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[The Heretic of Time]

Hannah Montana wrote...


I don't know anyone who supports IT and thinks Bioware is brilliant.
Maybe in the early days when everything was uncertain but now Bioware has shown to be just bad and they did a bad job with the trilogy.

Indoctrination is the headcanon of many of us and we do not believe Bioware to be competent enough to reach our level of thought.

At least you admit the IT is just a headcanon, or in other words: a fanon (fan-written canon, to fill up or replace the actual canon). Maybe you should tell that to all the hardcore IT supporters in the IT thread. They believe their IT is much more than just a simple fanon, or fan-fic.

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

The last time I checked the IT supporters actually think BioWare is brilliant. I haven't seen them insulting BioWare or ME3 at all. They're actually quite calm, well-behaved and friendly people (with the exception of a certain Thane fan who thinks he's cool).

The people who insult BioWare are the people who realize how much of a rush-job ME3 really is.

The people who realize the plot in ME3 sucks, the writing in ME3 is crap and the endings of ME3 are ridiculous, those are the people who call BioWare out on their BS, or as you'd put it: they are the ones who "insult" BioWare.

Yes, of course. Only those who insult BioWare are the ones who see clearly.  

It amazes me that some can't grasp the idea of flawed writing containing relatively intriguing concepts and devices, and that opinions have to be so starkly binary.

[Memnon]

After watching many IT related videos, I thought that it sounded like a cool idea - I thought that it would have been brilliant if it was all a part of Bioware's design. The cynic in me felt that what we got was simply a case of poor writing ... this is why I listen to the little cynic on my shoulder instead of the optimist

[Soultaker08]

estebanus wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

"Believe"? There is nothing there to believe, I'm having a tough enough time with "tolerate"

Poor you. Did the ITers hurt you?

yes they did by trolling any thread for nearly 3 months  ,

well although there are people claiming that IT is even more valid by EC, this has stopped

[The Heretic of Time]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Oh yeah? Let's examine some examples of BW "brilliance" shall we?

- Making the second game in the trilogy about solving nonsensical daddy issues and fighting color coded filler bad guys instead of preparing for war against the Reapers.

-  The death and ressurection of the protaganist within 10 minutes of the story as a cheap excuse to fast forward two years and get him to work with Cerberus. Absolutely no themes of mortality or transhumanism(Shepard became a cyborg) are explored in what's supposed to be a "science fiction" story(more like 1930s pulp schlock).

- How about humans being slurpeed into creating a space terminator because of "genetic diversity"? And what's with the design of it anyway? If it's meant to be the core of a reaper ship then what's with the eyes,beam cannon and arms? Completely nonsensical.

- Basing the whole story of the third around a complete unknown that nobody has a clue of how it works or what it does even right up to the end. Oh and lovely how it shows up right the noses of our heroes right when the reapers are inside the gates.

- Then there's turning a small group of 150 operatives into a galactic superpower that overshadows the main antagonist simply so we can have some human enemies to pew pew at.

Ah, the opinions of a jaded BioWare detractor, who states them as if they're facts.

Thanks for educating us lowly folks once again, Seboist, and turning a blind eye to any and all alternate viewpoints on the matter. 

I would love to hear your alternative viewpoints, so I can thrash those viewpoints into the ground pared with a bunch of ad hominem, but without a proper rebuttal, just like you did here.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 14 août 2012 - 01:48 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

The Indoctrination Theorists have to be considered a creepy cult by now. Surely.

[estebanus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Not really. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many supporters, I reckon. 

What gives you the idea that there are still many IT supporters? When I look in the IT thread, I only see about a dozen people frequently posting in the IT thread, and perhaps a couple of folks who support the IT but don't post in the IT thread that often. That gives you only a hand full of IT supporters. That's not exactly what I'd call "many".

There are many lurkers on the thread. Basically, the people you see posting there are those that have been posting since the mark I thread, when IT was believed by 69% of the fanbase. The variation of posters really means little, to be honest.

[Sebby]

dreamgazer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

The last time I checked the IT supporters actually think BioWare is brilliant. I haven't seen them insulting BioWare or ME3 at all. They're actually quite calm, well-behaved and friendly people (with the exception of a certain Thane fan who thinks he's cool).

