217 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Ash deserved her rank as much as Kaiden seriously. You just don't like her. Kaiden and her went on the same mission in me2 remember. And ash isn't a biotic but is better with weapons then kaiden. So your argument is worthless

They went on the same mission because they were crammed into the same character arc.

[flanny]

HagarIshay wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
No, if Shepard was made a spectre only because of Saren, then it would have been politcal. Shepard wasn't though, it merely got bumped up on the schedule. The timing was simply because Shepard wanted to be the one to take him down, and the Council knew that making him/her a spectre was the way to allow that.

If it wasn't political, then Shepard wouldn't have gotten the status in the time s/he did. S/he would have gotten it some weeks afterwards, like you said. Saren was a political problem, and Shepard was the political solution.

I said it many times, and I will say it again. I know Shepard is a skilled soldier. I know that Shepard wouldn't have been asked if s/he wasn't a good soldier. But the status- again, in the specific time it was given- was a political move. Shepard can recognize that, Shepard can even say that on Norveria to Matsuo.

so you admit Shepard became a Spectre on merits and even without Udina have likely became one anyway, but you still insist it was political...<_<

I guess you just can't win with some people.

[garrusfan1]

klarabella wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Ash deserved her rank as much as Kaiden seriously. You just don't like her. Kaiden and her went on the same mission in me2 remember. And ash isn't a biotic but is better with weapons then kaiden. So your argument is worthless

They went on the same mission because they were crammed into the same character arc.

Well I definetly can tell you don't like ash I happen to really like her. So you are biased. And sorry they put them in the same character arc how dare they

[Ageless Face]

flanny wrote...
so you admit Shepard became a Spectre on merits and even without Udina have likely became one anyway, but you still insist it was political...<_<

I guess you just can't win with some people.

*Sigh*

I'm saying that in different circumstances, Shepard could have gotten the position without politics. With everything that happened with Saren, Shepard got the position because of because Udina and Saren. If Udina not pushing, Shepard wouldn't have gotten the position at the time. Because of Udina, Shepard got the position earlier than the council wanted, BECAUSE of politics. Yes, also because of skills. But if it was only for his/her skills, Shepard wouldn't have gotten the position in the time s/he did. The council would have sent another spectre after Saren, or wouldn't have sent anyone at all.

[WarGriffin]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Both Kaiden and Ashley weren't qualified to be Spectres. I admit that freely as an Ashley fanboy. Spectres are suppose to be the best of the best, the right hand of the council and one of the deadliest weapons in the Galaxy.

The VS just isn't Spectre material. However Ash and Kaiden still have an impressive record and are two of the best soldiers in the Alliance. So there's no denying their impressive feats. If this were real life, i'd probably put Ashley and Kaiden's talent on the same level as Delta Team. They're that good. Qualified for Spectres though? Eh not so much. The only squadmates in Mass Effect that were good enough to be Spectres were:

Garrus
Samara
Miranda

And of those 3, Garrus is the only one of those that could in the future become one. Samara is already a Justicar, and they wouldn't let Miranda in cause of her history.

I fail to see how Garrus qualfies more then anybody else, especailly when the stuff that does qualify him is on par with what Ashley and Kaidan have been doing without Shepard.

[BDelacroix]

WarGriffin wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Both Kaiden and Ashley weren't qualified to be Spectres. I admit that freely as an Ashley fanboy. Spectres are suppose to be the best of the best, the right hand of the council and one of the deadliest weapons in the Galaxy.

The VS just isn't Spectre material. However Ash and Kaiden still have an impressive record and are two of the best soldiers in the Alliance. So there's no denying their impressive feats. If this were real life, i'd probably put Ashley and Kaiden's talent on the same level as Delta Team. They're that good. Qualified for Spectres though? Eh not so much. The only squadmates in Mass Effect that were good enough to be Spectres were:

Garrus
Samara
Miranda

And of those 3, Garrus is the only one of those that could in the future become one. Samara is already a Justicar, and they wouldn't let Miranda in cause of her history.

I fail to see how Garrus qualfies more then anybody else, especailly when the stuff that does qualify him is on par with what Ashley and Kaidan have been doing without Shepard.

