217 réponses à ce sujet

[flanny]

neither is worthy, I though that was the point? Udina wanted someone to guard the council who wouldn't be smart enough to figure out what he was doing and someone who isn't strong enough to cause a problem. the VS make perfect sense.

Kaiden is an good soldier but not a great one, he doesn't have what it takes to get the job done and is unwilling to look long term when making decisions. He only advances because of his connection to Shepard.

Ashley is a hard fighting grunt, but a grunt all the same she does very little to make her stand out of the rank and file and if she had never met Shepard she'd still likely be NCO.

Neither compares to Shepard, Anderson or Saren

[Ageless Face]

flanny wrote...

neither is worthy, I though that was the point? Udina wanted someone to guard the council who wouldn't be smart enough to figure out what he was doing and someone who isn't strong enough to cause a problem. the VS make perfect sense.

Kaiden is an good soldier but not a great one, he doesn't have what it takes to get the job done and is unwilling to look long term when making decisions. He only advances because of his connection to Shepard.

Ashley is a hard fighting grunt, but a grunt all the same she does very little to make her stand out of the rank and file and if she had never met Shepard she'd still likely be NCO.

Neither compares to Shepard, Anderson or Saren

If neither is worthy, why would the other councilors accept them as spectres?

[avenging_teabag]

Haha, he outdances Ashley pretty comprehensively, gotta admit.



Still, Ash is a council spectre and she got there on merit. OP and other haters could stick that into their pipes and smoke it.

[survivor_686]

With all due respect to OP, you may have skipped over a few key details:
- Ashley is blacklisted, not due to her behavior, but due to the actions of her grandfather (surrendering the garrison after fighting off the Turians through intense guerrilla warfare)

- Despite family blacklisting, Ashley has managed to push herself through the ranks. That's got to be a testament to her skills

- Ashley has been noted to have an excellent service record (tutored other members of her platoon, received commendations in marksmanship and assault training)

- Toughest and deadliest NPC. Other than a soldier Shepard, Ashley is one of the toughest and deadly squadmates in ME1. Seriously, just assign her powers correctly, hand her a shotgun and send her ahead of you. Its a lifesaver sometimes. OR just givre her a Revenant in ME3.

- No powers. Well not everyone can be blessed with the powers to manipulate dark energy

- Promotion to rank and activities: Given that despite Shepard saving the citadel, he hasn't been promoted. Ashley had to have earned her promotions and in the time between games has increased in rank and importance. Looking at her ME3 armor, one can see wings, indicating that she has joined some sort of "paratrooper" unit. She hasn't been sitting around, as so many have accused

- "Anti-Alien" bias: First off, if one were to explore just a little bit further, Ashley is imply cynical of alien political leadership. She notes several uncomfortable facts and isn't afraid to state them. Several of her predictions to come through (Guess which world the Council seem ok to let burn?). Note her interactions with the rest of the Normandy crew and she is quite friendly and supportive. Ashley is a cynic...not a racist.

- Ashley earned her rank and her Spectre status due to the fact that she's a tough as nail, deadly and loyal Alliance soldier. She may not have Kaidan's biotics, Shepard's charm or Vasir's shotgun (my soldier Shep ripped Vasir apart). But she did earn the Spectre status.

Modifié par survivor_686, 08 août 2012 - 12:58 .

[flanny]

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...

neither is worthy, I though that was the point? Udina wanted someone to guard the council who wouldn't be smart enough to figure out what he was doing and someone who isn't strong enough to cause a problem. the VS make perfect sense.

Kaiden is an good soldier but not a great one, he doesn't have what it takes to get the job done and is unwilling to look long term when making decisions. He only advances because of his connection to Shepard.

Ashley is a hard fighting grunt, but a grunt all the same she does very little to make her stand out of the rank and file and if she had never met Shepard she'd still likely be NCO.

Neither compares to Shepard, Anderson or Saren

If neither is worthy, why would the other councilors accept them as spectres?

politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

[flanny]

survivor_686 wrote...

With all due respect to OP, you may have skipped over a few key details:
- Ashley is blacklisted, not due to her behavior, but due to the actions of her grandfather (surrendering the garrison after fighting off the Turians through intense guerrilla warfare)

- Despite family blacklisting, Ashley has managed to push herself through the ranks. That's got to be a testament to her skills

- Ashley has been noted to have an excellent service record (tutored other members of her platoon, received commendations in marksmanship and assault training)

- Toughest and deadliest NPC. Other than a soldier Shepard, Ashley is one of the toughest and deadly squadmates in ME1. Seriously, just assign her powers correctly, hand her a shotgun and send her ahead of you. Its a lifesaver sometimes. OR just givre her a Revenant in ME3.

