199 réponses à ce sujet

[dysturbed0ne]

KalilKareem wrote...

COLZ7R wrote...

Just dealing with it would be a good attitude for nerffers to take

Deal with what?

Why does everyone in your lobbies with Pirahna's bother you? If you never looked at there loadouts and completed extraction, what difference would their weapons make?

[Jonathan Shepard]

Except, you haven't looked at the size of the nerfs vs. the buffs. Most of the buffs have proved negligible for the weapon's actual performance, while most nerfs have either broken a weapon or power in half.

[Bivo]

COLZ7R wrote...

Just dealing with it would be a good attitude for nerffers to take

Bioware deals with balance changes. Not posters.

You are the one upset about it.

[WandererRTF]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Except, you haven't looked at the size of the nerfs vs. the buffs. Most of the buffs have proved negligible for the weapon's actual performance, while most nerfs have either broken a weapon or power in half.

Read this post again. Let's see some examples... Revenant (+33%), Mattock (+36%) and so on... And while Falcon lost its ridiculous firing rate its damage got boosted by 30%. Next time please at least try to make it look like you would have put an effort to find some support for your claims.

[Poison_Berrie]

COLZ7R wrote...

@poison berrie
how is it hard to avoid? Never mind the ways i listed to avoid them. where are these mythical, all gi with whatever is the goto gun of choice lobbys? I play gold/silver pugs all the time and never, not once have i been in a lobby with everyone using the same gun

I wasn't saying that I was encountering them on everyone all the time (though I've entered a few lobbies where everyone was carrying one either as primary or back-up). 
My point is that it's a lot of work to completely avoid a thing, because it's not just you (one person).

Nor is it really related to "nerfers" not adapting. More than likely they would continue even if it didn't get nerfed and likely would actively kick or avoid people just like you suggested. It would off course create a bitter community in which certain people are angry at being kicked all the time and others have to wait ages to start a pug.

mrcanada wrote...

You call them buffs, I call making them useable.  

They are not mutually exclusive. Making a power/weapon useable i always a buff, but not all buffs are making a weapon/power useable. 

None the less there are others who were okay and buffs made the great (Saber, Hurricane).

[wargamesrawsum]

no more nerfs they buff guns that were proved useless after nerf

[Grunt_Platform]

Tom1029 and a dozen others wrote...

Buffs= +0.2%
Nerf= -15.7% in EVERY STATISTIC!

I'm sorry for your math skills.

This claim that the magnitude of the nerfs is far greater than the buffs, or that somehow the relationship between buffs and nerfs is akin to "potlucks and shootings" is ridiculous on its face.

scoopapa1 wrote...

The only way these "major" nerfs were a big deal is if you never used anything else. If the Krysae nerf ruined the game, what did you do before the Krysae was released? Ditto the Typhoon and impending Piranha nerfs. I don't agree with every aspect of the TC nerf but the duration nerf did very little to builds that were primarily using TC to increase damage output. God forbid rank 4 is actually a difficult choice and characters have to make tradeoffs. 

It may seem tumultuous if you went from playing GI Effect 3 to Krysae Effect 3 to Piranha Effect 3 and "they keep goddamn nerfing the only halfway decent guns!". However, if you just play Mass Effect 3 and recognize that there is a s**tload more to do than abuse the current recently released and overpowered strategy, you might (wishful thinking maybe) see why balance is good for the game and stop acting like the sky is falling when the strategy-which-is-totally-not-overpowered-but-still-the-only-thing-worth-using is made fair.

But nevermind, you guys have awesome names to call us like "nerfers" and "nerfducks".  Clearly you win the argument.

QFT.

I'd list all the things that got SIGNIFICANT buffs, but let me just list a few that I know everybody's used or benefitted from:

• Tech Bursts (buffing ALL tech classes)
• Tech Armor (and other armor powers)
• Shockwave
• Adrenaline Rush
• Frag Grenades
• Saber
• Talon
• Hurricane
• Paladin
• Both drell classes (Adept's felt it more than Vanguard since... Drell Vanguard)

As for the much reviled enemy buffs... Well. Where are they? Geth received their only buffs as a faction way back on March 13th. The Cerberus buffs were more recent, but were not even as significant as what the geth received. The only notable increase to Cerberus was the Atlases firing their guns four times per burst instead of three, which just took some getting used to. And I refuse to believe gold-level players are suffering from executions that badly.
 