I dunno, he has that sole survivor thing going for him during his stent as Archangel.  Well mostly sole survivor until we came along and bailed him out.  Still, surely he would have made it eventually.

[WarGriffin]

BDelacroix wrote...

WarGriffin wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Both Kaiden and Ashley weren't qualified to be Spectres. I admit that freely as an Ashley fanboy. Spectres are suppose to be the best of the best, the right hand of the council and one of the deadliest weapons in the Galaxy.

The VS just isn't Spectre material. However Ash and Kaiden still have an impressive record and are two of the best soldiers in the Alliance. So there's no denying their impressive feats. If this were real life, i'd probably put Ashley and Kaiden's talent on the same level as Delta Team. They're that good. Qualified for Spectres though? Eh not so much. The only squadmates in Mass Effect that were good enough to be Spectres were:

Garrus
Samara
Miranda

And of those 3, Garrus is the only one of those that could in the future become one. Samara is already a Justicar, and they wouldn't let Miranda in cause of her history.

I fail to see how Garrus qualfies more then anybody else, especailly when the stuff that does qualify him is on par with what Ashley and Kaidan have been doing without Shepard.

I dunno, he has that sole survivor thing going for him during his stent as Archangel.  Well mostly sole survivor until we came along and bailed him out.  Still, surely he would have made it eventually.

But that happened with Ashley before hand with the Geth, and the only difference is Garrus got to pick his last stand... before Shepard showed up to bail them out

[nos_astra]

flanny wrote...
so you admit Shepard became a Spectre on merits and even without Udina have likely became one anyway, but you still insist it was political...<_<

I guess you just can't win with some people.

Kaidan and Ash became Spectres on merits, too. After the first human Spectre failed pretty hard on the "loyal to the Council" part I don't think the Council would easily swallow whomever Udina offered to them.

Ties to Shepard might actually hurt their chances to be approved because while they are distrustful when speaking to Shepard, they do speak in Shepard's favor during the hearing and in their reports after Horizon. Udina must have been blind to overlook those vestiges of loyalty to Shepard.

Someone claimed that Nihlus chose Shepard. He does say something to that extend but I don't think it quite covers what happens in ME1. You see Hackett, Anderson and Udina agree on Shepard to be someone who is supposed to "protect the galaxy". I don't think they were talking about the position as an XO on the Normandy. Why would anyone ask these three for their approval on making Shepard a Spectre?

I don't think there's a huge difference. In both cases Udina chose an appealing candidate and then pushed for them.

[Asch Lavigne]

I wish them being a Spectre had more of an impact on the game. I also feel like they shouldn't have been made one until after helping to protect the Council during the coup.

[Ageless Face]

Asch Lavigne wrote...
I wish them being a Spectre had more of an impact on the game. I also feel like they shouldn't have been made one until after helping to protect the Council during the coup.

I agree. Even though I think they deserve it, it seems odd they got their Spectre status while sitting in a hospital. It'll make much more sense for them to get the Spectre status after making a huge favor for the council.

And what, you expect Spectre status to have any impact in Mass Effect? 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 08 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[andy6915]

klarabella wrote...
Someone claimed that Nihlus chose Shepard. He does say something to that extend but I don't think it quite covers what happens in ME1. You see Hackett, Anderson and Udina agree on Shepard to be someone who is supposed to "protect the galaxy". I don't think they were talking about the position as an XO on the Normandy. Why would anyone ask these three for their approval on making Shepard a Spectre?

"That's why I put your name forward as a candidate for the spectres."

"Why would a Turian want a human in the spectres?"

"Not all Turians resent humanity. Some of us see the potential of your species. We see what you have to offer to the rest of the galaxy... And to the spectres. We are an elite group. It's rare to find individuals with the skills we seek. I don't care that you're human, Shepard. I only care that you can do the job."




Seems pretty clear to me.

Modifié par andy69156915, 08 août 2012 - 04:12 .

[SNascimento]

Ashley suffers from the same issue Tali and Liara suffer. They shouldn't be as effective in a battlefield as other squadmates (like Wrex and Garrus, to keep the ME1 crew). But magically they are.