- No powers. Well not everyone can be blessed with the powers to manipulate dark energy

- Promotion to rank and activities: Given that despite Shepard saving the citadel, he hasn't been promoted. Ashley had to have earned her promotions and in the time between games has increased in rank and importance. Looking at her ME3 armor, one can see wings, indicating that she has joined some sort of "paratrooper" unit. She hasn't been sitting around, as so many have accused

- "Anti-Alien" bias: First off, if one were to explore just a little bit further, Ashley is imply cynical of alien political leadership. She notes several uncomfortable facts and isn't afraid to state them. Several of her predictions to come through (Guess which world the Council seem ok to let burn?). Note her interactions with the rest of the Normandy crew and she is quite friendly and supportive. Ashley is a cynic...not a racist.

- Ashley earned her rank and her Spectre status due to the fact that she's a tough as nail, deadly and loyal Alliance soldier. She may not have Kaidan's biotics, Shepard's charm or Vasir's shotgun (my soldier Shep ripped Vasir apart). But she did earn the Spectre status.

so saving the galaxy doesn't deserve a promotion for Shepard but Ashely is supposed to have done someone more importent in the mean time to take her from a NCO one rank behind Shepard, yeah right. It's just like what Jacob said in ME2, the Alliance wanted a hero but didn't want that hero to be Shepard.

[BDelacroix]

In ME1 being asked to be a spectre was a special thing. By the time we get to 3 it seems everyone is being asked to join the spectres.

[Ageless Face]

flanny wrote...
politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

On the other hand, the only person that could have politically use Kaidan and Ashley was Udina, for something the other councilors didn't even know of (if Udina even wanted Kaidan and Ashley for that. If he did, then he's more stupid than we thought he is). They accepted Kaidan and Ashley for their skills.

BDelacroix wrote...
In ME1 being asked to be a spectre was a special thing. By the time we get to 3 it seems everyone is being asked to join the spectres.

Who is everyone? Kaidan OR Ashley?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 août 2012 - 01:21 .

[JDee3]

When Ash was asked to be a Specter I was like UUGGHHH I already don't like her.. but for some reason always save her in ME1.. I can't help it

[Goneaviking]

flanny wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...

neither is worthy, I though that was the point? Udina wanted someone to guard the council who wouldn't be smart enough to figure out what he was doing and someone who isn't strong enough to cause a problem. the VS make perfect sense.

Kaiden is an good soldier but not a great one, he doesn't have what it takes to get the job done and is unwilling to look long term when making decisions. He only advances because of his connection to Shepard.

Ashley is a hard fighting grunt, but a grunt all the same she does very little to make her stand out of the rank and file and if she had never met Shepard she'd still likely be NCO.

Neither compares to Shepard, Anderson or Saren

If neither is worthy, why would the other councilors accept them as spectres?

politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

Shepard was given the job as a gesture to shut the humans up. As far as the council was concerned Saren was a problem for the humans and they were fine with letting them deal with it, especially since the solution cost them nothing.

If being appointed as a political gesture (the same reason Harkin was protected in his position for so long) doesn't mark Shepard as unworthy of the role then it doesn't automatically blacklist Ashley either.

Ashley's relatively low rank prior to meeting Shepard had nothing to do with her capabilities and everything to do with having been tarred with the same brush that unjustly tainted her grandfather and father before her. Once she met Shepard she impressed Alenko, and Anderson, enough to be immediately be co-opted by the Normandy instead of continuing to serve as a glorified security guard on garrison duty.

As part of the crew she contributes well on missions with a player that knows how to use her character, and in dialogues with Shepard she makes astute observations about politics and the situation as it develops in the narrative.

After Shepard's death she is awarded a promotion and appears to be heading her own highly classified operations in the Terminus system. Admittedly the one she's performing on Horizon is working off flawed assumptions, they're assumptions that were entirely rational given Cerberus' behaviour in ME1 and the rumours that the Illusive Man had been circulating about Shepard's "defection".