As for Platinum: MEH. Everybody knows Platinum as it stands right now is a poorly designed mess that only cares about your sustained DPS. No gun is "nerfed" just for being useless on Platinum. That's a design issue, and one the balance team might need to fix. In general, the problems keeping the game out of balance are fundamental design issues that the balance team will never be able to completely fix. Small board size alone does more to hurt sniper rifles than any nerf in the game.

I'm not enamored with the balance team, and feel they could be doing a better job (though given their resources...), but the constant complaints as if they do nothing but nerfs.. you guys realize you've been complaining about constant nerfs since around March 20th? The number of nerfs has grown since then, but so has the overall power level of the game, and the buffs continue to be more widespread and significant. If the fact that they buffed the PIRANHA* of all guns doesn't show their preference for buffs... yeah.

(* Yes I know they're nerfing it this week, but their first action with it was still a buff)

Modifié par EvanKester, 08 août 2012 - 07:25 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

It's interesting.

I see these claims made all the time "I'm a balancer, not a nerfer! I want crappy things buffed too! Really!" but then... all I see from them are "OMG NERF THIS!" threads. Where are the "OMG BUFF THIS!" threads?

I mean, if they're really balancers, they should be calling for buffs just as loudly as they're screaming for nerfs, right?

[IrishDeath420]

I am all for balance to a certain degree. I think that UR should be better than R, R be better than UC, and UC better than C.

It is not that there are so many nerfs. It is that when something gets nerfed it is done to the extreme.

[rmccowen]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's interesting.

I see these claims made all the time "I'm a balancer, not a nerfer! I want crappy things buffed too! Really!" but then... all I see from them are "OMG NERF THIS!" threads. Where are the "OMG BUFF THIS!" threads?

I mean, if they're really balancers, they should be calling for buffs just as loudly as they're screaming for nerfs, right?

Just as an example, Google "site:social.bioware.com turian soldier".

[Robbbbb]

AbhijitSM wrote...

OP the numbers may mean nothing.
Number of buffs 220 > Number of nerfs 40
But....
Magnitude of nerfs 40 > Magnitude of buffs 220

Seriously whenever bioware has nerfed they seem to render some things totally useless.

this, most of the buffs are very miniscule things like increasing carnage base power by 30 or whatever

[Striker93175]

UKStory135 wrote...

bigkahuna077 wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

AbhijitSM wrote...

OP the numbers may mean nothing.
Number of buffs 220 > Number of nerfs 40
But....
Magnitude of nerfs 40 > Magnitude of buffs 220

Seriously whenever bioware has nerfed they seem to render some things totally useless.

Actually only five things have had nerfs that can be considered of magnitude.

Falcon
Sabotage
Tactical Cloak
Krysea
Typhoon

Also buffs of magnitude
Blade Armor/Barrier/Fortification
Tech Armor (over an extended period)
Almost all grenades
Adrenaline Rush (over an extended period)
Drell Fitness
Tech Burst and Fire Explosions
Shockwave
Combat Drone
Sentry Turret
Several assault rifles (over an extended period)

don't forget the mattock,  it has been buffed multiple times and is a excellent weapon but very few people actually use it, its sad really.

For the Mattock to be as good as people say it is, you have to pull the Trigger at exactly 7.5 times per second.  The Harrier beats the Mattock's theorectical DPS at Level IV.  Of course the Harrier also got a 25% weight increase, which basically limits it to grenade throwers. 

Rapidfire controller = depending on the model of course ... 72 times per sec oooh.  Turn that raptor/maatock/predator/etc into an automatic   Add in program features you can have it unload x times reload and cancel and keep firing all by holding down the button!  ooooh!

Modifié par Striker93175, 08 août 2012 - 07:38 .

[Grunt_Platform]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's interesting.

