199 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobalt2113]

It's a good question.

I just assumed that shepard's organic systems had perhaps recovered to the point where they were no longer completely dependent on the synthetic implants to sustain basic functions.

He'd probably be in a fair amount of pain though.

[fchopin]

We don't know if Shepard survived, as far as i am concerned Shepard probably died.

[Pitznik]

Shepard survived the Mass Effect 3 game. He is breathing, and dead people don't breathe.

How? Because authors wanted so. Perhaps his implants are affected in similar way to other technology - low EMS - screwed up, high EMS - intact (vide Sword Fleet etc). Synthetic life is about programming, not hardware - vide Geth; EDI. Shepard had only hardware implanted, he wasn't synthetic life.

Will Shepard survive after the ending? We don't know, the story ends.

Real life probability leads to him dying.

The narrative (inclusion of the breath scene, the change of nameplate scene) implies that he'll live and that he can be rescued.

Is ME governed by real life probability or by the narrative?

Modifié par Pitznik, 08 août 2012 - 08:25 .

[Jadebaby]

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

[Jadebaby]

Anyone trying to apply lore or reasoning to this is being ridiculous. BioWare did not intend to make it so. That clip is a representation of hope because the writers thought without it "the (endings) would be too bleak."

It does not neccessarily happen in the story and is not involved with any other scene. It is a stand alone symbol. An "easter egg".

[Jadebaby]

And is as carelessly used lorewise, as the rest of the endings.

[Pitznik]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Anyone trying to apply lore or reasoning to this is being ridiculous. BioWare did not intend to make it so. That clip is a representation of hope because the writers thought without it "the (endings) would be too bleak."

It does not neccessarily happen in the story and is not involved with any other scene. It is a stand alone symbol. An "easter egg".

Inclusion of this scene in high EMS ending is pretty obvious in its meaning, it is not an easter egg by any definition.

This is not a standalone scene, the nameplate scene is change along with it.

Less Twitter, more ME3.

[Jadebaby]

Pitznik wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Anyone trying to apply lore or reasoning to this is being ridiculous. BioWare did not intend to make it so. That clip is a representation of hope because the writers thought without it "the (endings) would be too bleak."

It does not neccessarily happen in the story and is not involved with any other scene. It is a stand alone symbol. An "easter egg".

Inclusion of this scene in high EMS ending is pretty obvious in its meaning, it is not an easter egg by any definition.

This is not a standalone scene, the nameplate scene is change along with it.

Less Twitter, more ME3.

What because your LI hesitates before putting your name on the wall?

That is exactly what I'm talking about, it doesn't show or reveal anything. The memorial scene is just BioWare going "oh our breathe scene wasn't enough to give them false hope, let's chuck in something where the LI 'hopes' Shepard isn't dead, as well."

The bottom line is BioWare WAS going to kill Shepard in every ending, and as far as a lot of people are concerned, two scenes which don't indicate anything (bar implications) aren't enough to persuade them from BioWare's original intention.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 08 août 2012 - 08:56 .

[Pitznik]

Jade8aby88 wrote...


What because your LI hesitates before putting your name on the wall?

That is exactly what I'm talking about, it doesn't show or reveal anything. The memorial scene is just BioWare going "oh our breathe scene wasn't enough to give them false hope, let's chuck in something where the LI 'hopes' Shepard isn't dead, as well."

The bottom line is BioWare WAS going to kill Shepard in every ending, and as far as a lot of people are concerned, two scenes which don't indicate anything (bar implications) aren't enough to persuade them from BioWare's original intention.

Eh... like in every single work of fiction author was going to do plenty of things, yet didn't. Why would I care? What was done is important, not what could have been done. Less Twitter, more ME3. If two scenes and their implications aren't enough for you, it's ok, it works too. Shepard can die after last scene, it is perfectly possible. Just don't tell me it is the only interpretation, or that it is somehow better interpretation, because it is not. It is you who has to disregard two scenes, not me.

It is like with refusal ending - it is strongly implied that we lost, but it can be also read that we won, in our cycle. Unlikely, against the suggestions, but perfectly working.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Shepard is alive at the end of the high EMS destroy ending. Why? Because if they killed the MC at the end of all the endings they would sell zero copies of the DLC, and nearly the same number of copies of DA3 (that's almost zero). They realized this fact and changed their minds. Hence Shepard lives.