[Yakko77]

flanny wrote...

so saving the galaxy doesn't deserve a promotion for Shepard but Ashely is supposed to have done someone more importent in the mean time to take her from a NCO one rank behind Shepard, yeah right. It's just like what Jacob said in ME2, the Alliance wanted a hero but didn't want that hero to be Shepard.

Yeah, I never understood how Commander Shepard is the same rank all this time.  Sheps actions in ME1  should've gotten a promotion to Captain with the saving of the Citadel.  And with Sheps reinstatement vocally by Anderson and officially by letter from Hackett, Shep should've at least had the brevet (temporary wartime promotion) rank of at least a 1 star Admiral or whatever the Alliance equivalent is.

I think the writers just like the title "Commander" as that by itself implies leader.  Generally, whatever Sheps official rank doesn't accomplish is often bypassed with Sheps Sprectre status, or sheer respect of reputation and accomplishment or lots of screaming and failing that gun fire gets what Shep wants! 

[robertthebard]

HagarIshay wrote...

flanny wrote...
so you admit Shepard became a Spectre on merits and even without Udina have likely became one anyway, but you still insist it was political...<_<

I guess you just can't win with some people.

*Sigh*

I'm saying that in different circumstances, Shepard could have gotten the position without politics. With everything that happened with Saren, Shepard got the position because of because Udina and Saren. If Udina not pushing, Shepard wouldn't have gotten the position at the time. Because of Udina, Shepard got the position earlier than the council wanted, BECAUSE of politics. Yes, also because of skills. But if it was only for his/her skills, Shepard wouldn't have gotten the position in the time s/he did. The council would have sent another spectre after Saren, or wouldn't have sent anyone at all.

Since Spectres are an arm of the Council, there is never a time when it's not political.  They can shut Udina up by telling him, as they do, to shut up.  They make it perfectly clear that he has no right to make demands of the Council.  They make Shepard a Spectre because they need the embarrassment that is Saren dealt with, and Shepard is Johnny on the Spot, with knowledge of what's going on.  IF they had chosen Shepard on the spot, w/out having considered Shep previously, you would have a valid point about politically motivated.  However, since Shepard's name was already on the table, they simply fasttracked it, far from a simple political machination to shut up Udina.

[nos_astra]

andy69156915 wrote...


"That's why I put your name forward as a candidate for the spectres."

"Why would a Turian want a human in the spectres?"

"Not all Turians resent humanity. Some of us see the potential of your species. We see what you have to offer to the rest of the galaxy... And to the spectres. We are an elite group. It's rare to find individuals with the skills we seek. I don't care that you're human, Shepard. I only care that you can do the job."

Seems pretty clear to me.

Ah, contradicting information. I searched the wiki for information on how to become a Spectre a few days ago and came up with this:

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Spectres#Organization
Candidates for the Spectres typically have years of military or law enforcement experience before even being considered. The screening process involves background checks, psychological evaluations, and a long period of field training under an experienced mentor.

http://masseffect.wi...ki/Nihlus_Kryik
Nihlus was not only there to recover the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime, but to assess Commander Shepard's
candidacy for the Spectres. Nihlus intended to accompany Shepard on several missions, and would likely have become Shepard's mentor, but events took a tragic turn.

It's probably based on the books. I like it, though. Why would a turian Spectre suddenly decide to put forward a human in such a political climate all by himself anyway?
Shepard is an N7, ok. That's a good thing, for a human.
Shepard did something special, ok. That wasn't that recent, though.

Shepard being chosen by humans for their accomplishments and then put forward as a result polticial machinations as a sufficiently awesome candidate to compete with alien candidates makes a lot more sense to me. It also makes for a complex universe ... as opposed to horribly flat universe that revolves around the protagonist only, with everyone in the galaxy focusing their attention on that shiny beacon of pure awesome.

Modifié par klarabella, 08 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[Ghost]

No.

[Creston918]

Ashley/Kaidan being made a Spectre, to me, is just Udina manipulating them into being on his side when the Cerberus crap hits the fan. He doesn't count on Shepard being able to reason Kaidan/Ashley out of helping him.

