/Throw instakill.

I honestly don't know why they took them out. It just reminds me of the whole Mako thing back in ME2.

There's no real place for heavy weapons in ME3 when you have access to biotic/cryo/fire explosions and tech bursts.

Heavy Weapons were more about fun than anything that was specifically required. I just prefer I still had them rather than not - I don't really understand why they were removed. Any of the whiners could have just not used them if they disliked them so much.

True, they were never needed per se, but they made certain fights a lot more convenient for classes/builds that lacked certain power sets. But given the weight system, they could've been kept, though they would've made certain set-piece sequences kinda weird (but they are already weird as they are).

I'm just gonna take the easy route and blame the whiners. If the ME2 defense mechanic was still around and power combos weren't as mindless to do, we'd still be running around with mini-nukes strapped to our backs.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Heavy weapon removal was just another weapon class nerf. There were a whole bunch actually. The stupid weight system, shield gate, removing damage multipliers for rapid fire guns, nerfing a lot of guns outright. ME3 wants you to be a caster.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 18 août 2012 - 07:44 .

[JaegerBane]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Heavy weapon removal was just another weapon class nerf.

Given that they were available to all classes, this doesn't make sense.

I thought you were saying a while back that giving ARs to other classes was a nerf to soldiers? Now because other classes have *lost* a weapon type, its also a nerf to soldiers?

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2012 - 08:57 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

You just responded to this like two posts ago....

Maze of Torment wrote...

There's no real place for heavy weapons in ME3 when you have access to biotic/cryo/fire explosions and tech bursts.

Now tell me who loses more here casters or weapon classes? Heavy weapons were the nukem option. Now only casters have something sorta like that with their biotic and tech combos. Weapon classes don't even get a focus fire or critical hit combo that scales with difficulty. They were the biggest losers. You have to play them like casters (bonus power) to keep up.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 18 août 2012 - 09:58 .

[TevinterMagister]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

There's no real place for heavy weapons in ME3 when you have access to biotic/cryo/fire explosions and tech bursts.

Now tell me who loses more here casters or weapon classes? Heavy weapons were the nukem option. Now only casters have something sorta like that with their biotic and tech combos. Weapon classes don't even get a focus fire or critical hit combo that scales with difficulty. They were the biggest losers. You have to play them like casters (bonus power) to keep up.

Soldiers can tech burst every time concussive is off cooldown, they can potentially get fire/cryo explosions if concussive kills on impact though that would be rare. 1 guaranteed, 2 maybe's out of 4 isn't bad, add slam and you can detonate unprotected enemies, or prime everything with reave. A Sentinel can pick Inferno grenade and he can prime and detonate every combo in the game by himself, compared to that soldier come up short I agree.

OP laments the loss of ME2 TA and I disagree, I preferred the ME1 sentinel as a versatile caster over the one-trick pony it became in ME2 (though it is still is a capable caster). ME3 is closer to the ME1 style sentinel where it's about using my entire arsenal of powers over creating a throw bot or TA spammer. It's a win, not a loss IMO.

[JaegerBane]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

You just responded to this like two posts ago....

Maze of Torment wrote...

There's no real place for heavy weapons in ME3 when you have access to biotic/cryo/fire explosions and tech bursts.

Now tell me who loses more here casters or weapon classes? Heavy weapons were the nukem option. Now only casters have something sorta like that with their biotic and tech combos. Weapon classes don't even get a focus fire or critical hit combo that scales with difficulty. They were the biggest losers. You have to play them like casters (bonus power) to keep up.

I'm assuming this is directed at me...

You're oversimplifying it. Soldiers never needed nukes in ME2. Quite apart from the fact that Adepts were the only class that could carry off their own biotic explosions, and have also lost heavy weapons, by your logic they've been nerfed to an even greater degree than soldiers. They're no longer the only detonators and don;t have any HW.

Which of course, is nonsense, as they can steamroll insanity regardless.

HWs were a way of filling in the gaps of a class's abilities, and were a bit of fun - now, no class has 'gaps' due to the way combo detonations work, but *every* class still missed out on the cool effects offered by them, and that's a shame - but its hardly something that disproportinately affected soldiers. The lack of detonations for Soldiers is a definite minus to them, and in that respect I agree they took a hit, but that has nowt to do with HWs.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2012 - 12:37 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

The problem with your example is that adepts don't rely on weapons to get by. If the powers took major nerfs then yes they'd be at a disadvantage but their powers only got a gazillion times stronger from ME2 to ME3. Since some of the best weapons are pistols it's not even like they lose out in the gun department either. Where as soldier powers were nerfed (you feel this was appropriate others disagree) and the weapons themselves (ARs in particular) are pretty lackluster without DLC.

Point is ME3 disregarded gunplay for powers and it shows in a lot of ways. The HW removal shouldn't be viewed in isolation

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 18 août 2012 - 07:24 .

[RedCaesar97]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
 Where as soldier powers were nerfed (you feel this was appropriate others disagree) and the weapons themselves (ARs in particular) are pretty lackluster without DLC. 