There are other reasons Shepard lives:

* the file name is ShepardAlive
* if Liara is the LI, Liara has a special bond with Shepard and she doesn't put Shepard's name on the wall. -- I know the others don't, but the others never mind melded to the extent she did. With her it's not wishful thinking.
* I don't believe what CP and Hepler troll.
* Besides, Liara would only find the body again, go to any lengths (i.e. kill whoever she had to, steal however amount of money needed) give the body and the money to Miranda, provide Miranda with whatever facilities she needed, and tell Miranda to do Lazarus II.
* Shepard lives.

[tanisha__unknown]

Not possible. Proves IT.

[Helios969]

GeoGirl2008 wrote...

devSin wrote...

Officially?

Chris Priestly wrote...

You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

You're not getting any other answer.

Except for the one where Jessica Merizan said that yes Shepard can be alive at the end...

Of course, she also said pre-ec that EDI could survive since she wasn't made from reaper-tech (which of course she is!)  Not that reaper-tech/no reaper-tech mattered anyway.

[o Ventus]

Isn't the ending file called "Shepard_Live_01" or something or other? I think that would be your answer.

[Lucrece]

He didn't ask whether he lived. He asked HOW. If the beam can discriminate on what it will destroy based on EMS, why did it have to vaporize the Geth/EDI? Because they don't want us to be happy with the ending.

[TheFlyingBeer]

Maybe we should just stop thinking with our "from-the-21th-century-human" brain, we shoud stop being realistic and logical: Bioware killed Shepard at the beginning of Mass Effect 2, then rebuilding it, with the same personnality, the same memories... Of course, in the real life, it could not be possible.
At the end of Mass Effect 3, Bioware "gives" us this breathe scene... and then close the curtains. So, with our culture/art/sensibility/logic/pessimism/optimism/realism/common sense/or whatever, we all try to fill the gap left by Bioware.

You/some people at Bioware say "Shepard is dead! s/he can't survive after such an explosion", you're right. You/some people at Bioware say "Shepard is alive!", you're right too. What happens next is up to us.
Nevertheless, I agree with some people here who feel desappointed and frustrated beacuse of the ending. Since ME1 (so since 5 years), we were not able to imagine anything in this universe. Why? Because we did not need to, Bioware did it for us: every action made, every word pronounced - even the less significant - had an consequence. I mean, writing such trees, such possibilities... the amount of work is a-ma-zing - and we should all be grateful to Bioware for that...
So, why Bioware didn't write such trees for the ending? It would have been very nice of them if they offered us a larger panel of endings (bad, dark, neutral, good, utopist) which respects both writer's and gamer's wishes.

We are able to build a Shepard character which respects our wishes and personnality, but all of those Shepard finish the same way. Sad!

I don't know why Bioware made this choice: Let the door open to a ME4 with Shepard or others DLC (I personnaly don't think so)? They really wanted a dark/open ending, like Inception? Is it a kind of "contemporary-not-conventionnaly" art?

[BerzerkGene]

Yeah i found it pretty implausible. Same for the reason someone would walk towards something that was exploding. Seeing as the place Shepard was standing explodes, it would have to be earth, which makes me wonder exactly how Shepard survived an orbital impact while in melted armour and basically bleeding to death.

[Goneaviking]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Yeah i found it pretty implausible. Same for the reason someone would walk towards something that was exploding. Seeing as the place Shepard was standing explodes, it would have to be earth, which makes me wonder exactly how Shepard survived an orbital impact while in melted armour and basically bleeding to death.

He's standing inside a giant Mass Relay when he turns it on. It sends him through the same transit thingy he got onto the Citadel through. He doesn't go through another orbital impact.

[The Twilight God]

Baa Baa wrote...

The only way I could possibly explain it is that the Citadel exploded an hour or two after the Crucible was actually fired. And that gave Shepard time to go down the elevator (if that even somehow works) and get to one of the "wings" that end up for some reason being the only damaged part of the Citadel in the slides.
I still have no idea why they didn't retcon the Citadel exploding in the center. They show it, then in the next slide, only the ends are torn up, wtf.

