217 réponses à ce sujet

[Goneaviking]

It made the OPs argument look weak that the other spectres were brought into the debate given their irrelevance in a Kaidan vs Ashley discussion. Even if had they been relevant it would be improper to compare them based on how they do in a fight with Shepard given that Shepard never has a real fight against either VS.

Should be mentioned as well that her commitment to military service for the Alliance despite knowing full well that she would never advance is a mark in her favour, demonstrating as it does aspects of her character that would be important to anyone inducted into the Spectre group. Her conduct post Eden Prime should be enough to justify her admittance, particularly given that Shepard was singled out because of a single event that was rather less impressive than Ashley's performance in the hunt for Saren.

In any case, I think either character (or Garrus) would make a worthy candidate for Spectre status given their accomplishments during the game.

[nos_astra]

EnvyTB075 wrote...
Kaiden is definitely far more professional than Ashley, that said why either of them suddenly get the invite is a bit....odd, especially since that canonically speaking the spectres are the ones who are meant to put forward names, not the council.

In ME1 Shepard's name is put forward by Udina, too. After he, Anderson and Hackett agreed on Shepard as a candidate.

[nos_astra]

Goneaviking wrote...
In any case, I think either character (or Garrus) would make a worthy candidate for Spectre status given their accomplishments during the game.

Garrus' accomplishments? Do tell.

[Andy the Black]

HagarIshay wrote...

If spectres would have been chosen based on their past service, then I would agree, Ashley being made a spectre is a huge joke. But they aren't. Garrus was also asked to be a spectre, and he was only a just some random C-sec officer. As long as you're good with your guns, smart enough, can get the job done, know how to make hard decisions, and of course be loyal to the council, and you're a good spectre.

Ashley is almost all of those things. She is certaintly a good soldier, she is smart, she can make hard decisions, she is pretty much loyal to the council. We don't really know if she can get the job done since we don't really know enough about her past service to be sure either way. But I'll go with "yes", since she has enough skills to be able to do that.

Except they are.

Shep got the job because of what s/he did on Elysium/Akuze/Torfan.

Past service is what proves that someone has the attributes you mentation. You need to have an exceptional service record to even be considered. Even then you normally need to prove youself still further.

And Ash's loyalty to the Council is... questionable. She's definitely loyal to the Alliance and Udina no question. But might fail when it comes to putting the greater galactic good before the Alliance.

[Goneaviking]

klarabella wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...
In any case, I think either character (or Garrus) would make a worthy candidate for Spectre status given their accomplishments during the game.

Garrus' accomplishments? Do tell.

Helping take down Saren. He was investigating Saren even before meeting Shepard which put him well ahead of the curve at C-Sec.
Cleaning house on Omega. Yeah it didn't end well but what do expect for anything happening somewhere called Omega? Might have kept going strong for a lot longer if not for betrayal in the ranks, by y'know Omega.
Taking out the Collector Base. Making a habit of surviving suicide missions should probably get you noticed by those whose job it is to notice that kind of accomplishment.
Being shot in the face with a missile and not dying. If Shepard can get recommended for not being killed by a Thresher Maw how high can the bar really be?

Modifié par Goneaviking, 08 août 2012 - 08:45 .

[Ageless Face]

EnvyTB075 wrote...
What? Udina is part of the coup, so he WOULD know about it if it were going to happen...

Oh really? Udina knew Shepard would come and aim his/her gun at him? I mean, that's the only reason I see why he will bring specifically Shepard's former crewmate is for Shepard to hesitate to kill Udina (not a very good plan, since Kaidan/Ashley can turn on Udina themselves...).

Seriously, if Udina wanted someone for his coup, he shouldv'e made Kai Leng a spectre. That would at least make Kai Leng a bit more of a serious antagonist.

[Ageless Face]

Andy the Black wrote...
Except they are.

Shep got the job because of what s/he did on Elysium/Akuze/Torfan.

Past service is what proves that someone has the attributes you mentation. You need to have an exceptional service record to even be considered. Even then you normally need to prove youself still further.

