217 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

Both Kaiden and Ashley weren't qualified to be Spectres. I admit that freely as an Ashley fanboy. Spectres are suppose to be the best of the best, the right hand of the council and one of the deadliest weapons in the Galaxy.

The VS just isn't Spectre material. However Ash and Kaiden still have an impressive record and are two of the best soldiers in the Alliance. So there's no denying their impressive feats. If this were real life, i'd probably put Ashley and Kaiden's talent on the same level as Delta Team. They're that good. Qualified for Spectres though? Eh not so much. The only squadmates in Mass Effect that were good enough to be Spectres were:

Garrus
Samara
Miranda

And of those 3, Garrus is the only one of those that could in the future become one. Samara is already a Justicar, and they wouldn't let Miranda in cause of her history.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 08 août 2012 - 01:57 .

[andy6915]

HagarIshay wrote...
... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

What are you talking about? Nihlus personally put Shepard's name forward as a spectre candidate. He tells you this himself if you ask him in ME1. He saw your skill, and put a good word in for you with the Council. They approved, and told him to watch Shepard to be certain, which is why he was to spend several missions with you. You was one single step away from becoming a spectre, based solely on your abilities and past badass things Shepard did. When you was finally promoted to it, that was the Council merely sidestepping that last step. It was anything but political. Granted, getting a human into spectre ranks was political, but Shepard being the one chosen was anything but.

Flog61 wrote...
The stuff I have bolded also applies to Kaidan
as well, so they arent really valid points for any side of this
argument....

Funny, I specifically noted this myself, more then once at that. Try actually reading before posting.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 01:57 .

[AxStapleton]

Anyway, my point is that neither would have become a spectre then if it wasn't for Udina, so saying one is qualified and not the other is sort of moot.

[Rafficus III]

Kaidan wasn't blacklisted because of his family name, so no wonder why he had higher rank. Ash is better with weaponry and can make a gun dance. She's the best offensive damager in ME3 behind Shepard, if spec'd right, or can be an excellent sharp shooter. While Kaidan has great abilities and is less questioning of you, at the end of the day you are simply trying to compare apples to oranges based critically based off of personal opinion.

[spirosz]

Both weren't good, IMO.

[Ageless Face]

andy69156915 wrote...
What are you talking about? Nihlus personally put Shepard's name forward as a spectre candidate. He tells you this himself if you ask him in ME1. He saw your skill, and put a good word in for you with the Council. They approved, and told him to watch Shepard to be certain, which is why he was to spend several missions with you. You was one single step away from becoming a spectre, based solely on your abilities and past badass things Shepard did. When you was finally promoted to it, that was the Council merely sidestepping that last step. It was anything but political. Granted, getting a human into spectre ranks was political, but Shepard being the one chosen was anything but.

After Eden Prime? The council wasn't very thrilled into giving Shepard the Spectre status. Why did Tevos suggested Shepard becoming a Spectre? Because they wanted to stop Saren. Why did they wanted to stop Saren? To shut Udina up. As I said, even Shepard can see it as a political move. "You don't have to sent a fleet after Saren and Udina get his human spectre. Everybody's happy".

Of course Shepard wouldn't have been considered if not for his/her skills. But there are plenty of political reasons why to make Shepard a spectre.

[andy6915]

HagarIshay wrote...
After Eden Prime? The council wasn't very thrilled into giving Shepard the Spectre status. Why did Tevos suggested Shepard becoming a Spectre? Because they wanted to stop Saren. Why did they wanted to stop Saren? To shut Udina up. As I said, even Shepard can see it as a political move. "You don't have to sent a fleet after Saren and Udina get his human spectre. Everybody's happy"

Shepard was already a candidate, with his/her name already on the list of people who could become spectre. Nihlus made that clear. The only one who even brought issue about Shepard getting fully approved was the mean old Turian. The other two either had no complaints (Salarian) or flat-out requested it (Asari).

You appear to have not played ME1 in a while. I on the other hand, played it all the way through just last week, so the details of the game are still fresh in my mind. You've forgotten a lot of details.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 02:18 .

[spirosz]

HagarIshay wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
What are you talking about? Nihlus personally put Shepard's name forward as a spectre candidate. He tells you this himself if you ask him in ME1. He saw your skill, and put a good word in for you with the Council. They approved, and told him to watch Shepard to be certain, which is why he was to spend several missions with you. You was one single step away from becoming a spectre, based solely on your abilities and past badass things Shepard did. When you was finally promoted to it, that was the Council merely sidestepping that last step. It was anything but political. Granted, getting a human into spectre ranks was political, but Shepard being the one chosen was anything but.