I do agree that Ashley going from Gunnery Chief to Lt. Cmdr in 2 years is completely ridiculous. That would never happen in any kind of military organization, much less a military organization that keeps Commander Shepard the same rank that entire time.

Any commander that did what Shepard did in ME1 would be promoted. In fact, most likely, Shepard would be made a General or Admiral and given a trainer's job. Military units are notoriously prone to keeping their real-live heroes out of the line of fire.

[nos_astra]

Creston918 wrote...
Ashley/Kaidan being made a Spectre, to me, is just Udina manipulating them into being on his side when the Cerberus crap hits the fan. He doesn't count on Shepard being able to reason Kaidan/Ashley out of helping him.

And what does he base this assessment on? Does he pull it out of his ass?

Why would he assume they have cut all ties and would be willing to go against Shepard? They refused to work with Shepard because of Cerberus and that somehow translates into them being likely to be manipulated to do ... what exactly?

Their report after Horizon seemed favorable of Shepard. They also spoke in Shepard's favor during the hearing. And that somehow makes them good candidates to go against Shepard?

Seriously, some people can't logic. The VS having ties to Shepard makes them a liabilty for Udina, more than anyone else. It's unpredictable.

Modifié par klarabella, 08 août 2012 - 06:21 .

[Xarathox]

StrawHatMoose wrote...

I hate both of them. I would have killed them both in ME1 if I had the choice. I didn't get the chance to kill the survivor in ME3 either. Or I did it wrong. Wrex and Garrus and Tali are way better candidates, especially Wrex.

Spectre Tali...that would've been ingenious, actually. No one would've registered her as a threat until it was too late.

[knightnblu]

If you know me at all, then you know that I am no fan of Williams. However, I disagree with your assertion that she doesn't rate Spectre status. Williams is an excellent soldier and her ability to kill is unmatched. She even routinely posts kill counts higher than I can make as Shepard. Further, she is completely focused on the mission.

She proved that on Vrmire and again when she almost blew Shepard's head off on the Presidium defending the Council. When Anderson was on the Council he used her as a covert operative to gather intel. Her only drawback as a soldier is her inability to think abstractly. In short, she is a superb killer if not a supreme strategist and once she sets her sights on you she will not stop until she has you.

She survived Horizon when her entire unit was wiped out, she was willing to die in service to the galaxy on Vrmire, she is exquisitely proficient at killing, and she is goal oriented toward accomplishing her mission. She deserves to be a Spectre.

That said, she does not deserve to be a Lt. Commander. One does not rise through the ranks that quickly going from Gunnery Chief to a senior officer rank in 2.5 years unless it is a brevet rank. The entire ME ranking system is totally hosed to anybody who actually has military experience, but good luck trying to explain that to a civilian. Many have tried on these boards, but BioWare still hasn't gotten the message. Personally, I just ignore it.

[Mike 9987]

The VS story in this game was horribly done.

[Sousabird]

Yakko77 wrote...

flanny wrote...

so saving the galaxy doesn't deserve a promotion for Shepard but Ashely is supposed to have done someone more importent in the mean time to take her from a NCO one rank behind Shepard, yeah right. It's just like what Jacob said in ME2, the Alliance wanted a hero but didn't want that hero to be Shepard.

Yeah, I never understood how Commander Shepard is the same rank all this time.  Sheps actions in ME1  should've gotten a promotion to Captain with the saving of the Citadel.  And with Sheps reinstatement vocally by Anderson and officially by letter from Hackett, Shep should've at least had the brevet (temporary wartime promotion) rank of at least a 1 star Admiral or whatever the Alliance equivalent is.

I think the writers just like the title "Commander" as that by itself implies leader.  Generally, whatever Sheps official rank doesn't accomplish is often bypassed with Sheps Sprectre status, or sheer respect of reputation and accomplishment or lots of screaming and failing that gun fire gets what Shep wants! 

He did get promoted however his first name is Commander, Bioware just didn't clarify it well

[Tritium315]

The problem is post ME1 Kaiden and Ashley are the same character.