And Ash's loyalty to the Council is... questionable. She's definitely loyal to the Alliance and Udina no question. But might fail when it comes to putting the greater galactic good before the Alliance.

It's not only because Shepard's past service. What Shepard did in his/her past was the thing that made the council take notice him/her. I mean, if it was only for that, you'd think the council would have made Shepard a spectre long before the events of ME1.

Kaidan and Ashley's service with Shepard is what made the council take notice of them. Afterwards, their skills was what the council took into account. Like I said, if past service had a huge meaning, Garrus wouldn't have been considered as a spectre.

Ashley's loyalty to the council is equal or greater than renengade Shepard. The council only needs to know they won't get shot in the back by their own spectres. Talk about embarrassing...

[EnvyTB075]

klarabella wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...
Kaiden is definitely far more professional than Ashley, that said why either of them suddenly get the invite is a bit....odd, especially since that canonically speaking the spectres are the ones who are meant to put forward names, not the council.

In ME1 Shepard's name is put forward by Udina, too. After he, Anderson and Hackett agreed on Shepard as a candidate.

Nihlus

[Helios969]

Neither were worthy of becoming a Spectre. If I could have left them both on Virmire to die, I would have. If any companion should have been awarded Spectre status it should have been Garrus.

[Mordak55]

Out of all my ME1 play thoughts Kaiden has survived twice, just to change the ME3 play. I have saved Ash on every other play though. Both could be Spectres without doubt. I don't dislike Kaiden at all, I just prefer Ash's story.

[iSousek]

Garrus did nothing good in reacent times that was official, so he flops out.

As for Kaiden and Ashley, reasons for their Spectre induction is mostly what they did in those three years before ME 3, plus they both have reaper fighting expirience. Unfortunately, BW dropped the ball when itcomes to VS content so we don't really know what they did but apparently it was big considering they also jumped three ranks.

[Mordak55]

Helios969 wrote...

Neither were worthy of becoming a Spectre. If I could have left them both on Virmire to die, I would have. If any companion should have been awarded Spectre status it should have been Garrus.

Garrus was a badass, and my favourate character. but not really relevent to the OP's question. 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Also, Ashley is very pro-human, she wouldn't be looking for the advantages as a galaxy as a whole, but only for humans.

[Helios969]

Mordak55 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Neither were worthy of becoming a Spectre. If I could have left them both on Virmire to die, I would have. If any companion should have been awarded Spectre status it should have been Garrus.

Garrus was a badass, and my favourate character. but not really relevent to the OP's question. 

lol, since when did thread relevance ever matter on these forums?  Should I start an entire new thread on which companion is truly worthy of gaining Spectre status?  Seriously though, I never really understood the whole Kaiden or Ashley argument as great companions.  I found them both largely flat, static characters.  Kaiden comes off as a whiny little b*tch...and Ash is, well...just a b*tch.  Of course, the interaction on Horizon doesn't elevate my opinion of either.  Or that both are so easily duped by Udina.

[AlexMBrennan]

Yeah, you're right, making Ash a spectre is stupid - a corpse/pile of ash is a much better choice...

[nos_astra]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

klarabella wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...
Kaiden is definitely far more professional than Ashley, that said why either of them suddenly get the invite is a bit....odd, especially since that canonically speaking the spectres are the ones who are meant to put forward names, not the council.

In ME1 Shepard's name is put forward by Udina, too. After he, Anderson and Hackett agreed on Shepard as a candidate.

Nihlus

Nihlus was something like an observer. Spectre candidates are evaluated and accompanied by a Spectre for a time.

I don't think Nihlus necessarily chose Shepard, unless I'm missing essential information.

[Mordak55]

Helios969 wrote...

Mordak55 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Neither were worthy of becoming a Spectre. If I could have left them both on Virmire to die, I would have. If any companion should have been awarded Spectre status it should have been Garrus.