I see these claims made all the time "I'm a balancer, not a nerfer! I want crappy things buffed too! Really!" but then... all I see from them are "OMG NERF THIS!" threads. Where are the "OMG BUFF THIS!" threads?

I mean, if they're really balancers, they should be calling for buffs just as loudly as they're screaming for nerfs, right?

Several pages deep. "Buff this!" doesn't get as much rage as "Nerf this!" and so attract fewer replies. If you start counting "X is underpowered" threads, or looking at the people actually arguing against some of the proposed nerfs.. you get a more complete picture.

Of course, the fact that "Nerfers" are hardly a homogenous, unified group, and that most "nerfers" are just fairly random players coming through and upset at what they belive is an unfair advantage.... I dunno. I think it's fairly easy to draw a line between those people, and the guys who stick around and participate in more threads.

EDIT: Not going to even touch the players who think the N7 Paladin is underpowered because he doesn't have something like Pull instead of Incinerate.

Modifié par EvanKester, 08 août 2012 - 07:51 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

rmccowen wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's interesting.

I see these claims made all the time "I'm a balancer, not a nerfer! I want crappy things buffed too! Really!" but then... all I see from them are "OMG NERF THIS!" threads. Where are the "OMG BUFF THIS!" threads?

I mean, if they're really balancers, they should be calling for buffs just as loudly as they're screaming for nerfs, right?

Just as an example, Google "site:social.bioware.com turian soldier".

Done.

Nowhere on the first couple pages did I see a call for buff for the Turian Soldier. 

Though I have seen calls for nerfs for the Piranha because Marksman makes the gun accurate. So.. I'm not sure what your point was supposed to be.

[Grunt_Platform]

If Marksman was the only power that made the Piranha OP, I'd say that would be a case for keeping the Piranha as is. Turian Soldier needs all the help he can get.

Fact is, a lot of these "buff this" discussions have moved to groups like Balance ALL the Things. Also, you can count every "turians should have a dodge roll" thread and comment as a thread about buffing the Turian Soldier, since that he needs it more than his Sentinel cousin (and... he's probably the one people have in mind).

[Father_Jerusalem]

EvanKester wrote...

If Marksman was the only power that made the Piranha OP, I'd say that would be a case for keeping the Piranha as is. Turian Soldier needs all the help he can get.

Fact is, a lot of these "buff this" discussions have moved to groups like Balance ALL the Things. Also, you can count every "turians should have a dodge roll" thread and comment as a thread about buffing the Turian Soldier, since that he needs it more than his Sentinel cousin (and... he's probably the one people have in mind).

Yes, Turians need a dodge roll.

Yes, Batarians and Krogans need either stagger immunity or a dodge roll.

Yes, people are basing a lot of the calls for a Piranha nerf solely around what Marksman + Smart Choke can do to the Piranha.

Of those three statements, which is the most prevalent when it comes to threads being created about it?

That's right. The Piranha nerf.

[Poison_Berrie]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It's interesting.

I see these claims made all the time "I'm a balancer, not a nerfer! I want crappy things buffed too! Really!" but then... all I see from them are "OMG NERF THIS!" threads. Where are the "OMG BUFF THIS!" threads?

I mean, if they're really balancers, they should be calling for buffs just as loudly as they're screaming for nerfs, right?

Drowned in the threads the torrent of thread against nerf(er)s. There are a few threads like it per day, Locust gets a lot of love in them, as does the Incisor and the Scimitar and certain powers. They die of because people agree and others would rather just argue.

[rmccowen]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Nowhere on the first couple pages did I see a call for buff for the Turian Soldier. 

Though I have seen calls for nerfs for the Piranha because Marksman makes the gun accurate. So.. I'm not sure what your point was supposed to be.

Sorry, I forgot the other key search term. Try "buff turian soldier".