The people who insult BioWare are the people who realize how much of a rush-job ME3 really is.

The people who realize the plot in ME3 sucks, the writing in ME3 is crap and the endings of ME3 are ridiculous, those are the people who call BioWare out on their BS, or as you'd put it: they are the ones who "insult" BioWare.

Yes, of course. Only those who insult BioWare are the ones who see clearly.  

It amazes me that some can't grasp the idea of flawed writing containing relatively intriguing concepts and devices, and that opinions have to be so starkly binary.

Like "LOL INDOCTRINATION" as an insta-villain-o-matic that overrides player choice and character/story integrity? ME has never been anything deep or profound. It's a cliche ridden sci-fi* action blockbuster.

* With the exception of 1 the sequels rendered any claim of sci-fi null and void with pulp derp such as Lazarus,Space Terminator and Crucible.

[The Heretic of Time]

dreamgazer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

The last time I checked the IT supporters actually think BioWare is brilliant. I haven't seen them insulting BioWare or ME3 at all. They're actually quite calm, well-behaved and friendly people (with the exception of a certain Thane fan who thinks he's cool).

The people who insult BioWare are the people who realize how much of a rush-job ME3 really is.

The people who realize the plot in ME3 sucks, the writing in ME3 is crap and the endings of ME3 are ridiculous, those are the people who call BioWare out on their BS, or as you'd put it: they are the ones who "insult" BioWare.

Yes, of course. Only those who insult BioWare are the ones who see clearly.  

It amazes me that some can't grasp the idea of flawed writing containing relatively intriguing concepts and devices, and that opinions have to be so starkly binary.

Yeah, All Just  A Dream and a Reset Button really are intriguing concepts and plot devices. Wow, I'm so impressed. BioWare truly does revolutionize writing in video-games! 


And no, I couldn't say that with a straight face. 

[estebanus]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The Indoctrination Theorists have to be considered a creepy cult by now. Surely.

I haven't seen many ITers dance around naked in the moonlght, to be honest. Neither have I seen them sacrificing any goats lately. Besides of one particular person, most of them are pretty calm.

When people interpret something differently than you do, it's not a cult. It just means that they're diverse.

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Oh yeah? Let's examine some examples of BW "brilliance" shall we?

- Making the second game in the trilogy about solving nonsensical daddy issues and fighting color coded filler bad guys instead of preparing for war against the Reapers.

-  The death and ressurection of the protaganist within 10 minutes of the story as a cheap excuse to fast forward two years and get him to work with Cerberus. Absolutely no themes of mortality or transhumanism(Shepard became a cyborg) are explored in what's supposed to be a "science fiction" story(more like 1930s pulp schlock).

- How about humans being slurpeed into creating a space terminator because of "genetic diversity"? And what's with the design of it anyway? If it's meant to be the core of a reaper ship then what's with the eyes,beam cannon and arms? Completely nonsensical.

- Basing the whole story of the third around a complete unknown that nobody has a clue of how it works or what it does even right up to the end. Oh and lovely how it shows up right the noses of our heroes right when the reapers are inside the gates.

- Then there's turning a small group of 150 operatives into a galactic superpower that overshadows the main antagonist simply so we can have some human enemies to pew pew at.

Ah, the opinions of a jaded BioWare detractor, who states them as if they're facts.

Thanks for educating us lowly folks once again, Seboist, and turning a blind eye to any and all alternate viewpoints on the matter. 

I would love to hear your alternative viewpoints, so I can thrash those viewpoints into the ground pared with a bunch of ad hominem, but without a proper rebuttal, just like you did here.

Eh, people who thrash BioWare's writing like yourself and Seboist (who share shocking similar viewpoints, amazingly) are so set in your outlook that it doesn't matter. You're here to "educate" and infuriate with your valuable time, so any and all material offered to you---which is has been offered---will go in one ear and out the other. 

It's like talking to a wall.  And that's from experience.

[Soultaker08]

estebanus wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The Indoctrination Theorists have to be considered a creepy cult by now. Surely.

