217 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

Kaidan in ME1 already had over a dozen service commendations before the game even started, he's either the very best biotic the Alliance has ever had or the second best biotic if Shepard was a biotic class, he already had a fairly high rank of staff lieutenant, and he led his own unit by ME3 and it was the first ever Alliance biotic spec ops teams. And this is all stuff he did without Shepard. Throw the Shepard stuff in, and his service record goes from already amazing to even more amazing.

He is also highly skilled, more then Saren, Vasir, and Nihlus apparently were. I mean, Saren just flew around on an anti-gravity skateboard firing his gun with no regards to cover. Vasir had a biotic charge that sucked so much that it didn't even restore her shields like Shepard's, takes a good 5 seconds to build up before she actually charges, and it can't even send you flying even if she hits you while you're unshielded... Oh, and she was such a weakling that she ran from Liara instead of fighting, and only fought when cornered. And Nihlus couldn't beat Samara even after days of playing cat and mouse with her. Clearly, specters don't need to be that amazing in a fight to be worthy, and Kaidan at least matches those guys.

Now compare to Ashley. She is a blacklisted soldier, posted to a backwater agriculture colony, is only a gunnery chief, who would have been killed without help (contrast to Shepard, who survives a thresher maw pack by himself/herself, holding off an entire army in the blitz by himself/herself, and taking a Batarian base so heavily fortified that no one thinks it's possible and is alone by the end of it), and does... Something between ME1-2 and ME2-3? I don't know what. She just did... Alliance stuff. No details, she just does stuff, nothing important or awesome enough to be even worth noting. Literally her only accomplishments were when she was with Shepard. Kaidan, as I said, earned a ton completely unrelated to Shepard, but Ashley did pretty much nothing that was unrelated. Every accomplishment she has, is more to Shepard then to her.

on that note, I had to note that it's ridiculous that Ashley jumped about 6 ranks in 2.5 years... Kaidan's was more logical, he jumped only 3, which makes actual sense. She jumped 6, with accomplishments of so little merit that we're not even told what they are. They bumped her rank just because, but she didn't earn it like Kaidan did. And again, the rate she rose at is just not even something I can take seriously.


In short, Ashley being made specter is a mistake that doesn't make sense for her to even be a candidate, but Kaidan being made specter makes sense and is something I would say he has definitely earned.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 02:32 .

[mjboldy]

Ashley never became a Spectre on my playthroughs if you know what I mean, hehe.... It means she's dead.

[silentassassin264]

Your argument was immediately invalidated by saying Vasir sucked. Vasir was injured and bleeding profusely from a high speed car accident and still managed to be the most badass enemy in the entire series.

[BatmanPWNS]

Like being a spectre even matters anymore.
What does it do for Ash/Kaidan in ME3? NOTHING.
What does it do for Shepard except giving him access to one room and 3 very expensive guns? NOTHING

Modifié par BatmanPWNS, 08 août 2012 - 02:33 .

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Just going to say that Military Rank isnt a qualification to be a Spectre. They only care if you can get the damn job done.

Kaidan obviously could and in fabulous fashion with the mind flaying and all, and so could Ash in a more violent and bloody display of weapon mastery.

[andy6915]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Your argument was immediately invalidated by saying Vasir sucked. Vasir was injured and bleeding profusely from a high speed car accident and still managed to be the most badass enemy in the entire series.

I will admit, out of all the specters I noted, she was by far the most skilled. She lasted several times longer then Saren and his hover-board ever did.

[David7204]

Wasn't the VS being made a Spectre in the first place a ploy by Udina to try and gain their loyalty?

[BP93]

Thanks for your opinion.

[Genetic Destiny]

Doesn't Udina's involvement invalidate whether Ashley's worthy? He probably wanted someone who's close to Shepard in his hands.

[andy6915]

David7204 wrote...

Wasn't the VS being made a Spectre in the first place a ploy by Udina to try and gain their loyalty?

Probably. But with Ashley, it's clear that she was given the honor without merit, clearly a ploy. With Kaidan, he has enough merit that I would say he deserved it, ploy or no. That's the difference, her rise through the ranks are all just political and fake, just there to make humans look good. Kaidan actually gets those ranks on real terms.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 02:38 .

[MerchantGOL]

ummm Ashley's tour of duties made her qualified far beyond her rank in me1

[I Tsunayoshi I]

andy69156915 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Wasn't the VS being made a Spectre in the first place a ploy by Udina to try and gain their loyalty?