During the introduction of ME3 she's giving evidence, or advice, or something to the defence council (or whatever they're called) which suggests very strongly that she's highly regarded within the Alliance military now. Her encounter with the squad from Normandy may have given her career a boost, but she had to be able to run with it both during the hunt for Saren and the three years between Saren's death and Reaper Invasion.

She earned her place. That claim is supported by three games that demonstrate both her competence and the increasingly high regard she's held in by her superiors.

[flanny]

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...
politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

On the other hand, the only person that could have politically use Kaidan and Ashley was Udina, for something the other councilors didn't even know of (if Udina even wanted Kaidan and Ashley for that. If he did, then he's more stupid than we thought he is). They accepted Kaidan and Ashley for their skills.

Udina asked and the Council rejected it was only when Shepard proved himself by exposing Saren that the Council asked him to be a Spectre, nothing political about it, Goyle pushed Anderson just as much and got no where. The Council was scared and not in a strong position in ME3, plus Udina was a Councilor as well, that's how Udina was able to get his way.

[Goneaviking]

flanny wrote...

so saving the galaxy doesn't deserve a promotion for Shepard but Ashely is supposed to have done someone more importent in the mean time to take her from a NCO one rank behind Shepard, yeah right. It's just like what Jacob said in ME2, the Alliance wanted a hero but didn't want that hero to be Shepard.

I believe that what Jacob said was that they replaced Shepard's face on the recruiting posters with a composite image that tested better with marketing groups.

Also that the PTB have a vested interest in keeping stories of near-misses (like Sovereign) under wraps to keep people from realizing how vulnerable the system is, and how close people have come to knocking over the apple cart.

One reason Shepard wasn't promoted after Saren: he died a month after the final showdown and when next seen he was running around with a terrorist organisation. Promoting him while he was believed to be with Cerberus would have been a very dangerous gesture to make, even more so when he returned to the Alliance after having been responsible for killing several hundred thousand batarians (if you've played Arrival).

So yeah, there's that.

[BDelacroix]

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...
politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

On the other hand, the only person that could have politically use Kaidan and Ashley was Udina, for something the other councilors didn't even know of (if Udina even wanted Kaidan and Ashley for that. If he did, then he's more stupid than we thought he is). They accepted Kaidan and Ashley for their skills.

BDelacroix wrote...
In ME1 being asked to be a spectre was a special thing. By the time we get to 3 it seems everyone is being asked to join the spectres.

Who is everyone? Kaidan OR Ashley?

Kaidan/Ashley, the jersey shore like guy from the basement.

[Dmthoth]

I agree. May be Ash has some powerful firends in Alliance. You know.. What I mean.. Her grandpa maybe.. That makes sence.

And Skills in ME3? Ash is useless. Overlaping with Vega. But Kaidan has Leave and Overload! Either you Soldier or Adept, It's really handy.

[Ageless Face]

flanny wrote...
Udina asked and the Council rejected it was only when Shepard proved himself by exposing Saren that the Council asked him to be a Spectre, nothing political about it, Goyle pushed Anderson just as much and got no where. The Council was scared and not in a strong position in ME3, plus Udina was a Councilor as well, that's how Udina was able to get his way.

Again, what are you talking about? The council wasn't very thrilled in having Shepard as a spectre. They did only for politics. The reasons that I said, To shut Udina up and for Saren not to embarrass them (not that they seem to care much for the latter).

"Ambassador, there is another solution. A way to stop Saren that doesn't require fleets or armies". Exactly what Tevos says after Udina critizing the council for their anti-human BS. If not for Saren going rouge, Shepard wouldn't have been asked to be made a spectre. If not for Udina pushing, Tevos wouldn't have proposed this.

Politics, politics, politics.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 août 2012 - 01:42 .

[AxStapleton]

Kaidan isn't very worthy if he's dead.

Anyway, the whole spectre thing with the VS, was Udina trying to gather allies for his coup.

Modifié par AxStapleton, 08 août 2012 - 01:43 .

[Goneaviking]

flanny wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...
politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

On the other hand, the only person that could have politically use Kaidan and Ashley was Udina, for something the other councilors didn't even know of (if Udina even wanted Kaidan and Ashley for that. If he did, then he's more stupid than we thought he is). They accepted Kaidan and Ashley for their skills.

Udina asked and the Council rejected it was only when Shepard proved himself by exposing Saren that the Council asked him to be a Spectre, nothing political about it, Goyle pushed Anderson just as much and got no where. The Council was scared and not in a strong position in ME3, plus Udina was a Councilor as well, that's how Udina was able to get his way.