I will disagree with this statement:
- Concussive Shot has been vastly improved.
- Disruptor Ammo has been vastly improved.
- Incendiary Ammo and Cryo Ammo is about the same.

Only Adrenaline Rush can be considered nerfed, and even then I do not consider it nerfed but rather only changed slightly. The (ridiculous and nonsensical) damage bonus it provided in ME2 has been scaled back, but that is it. It has actually gained the ability to automatically reload your weapon, and you can actually reload your weapon under Adrenaline Rush once your clip reaches 0. Compare this to ME2 where once your clip reached 0, you could complete the reload animation but the clip remained at 0; this meant you could only fire the Widow and Claymore once while under Adrenaline Rush.

I will agree that some of the weapons themselves can be pretty lackluster, but there are still some great weapons in there even without DLC.

The Assault Rifles were never really that great in the entire series. In ME1, a Pistol with Marksman was generally better than an Assault Rifle, particularly since Assault Rifles could not hit the broad side of the moon until level IV. In ME2, only the Vindicator was good. The Revenant was okay, but I found that other weapons were simply better (SMGs better versus shields, Viper and pistols better versus armor). It was not until the Mattock that you got another good Assault Rifle.

The weapons in Mass Effect 3 took a hit when they changed how the protection mechanics work, particularly the SMGs. The Assault rifles are much better than the SMGs in ME3, at least in my opinion.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 18 août 2012 - 08:24 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

The soldier's primary power should be unique and immensely powerful. He doesn't have cool abilities like cloak or nova. Otherwise he's just relying on his boring guns and ammo powers aren't exactly exclusive to soldiers. Frankly automatic reload isn't all that great either. You're exposing yourself for too long where as with ME2 adrenaline rush you could pop out of cover and take out whoever you needed fast. I gotta disagree with you on ARs as well. Assault rifle training was probably the most popular bonus prior to ME3. Even in ME1 the pistols were good under marksman but outside of it left something to be desired.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 18 août 2012 - 08:42 .

[RedCaesar97]

Binary_Helix 1: Try running around with the Claymore. That automatic reload is a godsend.

I will agree that Assault Rifles were the most popular bonus weapon, but I will argue that shotguns are more fun. And when I took assault rifle training, it was only to acquire a decent backup weapon to the Carnifex should I ever run out of ammo.

[Binary_Helix 1]

I was actually just watching some claymore soldier videos from ME2 and apparently one of them was yours. I never ran with the claymore in ME2 but it's reload speed is fantastic. Much better than ME3 claymore, imo. Sure adrenalin rush gives you an instant reload but in ME2 something like that wasn't even necessary. I know I'm a broken record but ME2 had better gunplay.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 18 août 2012 - 09:23 .

[RedCaesar97]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
 I know I'm a broken record but ME2 had better gunplay. 

On that we can agree

[DeathScepter]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
 I know I'm a broken record but ME2 had better gunplay. 

On that we can agree

That is true.

ME2 has a  lot I do love about it.

[Jonata]

 

[capn233]

Incendiary Ammo is better in ME3

It does a whole lot more damage. In ME2 the damage bonus wasn't all that high, relatively speaking, after the weapons were leveled up. But in this game Explosive Burst gives you a lot more damage, especially with the rapid fire weapons.

[TheSovietPenguin]

 Yeah, Sentinel is a little more Adept-ish in ME3, compared to ME2.

Personally, I found sentinel with Javik / Liara to be mind-numbingly easy, even more so than the novaguard. Don't get me wrong, its a great class, but it was just a little too dull and repetetive (ala novaguard) since all you had to do was spam player and squad biotics until everything was dead. Personally, I perfer soldier and a no-nova vanguard over sentinel/adept/novaguard since it's much more challenging, but not impossible.

Tech armor is'nt bad, but it was a little dumbed down in ME3 (again, more adept-ish.) which didnt seem all that necessary, since it wasnt all powerful in ME2.

That being said, ME3 insanity is a joke, so I would love bioware to release a higher difficulty DLC or something like that. (I can dream, can't I?)

[capn233]

TheSovietPenguin wrote...

Don't get me wrong, its a great class, but it was just a little too dull and repetetive (ala novaguard) since all you had to do was spam player and squad biotics until everything was dead. Personally, I perfer soldier and a no-nova vanguard over sentinel/adept/novaguard since it's much more challenging, but not impossible.

Yeah, Sentinel played like that almost caused me to skip Adept entirely.  Which was why I invented arbitrary rules for my Adept run (no Throw, no Pull, Shockwave and Shotgun heavy).

[Locutus_of_BORG]

capn233 wrote...

Incendiary Ammo is better in ME3

It does a whole lot more damage. In ME2 the damage bonus wasn't all that high, relatively speaking, after the weapons were leveled up. But in this game Explosive Burst gives you a lot more damage, especially with the rapid fire weapons.

I think Explosive Burst gives something like 100 bonus damage per hit? Basically, the faster a gun's RoF, the better the DPS boost from Explosive Burst.

eg: 1 clip from a GPR = dead charging Brute... which is incredible compared to what a GPR can normally do.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 20 août 2012 - 04:19 .