Probably. But with Ashley, it's clear that she was given the honor without merit, clearly a ploy. With Kaidan, he has enough merit that I would say he deserved it, ploy or no. That's the difference, her rise through the ranks are all just political and fake, just there to make humans look good. Kaidan actually gets those ranks on real terms.

You are again assuming that her military record would be a major consideration when all that really matters is if the canidate can get the job done. Ashley has proven she can do that and even shows that she doesnt need Shep to get **** done. Or am I the only one that remembers that it wasnt Shepard that came up with the idea of luring over a tram on Mars.

[Alienboy411676]

I hated Kaidan. The minute Dr. Chakwas said at the beginning of ME1 that L2's could suffer from insanity, I wanted him off my ship. Not to mention when you're playing with a femshep, he just comes off as creepy and desperate. As far as Ash goes, I found her slightly more interesting, but I personally don't believe either one of them deserved to be a Specter. If anyone deserved it, it was Wrex. He was the only friggin squadmate in ME1 that was worth anything and could actually survive longer than 5 seconds. I agree that their sudden accelerated ranking was kind of ridiculous, but I think it would be interesting if BioWare were to have some explanation for this in a future DLC where you discover more about what your squads were doing between ME2 and 3.

[andy6915]

MerchantGOL wrote...

ummm Ashley's tour of duties made her qualified far beyond her rank in me1

Did it? Really? Her tour of duties is just a bunch of crap assignments, and being allowed to come with Shepard on the same journey a C-Sec agent, a bounty hunter, an archeologist, and an under-aged Quarian was allowed to go on... Clearly, what you did before the game was not important to being allowed on the pursue Saren mission.

[MerchantGOL]

andy69156915 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

ummm Ashley's tour of duties made her qualified far beyond her rank in me1

Did it? Really? Her tour of duties is just a bunch of crap assignments, 

She had served every where and done her job well,  sshe was never rewarded for it

[andy6915]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Are you aware what the Williams family reputation was pre-saving the world with Shepard? She had to fight through a lot of bull**** just to become a LIUETENANT COMMANDER.

No, she didn't do a lot of "bull****". Her only accomplishment was being on the Normandy during Shepard's specter mission in ME1, which again, an underaged Quarian did the same thing. Hell, you can leave her on the ship the whole game, never leaving the ship any more then the soldiers at the computers do, and still she gets promoted. Are those computer guys on the Normandy worthy? No. It was a politcal move, nothing more. She doesn't have one accomplishment that is actually hers. Kaidan howver, has many accomplishments that are his alone.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 02:50 .

[silentassassin264]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Wasn't the VS being made a Spectre in the first place a ploy by Udina to try and gain their loyalty?

Probably. But with Ashley, it's clear that she was given the honor without merit, clearly a ploy. With Kaidan, he has enough merit that I would say he deserved it, ploy or no. That's the difference, her rise through the ranks are all just political and fake, just there to make humans look good. Kaidan actually gets those ranks on real terms.

Are you aware what the Williams family reputation was pre-saving the world with Shepard? She had to fight through a lot of bull**** just to become a LIUETENANT COMMANDER.

Shepard saved the galaxy twice and never got promoted.  Heck, if you saved Kaiden, he ends up higher ranked than you. 

[I Tsunayoshi I]

andy69156915 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

ummm Ashley's tour of duties made her qualified far beyond her rank in me1

Did it? Really? Her tour of duties is just a bunch of crap assignments, and being allowed to come with Shepard on the same journey a C-Sec agent, a bounty hunter, an archeologist, and an under-aged Quarian was allowed to go on... Clearly, what you did before the game was not important to being allowed on the pursue Saren mission.

You do realize that Ashley's crap asssignments were handed out because of her relation to a particular General that surrendered to enemy forces when he couldnt win the fight instead of damning everyone under his command to death while falling on his own sword in some misguided belief of saving face? The fact that she made Gunnery Sergeant was on the merits of her career even after helping Shepard bring down Saren and Sovereign. We dont even know what Ashley was up to after the events on Horizon in ME2 or during the six month gap between Arrival and the start of ME3. While any further jump in rank may seem ridiculous, if she had proven that she was capable of handling the assignments she was given, and in many cases she had done just that, it would make sense that she could be considered for becoming a Spectre.

The notion that her rank has anything to do with that consideration is asinine and should be dropped on the spot.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

silentassassin264 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Wasn't the VS being made a Spectre in the first place a ploy by Udina to try and gain their loyalty?

Probably. But with Ashley, it's clear that she was given the honor without merit, clearly a ploy. With Kaidan, he has enough merit that I would say he deserved it, ploy or no. That's the difference, her rise through the ranks are all just political and fake, just there to make humans look good. Kaidan actually gets those ranks on real terms.