Udina was pushing hard to get the Council to commit a fleet to hunting Saren and the geth. It would have been a costly endeavour that ran the risk of starting a major war on humanities behalf and publicly airing the fact that their most highly regarded operative had turned rogue and committed mass murder for his own ends.

Giving Shepard the promotion, and some Shepards actually propose it, costs them nothing. The Alliance foots the bill for the entire enterprise - they pay Shep's salary, his crew, supply a ship - even the spectre weapons aren't provided by the council. And it gives them the opportunity to say nothing about Saren's involvement in the massacre at Eden Prime (if Shepard mentions him to al-Jilani he's criticised for it according to Hackett).

So please, tell me again how there was nothing political about Shepard's appointment to the Spectres.

[Ageless Face]

AxStapleton wrote...

Kaidan isn't very worthy if he's dead.

That's what they said about Shepard... 

[Goneaviking]

BDelacroix wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...
politics, the VS even tell you it was Udina pushing for, not like Shepard who was asked my the Council 

... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

On the other hand, the only person that could have politically use Kaidan and Ashley was Udina, for something the other councilors didn't even know of (if Udina even wanted Kaidan and Ashley for that. If he did, then he's more stupid than we thought he is). They accepted Kaidan and Ashley for their skills.

BDelacroix wrote...
In ME1 being asked to be a spectre was a special thing. By the time we get to 3 it seems everyone is being asked to join the spectres.

Who is everyone? Kaidan OR Ashley?

Kaidan/Ashley, the jersey shore like guy from the basement.

James is offered a slot in the N7 program. Not affiliated with the Spectres at all. 

In fact Shepard remains the only person with both qualifications.

[AxStapleton]

HagarIshay wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Kaidan isn't very worthy if he's dead.

That's what they said about Shepard... 

If you can find someone who survived a nuclear explosion on Virmire then please foward me their resume.

Modifié par AxStapleton, 08 août 2012 - 01:46 .

[Ageless Face]

AxStapleton wrote...
If you can find someone who survived a nuclear explosion on Virmire then please foward me their resumes.

"Kaidan was born in 2151 into a family already familiar with space: his father served in the Alliance military. After his mother was downwind of a transport crash in Singapore, Kaidan was exposed in utero to element zero and beat the odds, gaining biotic potential instead of terminal brain cancer. At the time little was known about human biotics, but when the possibilities became better understood, a company called Conatix Industries was set up to track accidental eezo exposures. Children who showed enough potential to be worth augmenting with implants were 'encouraged' to attend BAaT (Biotic Acclimation and Temperance Training) which was conducted at Gagarin Station and nicknamed 'Brain Camp' by its attendees. As Kaidan tells Shepard, 'a bunch of guys in suits show up at your door after school, and next thing you know, you're out on Jump Zero.'"... 

Rest can be found here.

He lives in my game.

You were saying? 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 août 2012 - 01:53 .

[AxStapleton]

HagarIshay wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...
If you can find someone who survived a nuclear explosion on Virmire then please foward me their resumes.

"Kaidan was born in 2151 into a family already familiar with space: his father served in the Alliance military. After his mother was downwind of a transport crash in Singapore, Kaidan was exposed in utero to element zero and beat the odds, gaining biotic potential instead of terminal brain cancer. At the time little was known about human biotics, but when the possibilities became better understood, a company called Conatix Industries was set up to track accidental eezo exposures. Children who showed enough potential to be worth augmenting with implants were 'encouraged' to attend BAaT (Biotic Acclimation and Temperance Training) which was conducted at Gagarin Station and nicknamed 'Brain Camp' by its attendees. As Kaidan tells Shepard, 'a bunch of guys in suits show up at your door after school, and next thing you know, you're out on Jump Zero.'"... 

Rest can be found here.

He lives on my game.

You were saying? 

Oh come on, we could quote any squadmate if we were saying that they didn't need to be within 100 m of the blast.

[AxStapleton]

Flog61 wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Kaidan isn't very worthy if he's dead.

That's what they said about Shepard... 

If you can find someone who survived a nuclear explosion on Virmire then please foward me their resume.

If you can find someone who survived entry into a planet's atmosphere wearing nothing but a space suit, as well as surviving suffocation, please forward me their resume

Shepard didn't survive, remember?