199 réponses à ce sujet

[BABYRHINO97]

The Twilight God wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

The only way I could possibly explain it is that the Citadel exploded an hour or two after the Crucible was actually fired. And that gave Shepard time to go down the elevator (if that even somehow works) and get to one of the "wings" that end up for some reason being the only damaged part of the Citadel in the slides.
I still have no idea why they didn't retcon the Citadel exploding in the center. They show it, then in the next slide, only the ends are torn up, wtf.

Actually the Presidium blows up. More specifically the areas were the ward arms connect. The combined visualization of those four explosions may appaer to be one central explosion, but it isn't. The beam that fires from the Citadel only effect synthetics so Shepard's organic parts would be fine in theory. How much of Shepard is synthetic? Good question. His face and eyes are. So he's blind and has no motor control of his face. His spine was repaired with cybernetics so he is paralyzed at least from the waste down. He had a break in the neck and mid torso too but the opening scene only showed spinal repair to the break right above the pelvis. If synthesis is believed and his particular "energy" was needed his cells must have beem loaded with synthetic nanites. So... should he expect cellular decay? Organ failure??? Even if he "survives" he's a crippled vegetable with a slow lonely death to look forward to in a cold dark interior of the Citadel. What a wonderful ending for our hero. Thank you, Bioware.

The destroy ending only eradicates AI and synthetic life. Shepard is neither. The machines keeping him alive are no different than a pacemaker in today's world.

[The Twilight God]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

Why produce the scene in the first place if Bioware didn't want to imply that Shepard was alive?

Even the Normandy memorial scene implied that Shepard was still alive, or at least not confirmed to be dead yet.

The point is so people don't whine about Shepard dying in all endings. He does, but they trick you into falsely hopping he lives. If they wanted him alive the stargazer would be replaced by a scene showing him reading a story to a little asari girl or stepping into his backyard and wacthing Tali with no helmet gardening or just in a bar having drinks with everyone. They didn't because he doesn't make it out. 

The Destroy ending implies differently.

Just because they don't show a scene of him telling stories to children, that doesn't mean he's dead. All that's proof for is that Bioware wanted people to headcanon what happened after the breath scene.


Shepard is alive, this wasn't even up for debate until Chris Hepler made a trollolol comment (that even the rest of the Bioware table boo'ed).

Shepard is dead. All his cybernetics are fubar'd and he's blind, paralyzed at least below the waist. If we believe synthesis is true and his energy embodies what synthesis is then all his nanites failed and he sufffers cellular decay, organ failure and coma. He has a slow death ahead of him alone and in the dark. If you consider that "alive" so be it. People have questioned his survival before any Hepler guy said anything.

[The Twilight God]

SentinelShepParagon wrote...

According to BioWare’s Tully Ackland, “You may notice that in the ‘Shepard lives’ ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.” http://www.ubergizmo...firmed-bioware/

Shepard does somehow survive this ending according to BioWare.

Look at what he said.

"This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together"

Hope? Why would you need hope since he's alive? This is nothing but false hope to prevent more nerd rage. Shepard is dead. Tully knows it, Weekes knows it, they all know it. They made it that way solely to provide "hope", a vehicle for headcanon. Now you can say screw those guys. There is no proof either way. A miracle could happen. That's what they want. For you to ignore the circumstances, forget the lore and headcanon a miracle while they maintain the Shepard must die "artistic integrity".

Modifié par The Twilight God, 09 août 2012 - 04:26 .

[Funkdrspot]

Reorte wrote...

iakus wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

iakus wrote...
Yes, you hear about these things happening.

We don't hear about it happening for SHepard.  That's the problem. No clarity.  No closure.

so thats what it still boils down to? people are so lazy that they cant use the powers of deduction + occams razor to come to a liekly conclusion? 

After killing EDI, genociding the geth, and building up such an enormous EMS that goes far beyond simply "high EMS Destroy", yes, I frakking want an ME1 climb-out-of the-rubble ending.