My point was that there are lots of people proposing buffs to things, all the time. The Turian Soldier is a frustrating case, because he has a handful of very powerful abilities that have essentialy no synergy whatsoever; he should be so good, but often fails to measure up to his potential in actual play. Rokayt and at least one other person like to talk about the Locust, which does genuinely need a buff; personally, I had Fortification as a hobby horse for a while, but that was fixed in exactly the way I wanted. I also think sniper rifles as a group need a buff, Sticky Grenades should be worth taking as something other than a sink for spare points on the HI, Singularity needs to be substantially re-thought, the Destroyer's Missile Launcher needs to be buffed as part of a general re-working of the class, the Eagle needs to be fixed, Submission Net needs something, Sabotage could use a duration tweak, and the Drell and Asari Vanguards need to be made into something other than a punchline. I'm far from alone.

But buff threads don't attract thirty pages of caterwauling and death threats, so they fall off the front page quickly--or they go on in private messages and other groups where the aforementioned BS can be avoided.

[Untonic]

  IF it weren't for the genie-in-the-bottle (BW) to give us these amazing weapons we wouldn't have this thread or any of these problems.
It's jsut the fact that when a new and good gun comes out that some people have before others, they start bashnig it due to sheer jealousy. 

"That gun is sooo overpowered, because I don't have it and I hate playing competitvely, so let's group a bunch of ME3-ETs to nerf the sucker"

We get alot but claim it is unjust for the sake of a few select people who rotten the bunch. I'm fine with teh guns, when I see a "OP" gun I praise it, the guy weilding it will either prevent me from usin a medigel or help get a full extraction.

Being optimistic and logical to the situation, ME3 MP was supposed to be an extra to begin with, now it's a little game of it's own, a cooperating game mode. This isn't PvP, or a K/D ratio celebrity callings, it is a game mode of ME3. So be optimistic, be grateful that you have some people utilizing what they can to save the team, they might go a little too far by stealing some kills but listen--they might save you a Spec-Ops pack fora Gold run, or soem medigels for hazy missions, missiles for Platinum!

 I just don't understand the logic of people, they cry and whine for more and recieve something BETTER than expected and they complain. I do beleive soem of the balances were unneccessary, but most are due to idiotic people throwing out slurs and complaints because they can. 

Change is nice, when we need it and all agree on it.

[Poison_Berrie]

rmccowen is right.
Not a week goes by without a few threads asking for buffs to Turians, Krogans and Batarians, the Locust, Eagle, Incisor or Scimitar, powers like Singularity, Incinerate and Carnage, Cryoblast, Submission Net and recently the Destroyer Missile Launcher. Each of these subjects get raised at least once a week, often multiple times.
But they don't generate the amount of discussion and pages the other threads do and quickly fall of the page. It's a shame I generally like them better.

[Cobra5]

People talk about buffs all the time. Incinerate jumps to mind, the original human classes, turians... But all the whiney nerds have nothing to complain about in those threads so they fall off the front page.

Talk about nerfing down a gun and you'll have some major buttmad going on, since the piranha isn't worth using at all if it doesn't take down Atlases and Banshees in one clip on platinum. So those are the threads we see stay up front.

[AshirahTSparkle]

Jebel Krong wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

My point is accuracy or actually targeting a weak point is not rewarding in ME3 MP. It's far more effective to unload bullets. Sniping requires some skill, even if it's only minute, the current dominating strategies do not. Look at my manifest, obviously I play a lot, I run U/U/Platinum everyday with a different character each time. And from my experiance I can safely say snipers are garbage now.

One of the mods said they were thinking about putting back weak points on bosses with tweaks towards the dmage multipler. Though the thing is, I don't see how that's going to help sniper rifles. With the weak points, sustained fire will just proceed to "sustained fire on weak point", which means they are still going to kill enemies faster than a sniper rifle. I personally think it would be great (albeit more coding prolly), if the weak points on bosses are only exploitable by sniper rifles. So headshotting primes? only a sniper rifle can get extra damage from head shotting primes. Sniper rifles are tools or precision after all, so I don't see why they can't have the innate ability to deal more damage through high powered penetrative shots to weak points compared to sustained fire from other weapons.

at least doing something to promote skillful play/sniping properly should be encouraged by BW. personally i'd make ac cloak damage bonus sniper exclusive too. you might see some decent sniping again - i can't remember the last timei ran into another sniping infiltrator (my favourite and most played class). removing the head-shots on primes was non-sensical other than the explained technical fault, but really that should have been thought of before release.