Actually the Presidium blows up. More specifically the areas were the ward arms connect. The combined visualization of those four explosions may appaer to be one central explosion, but it isn't. The beam that fires from the Citadel only effect synthetics so Shepard's organic parts would be fine in theory. How much of Shepard is synthetic? Good question. His face and eyes are. So he's blind and has no motor control of his face. His spine was repaired with cybernetics so he is paralyzed at least from the waste down. He had a break in the neck and mid torso too but the opening scene only showed spinal repair to the break right above the pelvis. If synthesis is believed and his particular "energy" was needed his cells must have beem loaded with synthetic nanites. So... should he expect cellular decay? Organ failure??? Even if he "survives" he's a crippled vegetable with a slow lonely death to look forward to in a cold dark interior of the Citadel. What a wonderful ending for our hero. Thank you, Bioware.

[MegaSovereign]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

Why produce the scene in the first place if Bioware didn't want to imply that Shepard was alive?

Even the Normandy memorial scene implied that Shepard was still alive, or at least not confirmed to be dead yet.

[MattFini]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

Why produce the scene in the first place if Bioware didn't want to imply that Shepard was alive?

Even the Normandy memorial scene implied that Shepard was still alive, or at least not confirmed to be dead yet.

Exactly.  

I'm really astounded that people choose to think, "yes, that is just Shepard's last breath" over the positive connotations of that scene. 

It's even more painfully obvious in the EC when it's the only time Shep's name isn't posted to the Normandy casualty wall. And if you romanced Jack or Miranda, it's the only time you'll get the still of them looking to the skies hopefully.  

It's precisely the HALO 3 Legendary move.  You work a little harder and you find out that Shepard is still alive. 

[flanny]

I've never seen the breath scene as Shepard 'surviving' simply as him long enough to know that he (and the catalyst) have stopped the reaper threat, so he can know die happy

Modifié par flanny, 08 août 2012 - 02:51 .

[The Twilight God]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

Why produce the scene in the first place if Bioware didn't want to imply that Shepard was alive?

Even the Normandy memorial scene implied that Shepard was still alive, or at least not confirmed to be dead yet.

The point is so people don't whine about Shepard dying in all endings. He does, but they trick you into falsely hopping he lives. If they wanted him alive the stargazer would be replaced by a scene showing him reading a story to a little asari girl or stepping into his backyard and wacthing Tali with no helmet gardening or just in a bar having drinks with everyone. They didn't because he doesn't make it out. 

[MegaSovereign]

The Twilight God wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

Why produce the scene in the first place if Bioware didn't want to imply that Shepard was alive?

Even the Normandy memorial scene implied that Shepard was still alive, or at least not confirmed to be dead yet.

The point is so people don't whine about Shepard dying in all endings. He does, but they trick you into falsely hopping he lives. If they wanted him alive the stargazer would be replaced by a scene showing him reading a story to a little asari girl or stepping into his backyard and wacthing Tali with no helmet gardening or just in a bar having drinks with everyone. They didn't because he doesn't make it out. 

The Destroy ending implies differently.

Just because they don't show a scene of him telling stories to children, that doesn't mean he's dead. All that's proof for is that Bioware wanted people to headcanon what happened after the breath scene.


Shepard is alive, this wasn't even up for debate until Chris Hepler made a trollolol comment (that even the rest of the Bioware table boo'ed).

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 08 août 2012 - 03:00 .

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Destroy ending implies differently.

Just because they don't show a scene of him telling stories to children, that doesn't mean he's dead. All that's proof for is that Bioware wanted people to headcanon what happened after the breath scene.


Shepard is alive, this wasn't even up for debate until Chris Hepler made a trollolol comment (that even the rest of the Bioware table boo'ed).

Implication is not proof.  EC was to provide clarity and closure and that scene wasn't touched.  They could as eaily have expanded/replaced the scene to Shepard climbing out of the rubble, recuperating in a hospital, being rescued by the Alliance, or added a message to the Normandy saying that Shepard had been found alive (how's that for hopeful to have that piped through the intercomm during the memorial scene?)  Headcanon would be just as easy, easier even, since then we'd know Shepard would survive, and is not just "not dad yet"

Given the utter lack of expansion on the scene, and the fact that pre-EC it was impossible to achieve through single player alone, I'm still calling noncanon easter egg, fanfiction fuel

All the Hepler quip did was bring to the forefront a concern that was on people's minds already.  It would not have caused such a stir if that scene couldn't easily be interpreted to be exactly what he described.

Modifié par iakus, 08 août 2012 - 04:18 .

[D24O]

Jinx1720 wrote...

Not possible. Proves IT.