Problem?

Of course. Stop whining and do the writers' job for them inside your head! In fact ME3 should've stopped wasting time and cut far more out to save money. You didn't need to see Mordin inside the Shroud tower, singing to himself when it went up. See him walk through the door, thing explode, everything you need in a couple of seconds. And why all those drawn out battle scenes with Sovereign in ME1? What a waste of time when you can clearly work out that the fleet shot at it and it blew up!

Nice straw man. Do you always base your entire argument off of a logical fallacy? 

[Funkdrspot]

The Twilight God wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ Quit ****ing with people.

He lives as long as they wish him to.

Nope. He died.

He died. C'mon Taboo-XX, it's just wishful thinking. I'm surprised someone of your knowledge about theatre would be fooled so easily by the illusion of hope.

Why produce the scene in the first place if Bioware didn't want to imply that Shepard was alive?

Even the Normandy memorial scene implied that Shepard was still alive, or at least not confirmed to be dead yet.

The point is so people don't whine about Shepard dying in all endings. He does, but they trick you into falsely hopping he lives. If they wanted him alive the stargazer would be replaced by a scene showing him reading a story to a little asari girl or stepping into his backyard and wacthing Tali with no helmet gardening or just in a bar having drinks with everyone. They didn't because he doesn't make it out. 

The Destroy ending implies differently.

Just because they don't show a scene of him telling stories to children, that doesn't mean he's dead. All that's proof for is that Bioware wanted people to headcanon what happened after the breath scene.


Shepard is alive, this wasn't even up for debate until Chris Hepler made a trollolol comment (that even the rest of the Bioware table boo'ed).

Shepard is dead. All his cybernetics are fubar'd and he's blind, paralyzed at least below the waist. If we believe synthesis is true and his energy embodies what synthesis is then all his nanites failed and he sufffers cellular decay, organ failure and coma. He has a slow death ahead of him alone and in the dark. If you consider that "alive" so be it. People have questioned his survival before any Hepler guy said anything.

Learn 2 reading/listening comprehension. Remember those tests back in 6th grade where you had to test your comprehension?

The Stargazer, Mass Effect 3's main antagonist says to Shepard: 
"It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed too. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. even you are PARTLY synthetic."

The stargazer is most likely:

a) Warning Shepard will literally die along with all other synthetics

A wizard

c) Warning Shepard that all technology is considered 'synthetic' and that all of it will be wiped out

d) Mentioning Shepard's synthetic parts to appeal to Shepard's common bond with synthetics

[Taboo]

The above post is so full of win it's not even funny.

[Iakus]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Learn 2 reading/listening comprehension. Remember those tests back in 6th grade where you had to test your comprehension?

The Stargazer, Mass Effect 3's main antagonist says to Shepard: 
"It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed too. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. even you are PARTLY synthetic."

The stargazer is most likely:

a) Warning Shepard will literally die along with all other synthetics

A wizard

c) Warning Shepard that all technology is considered 'synthetic' and that all of it will be wiped out

d) Mentioning Shepard's synthetic parts to appeal to Shepard's common bond with synthetics

If by "literally" you mean "likely" and "stargazer" is "Catalyst",  then A is the obvious answer.  Especially since you need to do a very thorough single playeer game to keep that from coming true.

But since we're playing game here how about this one.

You see someone lying on the ground.  This person is badly cut and burned.  His or her body armor appears to have been blasted or even melted off.  This person is also lying under a large number of rocks.  Although this individual is still breathing, there is no one around to render aid.  In fact, this person is currently in a previously unknown area of the Citadel that no one has even heard of.  Finally, this person is a cyborg, who is heavilly implied to have all such implants reduced to scrap recently.

How screwed is this person?

[Mathias]

You know what, even if Shepard dies in that rubble or becomes horribly crippled, i imagine they'd bring him back to full speed. They were able to bring him back to life back when he was in a condition 10 times worse than what he's probably in at the end of ME3. I'm sure they'd spare no expense to make sure the guy that just saved the entire galaxy has a successful recovery.