Are you aware what the Williams family reputation was pre-saving the world with Shepard? She had to fight through a lot of bull**** just to become a LIUETENANT COMMANDER.

Shepard saved the galaxy twice and never got promoted.  Heck, if you saved Kaiden, he ends up higher ranked than you. 

Dunno if its just me, but I seem to remember him being relisted as Commander in the ME2 codex entry, possibly a promotion given in lieu of his death in service to the Alliance.

[andy6915]

Sora Kitano wrote...

You do realize that Ashley's crap asssignments were handed out because of her relation to a particular General that surrendered to enemy forces when he couldnt win the fight instead of damning everyone under his command to death while falling on his own sword in some misguided belief of saving face? The fact that she made Gunnery Sergeant was on the merits of her career even after helping Shepard bring down Saren and Sovereign. We dont even know what Ashley was up to after the events on Horizon in ME2 or during the six month gap between Arrival and the start of ME3. While any further jump in rank may seem ridiculous, if she had proven that she was capable of handling the assignments she was given, and in many cases she had done just that, it would make sense that she could be considered for becoming a Spectre.

I do realize that. And? It's still a bunch of crap assignments without merit, regardless of why. Specter recommendations aren't out of charity, you have to earn them. Fact is, she hasn't and didn't.

Sora Kitano wrote..

The notion that her rank has anything to do with that consideration is asinine and should be dropped on the spot.

You're making a big deal out of it then I have. It was just another little piece of evidence, not some massive thing my whole point revolves around.

[Scottus4]

Shepard saved the galaxy twice and never got promoted.

Shepard was also working with known terrorists and also nearly caused a war between the Alliance and the Hegemony. Promoting him would make it seem as though the Alliance condoned his current conduct.

As for Ashley getting promoted, I don't think power is taken into consideration. Leadership is the main criterion for advancement, and apparently Ashley has some leadership skills. Also, Ashley's lower rank was because she had been held back - I think it is implied she's kicked a lot of ass without getting the promotions she's deserved. Her accelerated track I think is meant to reflect recognition of her prior accomplishments.

I don't think either Virmire survivor is really Spectre material though. I don't know much about the military, so maybe leaders really don't develop any sort of ties to their units, but having the Virmire survivor jump on board without saying ANYTHING to anyone else, completely abandoning their old units, makes me question what kind of leadership they had.

Modifié par Scottus4, 08 août 2012 - 03:02 .

[andy6915]

Scottus4 wrote...

As for Ashley getting promoted, I don't think power is taken into consideration. Leadership is the criterion for advancement, and apparently Ashley has some leadership skills. Also, Ashley's lower rank was because she had been held back - I think it is implied she's kicked a lot of ass without getting the promotions she's deserved. Her accelerated track I think is meant to reflect recognition of her prior accomplishments.

Leadership, huh? Like Ashley getting her entire unit killed without any real progress even being made? Even Torfan Shepard, who got his/her entire unit killed, at least made use of their deaths and sacrifices by taking the bunker they were tasked to take. Grim, but their deaths made the mission a success. What did Ashley's unit dying accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Shepard's unit died for something, Ashley's died for nothing whatsoever. Great leadership.

Kaidan's biotic team were apparently kicking ass though. Great leadership, and I don't mean it sarcastically that time.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 03:05 .

[silentassassin264]

Sora Kitano wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Wasn't the VS being made a Spectre in the first place a ploy by Udina to try and gain their loyalty?

Probably. But with Ashley, it's clear that she was given the honor without merit, clearly a ploy. With Kaidan, he has enough merit that I would say he deserved it, ploy or no. That's the difference, her rise through the ranks are all just political and fake, just there to make humans look good. Kaidan actually gets those ranks on real terms.

Are you aware what the Williams family reputation was pre-saving the world with Shepard? She had to fight through a lot of bull**** just to become a LIUETENANT COMMANDER.

Shepard saved the galaxy twice and never got promoted.  Heck, if you saved Kaiden, he ends up higher ranked than you. 

Dunno if its just me, but I seem to remember him being relisted as Commander in the ME2 codex entry, possibly a promotion given in lieu of his death in service to the Alliance.

And Kaiden is still Major.  Regardless, you save the galaxy twice and go from Lt. Commander to Commander and Ash goes from Gunnery Chief to Lt Commander and Kaiden goes from Staff Lt to Major.  Every jumps leaps and bounds except the person who did the most work.  Way to go Alliance.  I wish I could have stayed with Cerberus.