Yeah, it's sad actually. I haven't seen another sniping infiltrator myself for a loooong time. Admittedly, I've been using the demolisher more than my sniping FQI with duration now. Personally think the bolded part won't work too well, unless sniper rifle's damage got boosted and there's weakpoints on bosses. Or else I'd think that would render Infiltrators into a support role of capping objectives and revives. Or perhaps they could swap the damage % increase between pure damage increase and sniper rifle damage increase. Less pure damage increase and more sniper damage increase.

Modifié par AshirahTSparkle, 08 août 2012 - 11:36 .

[UKStory135]

Pretty much the consensus I get from this thread is the following: "if you don't want the same buffs I want then you are a whiner, but the buffs I want are reasonable."

[Drunkencelt]

iplay222 wrote...

I've posted these statistics in several threads but nobody seems to take notice.

There have been around 220 buffs in this game.

And there have been roughly 40 nerfs.

Not only does that disprove the 'Constant nerfing' claims so many people make on these forums but it also means this:

Some of you also say that there are constant nerf threads 

Some of you tell Bioware to 'Stop listening to the community'

Put those 2 reasons together and think about this, Surely if Bioware had been listening to the community from the beginning (according to your logic), a hell of alot more guns should have been nerfed, because of these 2 reasons that you often give to enforce your own argument.

Well, when put with statistics, they contradict each other.

I understand that a single person who is against nerfing won't nessercerily agree with some of the statements that others who are against nerfing/balancing make, but for the sake of this argument, I'm putting different reasons that are given together.

Your complaining about someone complaining about your complaining. Incenption once again.

There aren't enough decent guns to go around nerfing stuff.

Sorry I don't have the skill/gear to regularly complete gold without boring Farm runs. Which BTW are 99% of what I get on Xbox which is why im switching to PC.

I find silver very fun as well if not slow credits. I just hate wishing to use more than 4-5 guns but they just suck. I don't have the hurricane, scorpion, or talon. Which limits me even further to the standards, super specializied gun/class builds that just cause nerfs, or overcompensating for crappiness.

I'm tired of anti-nerf threads, but im super more tired of nerf threads. I put up with this crap in WoW 24/7 because they refuse to balance pvp seperately, but now I have to put up with it in an entirely PVE game too.

[Bivo]

Untonic wrote...

  IF it weren't for the genie-in-the-bottle (BW) to give us these amazing weapons we wouldn't have this thread or any of these problems.
It's jsut the fact that when a new and good gun comes out that some people have before others, they start bashnig it due to sheer jealousy. 

"That gun is sooo overpowered, because I don't have it and I hate playing competitvely, so let's group a bunch of ME3-ETs to nerf the sucker"

We get alot but claim it is unjust for the sake of a few select people who rotten the bunch. I'm fine with teh guns, when I see a "OP" gun I praise it, the guy weilding it will either prevent me from usin a medigel or help get a full extraction.

Being optimistic and logical to the situation, ME3 MP was supposed to be an extra to begin with, now it's a little game of it's own, a cooperating game mode. This isn't PvP, or a K/D ratio celebrity callings, it is a game mode of ME3. So be optimistic, be grateful that you have some people utilizing what they can to save the team, they might go a little too far by stealing some kills but listen--they might save you a Spec-Ops pack fora Gold run, or soem medigels for hazy missions, missiles for Platinum!

 I just don't understand the logic of people, they cry and whine for more and recieve something BETTER than expected and they complain. I do beleive soem of the balances were unneccessary, but most are due to idiotic people throwing out slurs and complaints because they can. 

Change is nice, when we need it and all agree on it.

One or two weeks after their release, everyone has new guns at X (except for hard casuals, who have to much of a life to come posting here anyway).
Then it is clone wars.

I expect from this game to let me look for interesting and efficient character options, not to leave me the choice between two OP guns and classes, and clearly inferior builds.
The team working on balance is not going to buff countless weapons and classes so they can compete with Piranha, Krysae, Typhoon and Tactical Cloak. Thus OP weapons and powers need to be nerved for balance.

If you wish to faceroll to full extraction, play bronze.