[RethenX]

I don't know what you guys are talking about but my Shepard lived.

[Funkdrspot]

iakus wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Learn 2 reading/listening comprehension. Remember those tests back in 6th grade where you had to test your comprehension?

The Stargazer, Mass Effect 3's main antagonist says to Shepard: 
"It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed too. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. even you are PARTLY synthetic."

The stargazer is most likely:

a) Warning Shepard will literally die along with all other synthetics

A wizard

c) Warning Shepard that all technology is considered 'synthetic' and that all of it will be wiped out

d) Mentioning Shepard's synthetic parts to appeal to Shepard's common bond with synthetics

If by "literally" you mean "likely" and "stargazer" is "Catalyst",  then A is the obvious answer.  Especially since you need to do a very thorough single playeer game to keep that from coming true.

But since we're playing game here how about this one.

You see someone lying on the ground.  This person is badly cut and burned.  His or her body armor appears to have been blasted or even melted off.  This person is also lying under a large number of rocks.  Although this individual is still breathing, there is no one around to render aid.  In fact, this person is currently in a previously unknown area of the Citadel that no one has even heard of.  Finally, this person is a cyborg, who is heavilly implied to have all such implants reduced to scrap recently.

How screwed is this person?

A is wrong. Go back to 6th grade.

I dunno. Is he any less screwed from this scenario than he is from being melted/pulverized from orbital re-entry? You do realize that actual PEOPLE have survived similar events without advanced polymer armor, medigel or shields, right?!

Either way, you and most everyone else are ASSUMING that the Red EM blast fries ALL circuits. The EM blast kills synthetic AIs. The Reapers, The Geth, EDI. No where does it imply or suggest that it affects regular circuitry or programs. The catalyst was stating that Shepard was partly synthetic to elicit an emotional response, a shared 'bond'. Empathy.

[Jadebaby]

magnetite wrote...

Even if Shepard did survive, you'd have 4 days to go rescue him/her. The human body can go about 4 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. Otherwise you won't last long. If it was all a dream Shepard should be easy to find. However, if the Normandy really crashed on that planet, trying to pinpoint Shepard's location without a GPS woul be kind fo hard. During the Reaper invasion, they probably knocked out all the satellites.

It all depends on your opinion of Mass Effect fields. In ME1 Shepard had to suit up when exit the same tower she is standing at the base of in ME3.

Even if there was a Mass Effect field there to begin with, after the Citadel explodes, there wouldn't be. There just wouldn't.

[Pitznik]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

magnetite wrote...

Even if Shepard did survive, you'd have 4 days to go rescue him/her. The human body can go about 4 days without water, and 3 weeks without food. Otherwise you won't last long. If it was all a dream Shepard should be easy to find. However, if the Normandy really crashed on that planet, trying to pinpoint Shepard's location without a GPS woul be kind fo hard. During the Reaper invasion, they probably knocked out all the satellites.

It all depends on your opinion of Mass Effect fields. In ME1 Shepard had to suit up when exit the same tower she is standing at the base of in ME3.

Even if there was a Mass Effect field there to begin with, after the Citadel explodes, there wouldn't be. There just wouldn't.

It all depends on technical details we know nothing about - how many field generators there are, is it one big field, or plenty of smaller fields. Citadel is very big place with all manner of activity, explosions happen, and one explosion shouldn't completely destroy the whole sector.

Is it possible that Shepard survived? Yes, since he did. How did he survive? Doesn't matter. Speculate if you wish, but proving that "he couldn't survive" is obviously impossible. Like I said before, feel free to disregard both nameplate and breath scenes, and have your Shepard dead, but don't force this interpretation.

