275 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

Nizaris1 wrote...

what are you trying to imply here bobobo878?

i am using English all the way in this forum, no matter broken English or not, but can you and your western associates do the same using Malay language in Malay forum?

No

I mean the people who made google translate are really smart.

[Spicen]

Nizaris1 wrote...

We are not all Muslims.

We do not all have the beliefs of Musims.

Why must making it Muslim vs Non Muslim argument?

I just SHARE the tern JUSTICE in Islam point of view, in my culture point of view

It is you, and your people who ever don't want to learn about others, arrogant, ignorant, inconsiderable, intolerable, never compromise!

So i am done here

I loathed with arrogant western...

The templars are not hypocrites. They are the symbol of justice, faith and order. They have to kill the mages if need be. Infact i cant believe that templars can even tolerate mages. Mages are an epidemic a disease which must be eradicated. I say, let the Templars kill mages when they are children. In the real world look at USA they are like templars killing any muslims in their way. This is bcoz muslims are rodents, disease and a black death to us. The mages are like moslems and must be killed. If USA is keeping order by killing muslims why cant the templars kill mages?

[Spicen]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Stop trolling, Spicen. You're not helping the discussion.

Shsssh, i want to see his reaction. Just wait for the explosion.

[Spicen]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Spicen wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Stop trolling, Spicen. You're not helping the discussion.

Shsssh, i want to see his reaction. Just wait for the explosion.

<_<

What??????

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't see the imprisonment of mages as "justice", I see it as protection.

I suppose that's where the dichotomy between the pro-templar and pro-mage side comes into play. I understand the pro-templar side believes that what the Chantry and the templars do is necessary, but not everyone shares that view. I don't think it fulfills the needs of protection when mages will always resist a system that oppresses them under the heel of a religious organization that preaches mages are cursed, and gives templars "dominion over mages by divine right."

Dave of Canada wrote...

Circles are the compromise because they were founded by mages alongside the Chantry.

I respectfully disagree. The Chantry of Andraste, the Order of Templars, and the Circles of Magi were formed by Emperor Drakon I, based on his religious beliefs; he was a member of one of the Cults of Andraste at the time. According to the History of the Circle, mages resisted their lack of rights peacefully during the reign of Divine Ambrosia II, and were isolated in Circle Towers as a consequence (when she contemplated declaring an Exalted March on her own cathedral, where the mages isolated themselves for this protest).

The Chantry and the templars having all the power over mages doesn't make it much of a compromise.

Dave of Canada wrote...

You don't want compromise, you want total freedom and call it compromise.

Some people think the mages deserve to have autonomy from the Chantry and the templars. I certainly do. I don't think giving divine authority over mages to an anti-mage religious organization helps matters.

[Zkyire]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I don't care

And that is why your people are ignorant...

We in the east know about you, you in the west know nothing about us in the east....

You know, near the beginning of this thread I was wondering if this was all a shallow attempt to make a dig at Christianity and the "Church." (which a large portion of Christianity is NOT in fact under)

It sure looks like I was right.

Are you asking for a lock? Because it sure looks like it.

Fully agree. He seems to be letting in little digs at Christianity (and all Westerners/western culture) pretty much constantly.

And what's this thread even about anymore? "Hypocrisy of the Chantry and the Templars" and yet there's a picture of a US Drone firing a missile? The hell?

Modifié par Zkyire, 12 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[LobselVith8]

Zkyire wrote...

And what's this thread even about anymore?

Cultural misunderstandings, apparently. I know Nizaris1 brought up the concept of "justice" earlier, addressing it wasn't a modern concept by mentioning Islam beliefs, but it seems like the discussion then de-evolved with both sides misunderstanding the other. I think the language barrier did little to correct this.

Maybe this is how Orlais and the Dales were in the early days.

[Zkyire]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

And what's this thread even about anymore?

Cultural misunderstandings, apparently. I know Nizaris1 brought up the concept of "justice" earlier, addressing it wasn't a modern concept by mentioning Islam beliefs, but it seems like the discussion then de-evolved with both sides misunderstanding the other. I think the language barrier did little to correct this.

Maybe this is how Orlais and the Dales were in the early days.

Ah, well that's unfortunate then.

As for the thread, all real-world religion aside:

Doesn't the Chant basically say that Magic (and by extension; Mages) exist to serve, and never rule? There's nothing in the Chant about keeping Mages imprisoned, just that they're not allowed into positions of authority. So given that alone, the Chantry and by extension; the Templars, are indeed overstepping their bounds.