Garrus was a badass, and my favourate character. but not really relevent to the OP's question. 

lol, since when did thread relevance ever matter on these forums?  Should I start an entire new thread on which companion is truly worthy of gaining Spectre status?  Seriously though, I never really understood the whole Kaiden or Ashley argument as great companions.  I found them both largely flat, static characters.  Kaiden comes off as a whiny little b*tch...and Ash is, well...just a b*tch.  Of course, the interaction on Horizon doesn't elevate my opinion of either.  Or that both are so easily duped by Udina.

Ok relevance argument I accept 

However I dont count Horizon as that is obviously just a Dev plot device. 

[Mordak55]

Garrus, Tali, Miranda, Grunt,Wrex Mordin Good Characters
Samara, Ash, Kaiden, Legion, Kasumi OK Characters
The rest are Meh.


Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[nos_astra]

Goneaviking wrote...
Helping take down Saren. He was investigating Saren even before meeting Shepard which put him well ahead of the curve at C-Sec.

Garrus was told to investigate, failed to provide convincing evidence and had one lead. He then quit C-Sec, hopped onto the train to awesome and rode Shepard's coatails.

Goneaviking wrote...
Cleaning house on Omega. Yeah it didn't end well but what do expect for anything happening somewhere called Omega? Might have kept going strong for a lot longer if not for betrayal in the ranks, by y'know Omega.

You could also argue that he lost sight of what's important and was wasting his time by playing hero.

How did he even build this team? How did he equip them? How did he pay them? Did they just follow him because he promised them to do good and become heroes? And why didn't he prepare for betrayal on f***ng Omega?

Goneaviking wrote...
Taking out the Collector Base. Making a habit of surviving suicide missions should probably get you noticed by those whose job it is to notice that kind of accomplishment.

Well, obscure missions are by definition obscure. Not exactly helpful. And he's still riding Shepard's coatails.

Goneaviking wrote...
Being shot in the face with a missile and not dying. If Shepard can get recommended for not being killed by a Thresher Maw how high can the bar really be?

Had he avoided that missile I would have been more impressed. I believe that's what Shepard did on Akuze ... managed to avoid being hit for days.

Had he done all of this in service of the turian military or as a C-Sec officer that might impress someone. If it came on top of stuff he accomplished by himself, that is. Alas, that didn't happen. Too bad. Poor Garrus, doomed to be Shepard's eternal sidekick.

Modifié par klarabella, 08 août 2012 - 12:08 .

[DirtySHISN0]

I'm of the opinion that not having a save both or kill both option on virmire was a mistake.

More so the kill both option.

Plus they are both coasters.

[nos_astra]

Helios969 wrote...
lol, since when did thread relevance ever matter on these forums?  Should I start an entire new thread on which companion is truly worthy of gaining Spectre status?  Seriously though, I never really understood the whole Kaiden or Ashley argument as great companions.  I found them both largely flat, static characters.  Kaiden comes off as a whiny little b*tch...and Ash is, well...just a b*tch.  Of course, the interaction on Horizon doesn't elevate my opinion of either.  Or that both are so easily duped by Udina.

I find them no flatter or more static than any other squadmate. I think they are among the least caricatural characters, for what that's worth.

How exactly are they easily duped by Udina, btw.? There is little to no reason to suspect Udina is working with Cerberus. It's one of the things even players roll their eyes at because it comes out of the left field and makes no freaking sense.

[avenging_teabag]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Kaidan is a clown. Anyone else remember the line he says after you or Ashley kills Wrex?

End of line.

Plus, he wears a pompadour - that alone should disqualify him instantly.

[Ageless Face]

avenging_teabag wrote...
Plus, he wears a pompadour - that alone should disqualify him instantly.

People still call Elvis "The king".

Your argument is invalid.

[avenging_teabag]

I'm not against him being a king of something, but a spectre with that hair? Preposterous.

I bet he can sing karaoke really well though 

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 08 août 2012 - 12:26 .

[Ageless Face]

avenging_teabag wrote...

I'm not against him being a king of something, but a spectre with that hair? Preposterous.

I bet he can sing karaoke really well though 

Even spectres need to have a style.

I don't know about singing, but he's a great dancer.