[The Twilight God]

Funkdrspot wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard is dead. All his cybernetics are fubar'd and he's blind, paralyzed at least below the waist. If we believe synthesis is true and his energy embodies what synthesis is then all his nanites failed and he sufffers cellular decay, organ failure and coma. He has a slow death ahead of him alone and in the dark. If you consider that "alive" so be it. People have questioned his survival before any Hepler guy said anything.

Learn 2 reading/listening comprehension. Remember those tests back in 6th grade where you had to test your comprehension?

Ah, petty insults. The mark of a true intellectual confident in the strength of his own argument. I can already guess you have a carefully laid out articulate counter argument prepared for me which will no doubt test my wits to their limits.

Funkdrspot wrote...

The Stargazer, Mass Effect 3's main antagonist says to Shepard: 
"It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed too. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. even you are PARTLY synthetic."

The stargazer is most likely:

a) Warning Shepard will literally die along with all other synthetics

A wizard

c) Warning Shepard that all technology is considered 'synthetic' and that all of it will be wiped out

d) Mentioning Shepard's synthetic parts to appeal to Shepard's common bond with synthetics

Gasp! Imagine my surprise when your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything I posted, contain no counter argument whatsoever and makes no coherent sense at all. I'm surprised. Based on you're opening statement I had you pegged as some kind of savant. Or perhpas I'm simply too stupid to "get it". Or you meant to address someone else and it is simply my priviledge to be the recipient of one of your rare mistakes. Oh, you geniuses and your wily ways!

Modifié par The Twilight God, 09 août 2012 - 02:51 .

[MattFini]

RethenX wrote...

I don't know what you guys are talking about but my Shepard lived.

[LilLino]

The cutscene's name is 'Shepard lives', which most likely means he's dead....oh no wait..

Anyway, he just survived a the explosion and was unconscious for a while. Devs mentioned citadel still has life support. Probably after the battle fleets started looking for citadel survivors and found Shepard.

Honestly, during the course of 3 games I survived hundreds of rockets&warps to the face, geth&reaper armies and people can't believe that he could survive an explosion.

[The Twilight God]

BABYRHINO97 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

The only way I could possibly explain it is that the Citadel exploded an hour or two after the Crucible was actually fired. And that gave Shepard time to go down the elevator (if that even somehow works) and get to one of the "wings" that end up for some reason being the only damaged part of the Citadel in the slides.
I still have no idea why they didn't retcon the Citadel exploding in the center. They show it, then in the next slide, only the ends are torn up, wtf.

Actually the Presidium blows up. More specifically the areas were the ward arms connect. The combined visualization of those four explosions may appaer to be one central explosion, but it isn't. The beam that fires from the Citadel only effect synthetics so Shepard's organic parts would be fine in theory. How much of Shepard is synthetic? Good question. His face and eyes are. So he's blind and has no motor control of his face. His spine was repaired with cybernetics so he is paralyzed at least from the waste down. He had a break in the neck and mid torso too but the opening scene only showed spinal repair to the break right above the pelvis. If synthesis is believed and his particular "energy" was needed his cells must have beem loaded with synthetic nanites. So... should he expect cellular decay? Organ failure??? Even if he "survives" he's a crippled vegetable with a slow lonely death to look forward to in a cold dark interior of the Citadel. What a wonderful ending for our hero. Thank you, Bioware.

The destroy ending only eradicates AI and synthetic life. Shepard is neither. The machines keeping him alive are no different than a pacemaker in today's world.

According to synthesis he is an organic-synthetic hybrid or are you stating Synthesis is bs since Shepard's "energy" is nothing special? And a pacemaker is synthetic. Synthetics do not "live" like organics "live". A geth platform is just as synthetic as a pacemaker. The ending is slightly absurd in this respect.

[The Twilight God]

LilLino wrote...

The cutscene's name is 'Shepard lives', which most likely means he's dead....oh no wait..

Anyway, he just survived a the explosion and was unconscious for a while. Devs mentioned citadel still has life support. Probably after the battle fleets started looking for citadel survivors and found Shepard.