I haven't seen many ITers dance around naked in the moonlght, to be honest. Neither have I seen them sacrificing any goats lately. Besides of one particular person, most of them are pretty calm.

When people interpret something differently than you do, it's not a cult. It just means that they're diverse.

i have seen one comparing the lights of bars in 2 with the lights in the bar in 3 , as evidence for IT

[dreamgazer]

Seboist wrote...

Like "LOL INDOCTRINATION" as an insta-villain-o-matic that overrides player choice and character/story integrity? ME has never been anything deep or profound. It's a cliche ridden sci-fi* action blockbuster.

* With the exception of 1 the sequels rendered any claim of sci-fi null and void with pulp derp such as Lazarus,Space Terminator and Crucible.

Pulp derp.  That's cute.

You can negatively dress up viewpoints that differ from yours with hyperbole all your want.  It doesn't make them correct.  Never has, never will.

[Sebby]

dreamgazer wrote...

Eh, people who thrash BioWare's writing like yourself and Seboist (who share shocking similar viewpoints, amazingly) are so set in your outlook that it doesn't matter. You're here to "educate" and infuriate with your valuable time, so any and all material offered to you---which is has been offered---will go in one ear and out the other. 

It's like talking to a wall.  And that's from experience.

By all means tell us how killing the protaganist within the first 10 minutes of a story simply as a means to fast forward two years is good science fiction writing and why we should lend any credence to your convoluted "it was all a dream" fanon in the face of that and other nonsensical plot developments.

Modifié par Seboist, 14 août 2012 - 02:01 .

[estebanus]

Soultaker08 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The Indoctrination Theorists have to be considered a creepy cult by now. Surely.

I haven't seen many ITers dance around naked in the moonlght, to be honest. Neither have I seen them sacrificing any goats lately. Besides of one particular person, most of them are pretty calm.

When people interpret something differently than you do, it's not a cult. It just means that they're diverse.

i have seen one comparing the lights of bars in 2 with the lights in the bar in 3 , as evidence for IT

Oh yeah, I remember that guy. Yeah, the general consensus was that it means nothing at all, just like not being able to shoot the keeper. Even though some things tend to be brought up in favour of IT, most of them are debunked by the ITers themselves.

Also, how does that make them cultists?

Modifié par estebanus, 14 août 2012 - 02:03 .

[AxStapleton]

Soultaker08 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The Indoctrination Theorists have to be considered a creepy cult by now. Surely.

I haven't seen many ITers dance around naked in the moonlght, to be honest. Neither have I seen them sacrificing any goats lately. Besides of one particular person, most of them are pretty calm.

When people interpret something differently than you do, it's not a cult. It just means that they're diverse.

i have seen one comparing the lights of bars in 2 with the lights in the bar in 3 , as evidence for IT

Just because there are idiots wherever you look in life doesn't mean it's true of everyone you meet. Nice stereotyping.

[The Heretic of Time]

dreamgazer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Oh yeah? Let's examine some examples of BW "brilliance" shall we?

- Making the second game in the trilogy about solving nonsensical daddy issues and fighting color coded filler bad guys instead of preparing for war against the Reapers.

-  The death and ressurection of the protaganist within 10 minutes of the story as a cheap excuse to fast forward two years and get him to work with Cerberus. Absolutely no themes of mortality or transhumanism(Shepard became a cyborg) are explored in what's supposed to be a "science fiction" story(more like 1930s pulp schlock).

- How about humans being slurpeed into creating a space terminator because of "genetic diversity"? And what's with the design of it anyway? If it's meant to be the core of a reaper ship then what's with the eyes,beam cannon and arms? Completely nonsensical.

- Basing the whole story of the third around a complete unknown that nobody has a clue of how it works or what it does even right up to the end. Oh and lovely how it shows up right the noses of our heroes right when the reapers are inside the gates.

- Then there's turning a small group of 150 operatives into a galactic superpower that overshadows the main antagonist simply so we can have some human enemies to pew pew at.

Ah, the opinions of a jaded BioWare detractor, who states them as if they're facts.

Thanks for educating us lowly folks once again, Seboist, and turning a blind eye to any and all alternate viewpoints on the matter. 

