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[The Hierophant]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...
Yup, phylacteries are implied to be a type of blood magic

Not just implied. They actually are. Remember Gascard Dupuis took a vial of blood from Alessa and managed to use them as a means of tracking her down -- the same function as Circle phylacteries.

Granted, his method required a spell. But I'm inclined to assume that the Circle phylacteries are blood mixed with lyrium so as to eliminate the whole "You must know this particular spell using this vial of blood to be able to locate them" aspect, given that:

1) Lyrium glows
2) Phylacteries glow in the presence of the Mage they're from

Gascard's method i remembered, but i didn't know how the Chantry was able to achieve the same effect without a
bloodmage being present. So far i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Andraste was a bloodmage who held blood orgies in reverence to the Maker.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 11 août 2012 - 06:27 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Or perhaps it was corruption that led to hypocrisy...

The plot thickens!

I say it is in the reverse, hypocrisy lead to corruption, someone become hypocrite before corrupted

Anyway...as we can see the picture below, actually the First Enchanter who have the whole power on the Circle, as Gregoir mentioned in DA:O "Templar just advice, the First Enchanter have the last word". Here, Irving can give leave to Circle Mage,Wayne, without consulting the Templar. Irving also can go to Redcliff without Templar supervision.



In DA2 we can see clearly it is not applied, there is the hypocrisy...The Chantry and the Templar disregard Orsino position, the Grand Cleric can order a Templar to sent back Orsino to the Circle despite she have no power to do so, Meredith always show up as if she is above the First Enchanter, while actually the First Enchanter who hold the high position in the Circle, Meredith only can advise and watch.

Orsino position always being shown lesser than Meredith as if Meredith is above the mages as the whole. In Act 3, meredith don't allow Orsino to leave the Gallow at all.

Meredith is going too far, she's just power hungry, she use her position as Knight Commander to pursue power in Kirkwall. The only one who become thorn in her way is Hawke, that is why she want to destroy Hawke in the end. There is the hipocrisy, Meredith using Templar vs Mage conflict to pursue her gain.

Yeah. That's corruption. You've provided a perfect example.

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I say it is in the reverse, hypocrisy lead to corruption, someone become hypocrite before corrupted

Anyway...as we can see the picture below, actually the First Enchanter who have the whole power on the Circle, as Gregoir mentioned in DA:O "Templar just advice, the First Enchanter have the last word". Here, Irving can give leave to Circle Mage,Wayne, without consulting the Templar. Irving also can go to Redcliff without Templar supervision.

Greagoir delegated authority to Irving and trusts him, but even the mage protagonist points out that the Circle of Magi will do whatever the Chantry tells them to do, and Alistair doesn't contest this.  Greagoir seems to be the exception to the rule since the developers said the Circle of Ferelden was the most "liberal" of all the Circles of Magi.

[LobselVith8]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Okay, what the h*ll are you talking about? Do I want to know?

English is a second language for Nizaris1. I think comments get lost in translation sometimes.

[LobselVith8]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Alright. I think I got it anyway, though the implications are...well, I think I understand.

I think it concerns the dichotomy between civilian and military targets; the Chantry and the templars, in the case of Anders. Grand Cleric Elthina and the templars in the Kirkwall Chantry were not civilians, as the Chantry rule over mages through their soldiers, and hold tremendous power across Thedas.

[dragonflight288]

EntropicAngel wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it concerns the dichotomy between civilian and military targets; the Chantry and the templars, in the case of Anders. Grand Cleric Elthina and the templars in the Kirkwall Chantry were not civilians, as the Chantry rule over mages through their soldiers, and hold tremendous power across Thedas.

I'm inclined to think there WERE civilians in the Chantry, however. Or nearby. It was midday, was it not?

Closer to midnight actually.

...or was that when the Rite of Annulment took place?

[TEWR]

The Hierophant wrote...

Gascard's method i remembered, but i didn't know how the Chantry was able to achieve the same effect without a
bloodmage being present. So far i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Andraste was a bloodmage who held blood orgies in reverence to the Maker.

As I said, I assume lyrium is involved based on what we know of lyrium and phylacteries. And the Chantry has had blood mages before. Remember Adralla, a Tevinter Mage that studied the academic principles of blood magic and -- as far as we know -- never practiced it outright. However, I'm led to believe she was practicing it with the White Divine's approval, because of what she wanted to accomplish -- although she may have been watched very closely.