Honestly, during the course of 3 games I survived hundreds of rockets&warps to the face, geth&reaper armies and people can't believe that he could survive an explosion.

No, people question rather or not he can survive with all his lazarus parts suddenly defunct.

[shepskisaac]

Shep surviving ME3 is 10 times more realistic than entering into an atmosphere in a suit that's depressurizing.

[Iakus]

Funkdrspot wrote...

iakus wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Learn 2 reading/listening comprehension. Remember those tests back in 6th grade where you had to test your comprehension?

The Stargazer, Mass Effect 3's main antagonist says to Shepard: 
"It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed too. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. even you are PARTLY synthetic."

The stargazer is most likely:

a) Warning Shepard will literally die along with all other synthetics

A wizard

c) Warning Shepard that all technology is considered 'synthetic' and that all of it will be wiped out

d) Mentioning Shepard's synthetic parts to appeal to Shepard's common bond with synthetics

If by "literally" you mean "likely" and "stargazer" is "Catalyst",  then A is the obvious answer.  Especially since you need to do a very thorough single playeer game to keep that from coming true.

But since we're playing game here how about this one.

You see someone lying on the ground.  This person is badly cut and burned.  His or her body armor appears to have been blasted or even melted off.  This person is also lying under a large number of rocks.  Although this individual is still breathing, there is no one around to render aid.  In fact, this person is currently in a previously unknown area of the Citadel that no one has even heard of.  Finally, this person is a cyborg, who is heavilly implied to have all such implants reduced to scrap recently.

How screwed is this person?

A is wrong. Go back to 6th grade.

I dunno. Is he any less screwed from this scenario than he is from being melted/pulverized from orbital re-entry? You do realize that actual PEOPLE have survived similar events without advanced polymer armor, medigel or shields, right?!

Either way, you and most everyone else are ASSUMING that the Red EM blast fries ALL circuits. The EM blast kills synthetic AIs. The Reapers, The Geth, EDI. No where does it imply or suggest that it affects regular circuitry or programs. The catalyst was stating that Shepard was partly synthetic to elicit an emotional response, a shared 'bond'. Empathy.

1st, can the insults

2nd, the Catalyst is mentioning Shepard in the same breath as wiping out all synthetic life.  The veiled threat is there.  "If I die, so do you, along with your friend and allies".

3rd, yes people survive disasterous events like that.  But it's rare.  Otherwise such events wouldn't be noteworthy now, would they?

The problem isn't just that Shepard's circuits get fried, or might get fried, but that his organic bits have been pulverized as well.  Plus the Citadel itself took a beating.  There's no aid in sight.  The scene of Shepard breathing is supposed to elicit hope, but it's a tiny spark compared to the dark circumstances SHepard was currently in

[BABYRHINO97]

The Twilight God wrote...

BABYRHINO97 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

The only way I could possibly explain it is that the Citadel exploded an hour or two after the Crucible was actually fired. And that gave Shepard time to go down the elevator (if that even somehow works) and get to one of the "wings" that end up for some reason being the only damaged part of the Citadel in the slides.
I still have no idea why they didn't retcon the Citadel exploding in the center. They show it, then in the next slide, only the ends are torn up, wtf.

Actually the Presidium blows up. More specifically the areas were the ward arms connect. The combined visualization of those four explosions may appaer to be one central explosion, but it isn't. The beam that fires from the Citadel only effect synthetics so Shepard's organic parts would be fine in theory. How much of Shepard is synthetic? Good question. His face and eyes are. So he's blind and has no motor control of his face. His spine was repaired with cybernetics so he is paralyzed at least from the waste down. He had a break in the neck and mid torso too but the opening scene only showed spinal repair to the break right above the pelvis. If synthesis is believed and his particular "energy" was needed his cells must have beem loaded with synthetic nanites. So... should he expect cellular decay? Organ failure??? Even if he "survives" he's a crippled vegetable with a slow lonely death to look forward to in a cold dark interior of the Citadel. What a wonderful ending for our hero. Thank you, Bioware.