After Eden Prime? The council wasn't very thrilled into giving Shepard the Spectre status. Why did Tevos suggested Shepard becoming a Spectre? Because they wanted to stop Saren. Why did they wanted to stop Saren? To shut Udina up. As I said, even Shepard can see it as a political move. "You don't have to sent a fleet after Saren and Udina get his human spectre. Everybody's happy".

Of course Shepard wouldn't have been considered if not for his/her skills. But there are plenty of political reasons why to make Shepard a spectre.

So the political movement for Kaidan and Ashley is to shutup the Kaidan and Ashley fans? 

Modifié par spirosz, 08 août 2012 - 02:18 .

[Brother Takka]

I think you need to calm down OP. Getting this bent out of shape over a plot device is....... Distressing.


Any way as it is in the real world. It's not what you know it's who. Also in ME2 Anderson said that Ash was on some classified missions. Any way I'm done talking about this I don't really care.

[Ageless Face]

spirosz wrote...

So the political movement for Kaidan and Ashley is to shutup the Kaidan and Ashley fans? 

What...?

[andy6915]

Brother Takka wrote...

I think you need to calm down OP. Getting this bent out of shape over a plot device is....... Distressing.


Any way as it is in the real world. It's not what you know it's who. Also in ME2 Anderson said that Ash was on some classified missions. Any way I'm done talking about this I don't really care.

I'm not bent of shape. Do you see me using exclamation points, or using smileys to show annoyance or anger, or posting images showing my "reactions", or insulting anyone? No, you don't. I'm being quite calm and rational right now.

[flanny]

andy69156915 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...
... What are you talking about? The council after Eden Prime didn't want Shepard as a spectre. It was Udina who pushed it. The only reason of making Shepard a spectre was to shut Udina up, and for Saren not to emberess the council. It was a political move as it could have gotten (talk with Maeko Matsuo on Norveria, you can even tell her that it was nothing more than a political move).

What are you talking about? Nihlus personally put Shepard's name forward as a spectre candidate. He tells you this himself if you ask him in ME1. He saw your skill, and put a good word in for you with the Council. They approved, and told him to watch Shepard to be certain, which is why he was to spend several missions with you. You was one single step away from becoming a spectre, based solely on your abilities and past badass things Shepard did. When you was finally promoted to it, that was the Council merely sidestepping that last step. It was anything but political. Granted, getting a human into spectre ranks was political, but Shepard being the one chosen was anything but.

exactly Shepard earned it, the Council in ME1 wouldn't have made a Human a Spectre unless they wanted him to become a Spectre. the VS only becomes one as Udina by this time has the influence to make them a Spectre and he does it at a time when the other councilors have bigger things on their mind

[Ageless Face]

andy69156915 wrote...
Shepard was already a candidate, with his/her name already on the list of people who could become spectre. Nihlus made that clear. The only one who even brought issue about Shepard getting fully approved was the mean old Turian. The other two either had no complaints (Salarian) or flat-out requested it (Asari).

You appear to have not played ME1 in a while. I on the other hand, played it all the way through just last week, so the details of the game are still fresh in my mind. You've forgotten a lot of details.

No, I didn't forget any details. I'm saying something that is very clear. If not for Udina going berserk on the council, it would have taken a lot longer for Shepard to be a spectre. Shepard being a spectre is a compromise to appease Udina. Shepard can say that him/herself.

Since the Turian counilor seem very much against the idea of Shepard coming to the Spectres, I'd assume their opinions changed about Shepard after Eden Prime.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 août 2012 - 02:28 .

[andy6915]

HagarIshay wrote...
No, I didn't forget any details. I'm saying something that is very clear. If not for Udina going berserk on the council, it would have taken a lot longer for Shepard to be a spectre. Shepard being a spectre is a compromise to appease Udina. Shepard can say that him/herself.

You just actually helped my point. You just said it yourself, Shepard was inevitably going to become a spectre, and that the Council merely sped the process along. Shepard was on the list, they had been watching Shepard for years, and one of their spectres gave a recommendation. It was going to happen, period, it was just a matter of when. And at that moment, the Council needed a human spectre sooner rather then later.