As for Andraste being a blood mage, that's what I assume to be so. Not the whole blood orgies thing, but definitely a blood mage. What better way for Andraste to topple the Imperium then with the very weapon that brought them their power?

It also creates a double whammy if she was a blood mage. Not only would the Chantry have to acknowledge that she was a Mage, they'd have to acknowledge that she was a blood mage -- and by extension, acknowledge that blood magic isn't inherently evil.

A triple whammy would occur if she was the OGB of the Archdemon that led the First Blight -- there's debate on whether or not it was truly Dumat, both in-game and out.

[TEWR]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Closer to midnight actually.

...or was that when the Rite of Annulment took place?

No, the bombing took place at midnight, because Anders will state on the Rivalry path "Come midnight, it won't matter" or something to that effect.

I remember this because the one FemHawke I rolled romanced him on the Rivalry path -- but was still pro-mage, which led me to detest Rivalry Anders on anything but a pro-Templar run -- and that stood out.

[The Hierophant]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Gascard's method i remembered, but i didn't know how the Chantry was able to achieve the same effect without a
bloodmage being present. So far i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Andraste was a bloodmage who held blood orgies in reverence to the Maker.

As I said, I assume lyrium is involved based on what we know of lyrium and phylacteries. And the Chantry has had blood mages before. Remember Adralla, a Tevinter Mage that studied the academic principles of blood magic and -- as far as we know -- never practiced it outright. However, I'm led to believe she was practicing it with the White Divine's approval, because of what she wanted to accomplish -- although she may have been watched very closely.

As for Andraste being a blood mage, that's what I assume to be so. Not the whole blood orgies thing, but definitely a blood mage. What better way for Andraste to topple the Imperium then with the very weapon that brought them their power?

It also creates a double whammy if she was a blood mage. Not only would the Chantry have to acknowledge that she was a Mage, they'd have to acknowledge that she was a blood mage -- and by extension, acknowledge that blood magic isn't inherently evil.

A triple whammy would occur if she was the OGB of the Archdemon that led the First Blight -- there's debate on whether or not it was truly Dumat, both in-game and out.

If this turns out to be true  then the Chantry is in for one of the biggest sh*tstorms in Thedosian history.

[dragonflight288]

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
English is a second language for Nizaris1. I think comments get lost in translation sometimes.

Thank you, i got excited actually, because now i understand what it is about

EntropicAngel wrote...
Okay, what the h*ll are you talking about? Do I want to know?

lols, what i mean is...Anders destroying the basis of the problem, that is the Chantry. he destroy not a building, not the people in it, but the whole constitution.

It is not an act of desperation, it is not an act of revenge and it is not terrorism...it is a total brilliant and genius tactical move

By doing that, Anders not only cut off the crap, he demoralized the institution, no one expected a mage or someone will do that because the Chantry have been so proud and so arrogant as if no one can or will challenge them. For the mages, they see that there is no longer need to be under such constitution, the rules, the regulations, everything that the Chantry did are bullcrap.

By destroying the Chantry, that is the turning point in history, the Chantry no longer feel they are superior with all what they believed in.

Mages feel like..."why have we been in there so long?", "why we have allowed ourselves to be treated like that all these time?", "Why we tolerate with them while they never tolerate with us?"

As long as the Chantry existed, the Mages will gain nothing, because it is the Chantry who set the rule, and Mages will always be under the Chantry rule, there is no compromise under that condition

Now, when the Chantry is destroyed, the Mages can turn the table, Mages can say "What do you want now? Want a deal? Want war? What?"

So you're saying that by destroying the Chantry, Anders created a metaphor to other mages saying that they don't have to put up with what they've been putting up with for 900 years, because the Chantry as an institution can be wrong or defied? Is that about right?

[MisterJB]

[Dave of Canada]

You don't know what the word compromise means, you're talking about victory on mage terms. The Circle of Magi is the Chantry's compromise.

Nor is it hypocricy.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 août 2012 - 05:49 .

[Dave of Canada]

Justice is unrelated to compromise, nor do many of us care about any concept of your "justice".

And like I've mentioned, the Circle is the Chantry's compromise. How is that "war"? They're not slaughtering mages around every corner, they're shoving them into schools to learn. Just like societies run by mages do because it's the sensible thing.

Also stop mentioning Islam, Christians, USA or whatever in almost every post of yours, it's getting annoying.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 août 2012 - 06:38 .