I would love to hear your alternative viewpoints, so I can thrash those viewpoints into the ground pared with a bunch of ad hominem, but without a proper rebuttal, just like you did here.

Eh, people who thrash BioWare's writing like yourself and Seboist (who share shocking similar viewpoints, amazingly) are so set in your outlook that it doesn't matter. You're here to "educate" and infuriate with your valuable time, so any and all material offered to you---which is has been offered---will go in one ear and out the other. 

It's like talking to a wall.  And that's from experience.

Ah, more ad hominem and strawmen, brilliant!

So you don't want to post your alternative view points? That's too bad man. Are you one of those guys who loves to dish it but can't take it? Bah, what a waste of time you are.

Talking to you is like playing chess with a pigeon. And that's from experience.

[Sebby]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Like "LOL INDOCTRINATION" as an insta-villain-o-matic that overrides player choice and character/story integrity? ME has never been anything deep or profound. It's a cliche ridden sci-fi* action blockbuster.

* With the exception of 1 the sequels rendered any claim of sci-fi null and void with pulp derp such as Lazarus,Space Terminator and Crucible.

Pulp derp.  That's cute.

You can negatively dress up viewpoints that differ from yours with hyperbole all your want.  It doesn't make them correct.  Never has, never will.

To quote former BW writer Chris L'Etoile "What I didn't understand as a child was
that science fiction is not about a gun that atomizes someone; it's
about what a human does when they can commit murder and not leave a
corpse."

So, where's the themes of mortality and transhumanism in ME2 after Shepard becomes a revived cyborg? The lack of such themes fits the description of ME2 being "pulp schlock" to a tee.

[Yakko77]

If I was indoctrinated then I wouldn't be able to chose Destroy. Also, the Prothian VI never identifies you as being indoctrinated yet the moment Kai Leng and other Cerberus troops walk into the room it immediately calls them out as being such.

[Soultaker08]

estebanus wrote...

Soultaker08 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The Indoctrination Theorists have to be considered a creepy cult by now. Surely.

I haven't seen many ITers dance around naked in the moonlght, to be honest. Neither have I seen them sacrificing any goats lately. Besides of one particular person, most of them are pretty calm.

When people interpret something differently than you do, it's not a cult. It just means that they're diverse.

i have seen one comparing the lights of bars in 2 with the lights in the bar in 3 , as evidence for IT

Oh yeah, I remember that guy. Yeah, the general consensus was that it means nothing at all, just like not being able to shoot the keeper. Even though some things tend to be brought up in favour of IT, most of them are debunked by the ITers themselves.

Also, how does that make them cultists?

maybe this example doesnt make them cultists, but it feels weird if people start nitpicking on obviously not mattering things

@axstapleton  if i give an example i take the first or the second thing that comes on my mind, thats not stereotyping but a possibility for you to give counterexamples

[ZajoE38]

I had to laugh when I saw what can someone consider a evidence. This "evidence" is based on superstition. And as we all know, or at least should know - superstition lead into complete misinterpretation. OMG people can take a rock in a shape of face as evidence enough to confirm their cause. It is ridiculous. And they say human is intelligent being.

[AxStapleton]

ZajoE38 wrote...

I had to laugh when I saw what can someone consider a evidence. This "evidence" is based on superstition. And as we all know, or at least should know - superstition lead into complete misinterpretation. OMG people can take a rock in a shape of face as evidence enough to confirm their cause. It is ridiculous. And they say human is intelligent being.

Stereotyping FTW!

Speculating. That's all we're doing.

[Dav3VsTh3World]

It's barely even a foreshadowed theory and more of an excuse for fans who didn't like the ending to just nullify that it even happened,

If the IT was true then would mean that the climax of the trilogy was a complete waste of time.

[Ithurael]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

It's barely even a foreshadowed theory and more of an excuse for fans who didn't like the ending to just nullify that it even happened,

If the IT was true then would mean that the climax of the trilogy was a complete waste of time.

+21 Internets!

[ZajoE38]

What is stereotypical about knowing that humans tend to be superstitious? Speculating leads to blown head and misunderstanding. And about the ME3, after EC there is nothing to speculate. The book is closed. I just look forward to Leviathan DLC, I want to know moar about the Reaper history.