[Ageless Face]

andy69156915 wrote...
You just actually helped my point. You just said it yourself, Shepard was inevitably going to become a spectre, and that the Council merely sped the process along. Shepard was on the list, they had been watching Shepard for years, and one of their spectres gave a recommendation. It was going to happen, period, it was just a matter of when. And at that moment, the Council needed a human spectre sooner rather then later.

I never said Shepard would never become a Spectre (Turian councilor says it's too soon for the humans to join, not that Humans should never be Spectres). I meant that when the council DID make him/her, it was a political move. Shepard being made a spectre is political. If not for Saren and Eden Prime, things might have been different. As I said, I recognize Shepard being considered as him/her being highly skilled. But as it stood at the moment, it WAS politics that gave Shepard the status.

The council could have sent any Spectre after Saren. They didn't need specifically human. But since the humans wanted a Spectre so much, and it was a human's problem that the council didn't want to deal with, they sent Shepard.

[andy6915]

HagarIshay wrote...
I never said Shepard would never become a Spectre (Turian councilor says it's too soon for the humans to join, not that Humans should never be Spectres). I meant that when the council DID make him/her, it was a political move. Shepard being made a spectre is political. If not for Saren and Eden Prime, things might have been different. As I said, I recognize Shepard being considered as him/her being highly skilled. But as it stood at the moment, it WAS politics that gave Shepard the status.

The council could have sent any Spectre after Saren. They didn't need specifically human. But since the humans wanted a Spectre so much, and it was a human's problem that the council didn't want to deal with, they sent Shepard.

No, if not for Saren, Nihlus would have given the final approval for Shepard becoming a spectre after a few mission together. Shepard becoming a spectre happened only a few weeks earlier then he/she would have if not for Saren. He didn't make a big difference.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 02:46 .

[Ageless Face]

Point still stands.

[andy6915]

HagarIshay wrote...

Point still stands.

What point? Shepard was going to become a spectre based on their ability and prior accomplishments, period. Saren or no Saren, it was going to happen very, very soon.

I take it this means you're giving up and admitting you lost the argument?

[robertthebard]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Like being a spectre even matters anymore.
What does it do for Ash/Kaidan in ME3? NOTHING.
What does it do for Shepard except giving him access to one room and 3 very expensive guns? NOTHING

That's not exactly true, it gets one or the other of them killed for being a ****** and believing Udina.  Which is the only reason either one of them got recommended in the first place.  Can you say "Bribe"?

[Ageless Face]

Point stands that Shepard being given a Spectre status in the time it happened was political.

[andy6915]

HagarIshay wrote...

Point stands that Shepard being given a Spectre status in the time it happened was political.

No, if Shepard was made a spectre only because of Saren, then it would have been politcal. Shepard wasn't though, it merely got bumped up on the schedule. The timing was simply because Shepard wanted to be the one to take him down, and the Council knew that making him/her a spectre was the way to allow that.

[eye basher]

Both kaidan and ahsley are just puppets for udina without him they never would've been spectres.

[Ageless Face]

andy69156915 wrote...
No, if Shepard was made a spectre only because of Saren, then it would have been politcal. Shepard wasn't though, it merely got bumped up on the schedule. The timing was simply because Shepard wanted to be the one to take him down, and the Council knew that making him/her a spectre was the way to allow that.

If it wasn't political, then Shepard wouldn't have gotten the status in the time s/he did. S/he would have gotten it some weeks afterwards, like you said. Saren was a political problem, and Shepard was the political solution.

I said it many times, and I will say it again. I know Shepard is a skilled soldier. I know that Shepard wouldn't have been asked if s/he wasn't a good soldier. But the status- again, in the specific time it was given- was a political move. Shepard can recognize that, Shepard can even say that on Norveria to Matsuo.

[garrusfan1]

Ash deserved her rank as much as Kaiden seriously. You just don't like her. Kaiden and her went on the same mission in me2 remember. And ash isn't a biotic but is better with weapons then kaiden. So your argument is worthless

[andy6915]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Ash deserved her rank as much as Kaiden seriously. You just don't like her. Kaiden and her went on the same mission in me2 remember. And ash isn't a biotic but is better with weapons then kaiden. So your argument is worthless

I actually do like Ashley. I also like Tali, Vega, and every other character that has ever been a party member. But that doesn't mean I think that every last one of them is worthy of being a spectre. I like Tali, but if she was made spectre, I would call bull on it.