The destroy ending only eradicates AI and synthetic life. Shepard is neither. The machines keeping him alive are no different than a pacemaker in today's world.

According to synthesis he is an organic-synthetic hybrid or are you stating Synthesis is bs since Shepard's "energy" is nothing special? And a pacemaker is synthetic. Synthetics do not "live" like organics "live". A geth platform is just as synthetic as a pacemaker. The ending is slightly absurd in this respect.

Yes, a pacemaker may be synthetic, but that does not make it synthetic life, it is a machine that helps someone live, just like the machines in Shepard's body.

[The Twilight God]

IsaacShep wrote...

Shep surviving ME3 is 10 times more realistic than entering into an atmosphere in a suit that's depressurizing.

That assumes the atmosphere of that world was identical Earth's. Its atmopshere coudl be thinner, less dense and the planet could have less gravity. Given the condition of the Normandy crash site and the Mako i would say that planet was somehwere closer to slowly "crashing"  on the moon.

[The Twilight God]

BABYRHINO97 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

BABYRHINO97 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

The only way I could possibly explain it is that the Citadel exploded an hour or two after the Crucible was actually fired. And that gave Shepard time to go down the elevator (if that even somehow works) and get to one of the "wings" that end up for some reason being the only damaged part of the Citadel in the slides.
I still have no idea why they didn't retcon the Citadel exploding in the center. They show it, then in the next slide, only the ends are torn up, wtf.

Actually the Presidium blows up. More specifically the areas were the ward arms connect. The combined visualization of those four explosions may appaer to be one central explosion, but it isn't. The beam that fires from the Citadel only effect synthetics so Shepard's organic parts would be fine in theory. How much of Shepard is synthetic? Good question. His face and eyes are. So he's blind and has no motor control of his face. His spine was repaired with cybernetics so he is paralyzed at least from the waste down. He had a break in the neck and mid torso too but the opening scene only showed spinal repair to the break right above the pelvis. If synthesis is believed and his particular "energy" was needed his cells must have beem loaded with synthetic nanites. So... should he expect cellular decay? Organ failure??? Even if he "survives" he's a crippled vegetable with a slow lonely death to look forward to in a cold dark interior of the Citadel. What a wonderful ending for our hero. Thank you, Bioware.

The destroy ending only eradicates AI and synthetic life. Shepard is neither. The machines keeping him alive are no different than a pacemaker in today's world.

According to synthesis he is an organic-synthetic hybrid or are you stating Synthesis is bs since Shepard's "energy" is nothing special? And a pacemaker is synthetic. Synthetics do not "live" like organics "live". A geth platform is just as synthetic as a pacemaker. The ending is slightly absurd in this respect.

Yes, a pacemaker may be synthetic, but that does not make it synthetic life, it is a machine that helps someone live, just like the machines in Shepard's body.

Synthetic life is no different than any other program. Electrons running through a medium. Just like huma n nerves and brain patterns for that matter. The Crucible would have to be a glorified EMP to make sense. But low EMS destorys demonstrates that it isn't just an EMP-like explosion.

[BDelacroix]

Maybe he is only MOSTLY dead.

[BABYRHINO97]

The Twilight God wrote...
Synthetic life is no different than any other program. Electrons running through a medium. Just like huma n nerves and brain patterns for that matter. The Crucible would have to be a glorified EMP to make sense. But low EMS destorys demonstrates that it isn't just an EMP-like explosion.

The low EMS destroy only shows what could happen if the Crucible is badly damaged, it doesn't say anything about the high EMS destroy.

Synthetic life is different than just a machine, which is why the Normandy is still up and running, yet EDI and the Geth are dead. Their bodies would still work as platforms for VI's or future AI's, but the unique AI's that brought life to EDI and the Geth have been completely destroyed.