I'm borderline on this issue myself. On one hand I don't trust the mages to govern themselves. While there would be many that would approach the situation logically, there'd always be a few who say "I don't care about the risks!" and they'd slip through the net.

On the other hand, the Templars, by virtue of being a religious Order are not balanced, impartial people. They're heavily biased. Obviously they're not all "Kill all Mages!" But there is a general anti-mage belief that seems to undercut a few too many Templars.

I'd support the Templars being governed by, or the Templars themselves becoming a more secular organisation, seperated from the Chantry completely. So they'd approach the situation like "Magic is inherently dangerous. Mages need to be taught control, whether they want it or not, as an untrained mage can kill a lot of people by accident." No hate, no bigotry, just calm, detached logic. I'd also support more reforms like giving family members supervised visits (supervised incase the mage *is* possessed and is trying to get out).

Or, in best-case scenario, expand the Templar Order significantly. Bring magic users in at an early age (or whenever detected). Train them extensively so they know how to wield magic responsibly. Take a vial of their blood (so they can be tracked if they ever turn bad). Then set them free. But with the significantly increased Templar numbers, they'd be able to police them properly. And that's what they'd be. Police, not Prison Wardens.

Modifié par Zkyire, 12 août 2012 - 04:08 .

[brushyourteeth]

MisterJB wrote...

I have to agree with this.

No offense meant to you, Nizaris1 -- the Chantry is hypocritical, but not for most of the reasons that you say it is. You're honestly not using the word correctly.

And again, by using the whole Chantry=Christianity=evilandneedstobedestroyed argument, you're being quite hateful and making yourself look silly. It's one thing to hate the Chantry - it's quite another to say it needs to be destroyed because of its similarities to someone's real-life religion. Which is, let's face it, exactly what you've said over and over again.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 12 août 2012 - 05:34 .

[brushyourteeth]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

It is the basis of JUSTICE IN ISLAM you western people NEVER know about it. It is not modern concept.

Mges = sick people now? i thought you are intelligent people


Allah

Aaaaand, there's your problem.

We are not all Muslims.

We do not all have the beliefs of Musims.

Even I, a Christian in a western-centralized world, do not assume all have the beliefs that I do, and more importantly:

I don't use those beliefs as facts.

I may believe them with every fiber of my body. I may be utterly certain they are right. But that doesn't mean other people feel the same, and thus it is inapplicable to use place of logic in a discussion.

I just really need to point out how intelligent and mature this makes you. So thanks and good job. 

[dragonflight288]

Nizaris1 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Cultural misunderstandings, apparently. I know Nizaris1 brought up the concept of "justice" earlier, addressing it wasn't a modern concept by mentioning Islam beliefs, but it seems like the discussion then de-evolved with both sides misunderstanding the other. I think the language barrier did little to correct this.

Maybe this is how Orlais and the Dales were in the early days.

My people call it "like chicken and duck talking to each other"

I can put any other culture opinion about what is "Justice"...i can say, In Buddha Justice is...in Hindu Justice is...In Jewish Justice in...in Europe Justice is...unfortunately i don't know about others, because I am a Muslim, "Justice" for me is what i being taught about it and applied in my culture, so i mention "In Islam, Justice is to put the thing where it should be"...why so sensitive? because the word "Islam" there?

Then they goes into Muslims vs Non Muslims and sentiment bullcrap, is this how the western people handle a forum a discussion? You guys only accept whatever from you guys culture and refuse to listen to others?

I study western cultures and history, i don't claim i know all, i am willing to learn...i can talk or discuss about Catholic, Protestant, Knight Templar, Crusade, Renaissance, Jesuit, Illuminati, Freemason, CIA, 911...Dunkin Donut, Haggis, Bag Pipe, Battle of Bannock burn (do i spell it right?), ...Red Indian, kentucky fried chicken...Justin Beiber, Metallica, Nirvana and so on...but you guys? "We are not Muslims, don't impose your religion here!", "Stop posting about Islam, it is annoying!", "We don't damn care about your Islam!"

Is this how western people look like? do you guys know anything about the east?

You guys are ignorant as well as arrogant!

No wonder Anders blow up the Chantry!

Nizaris, I have nothing but respect for you and your religion. I know several muslims at college. I even attend classes with one who's a foreign exchange student from Yemen. We sometimes go bowling together. I don't know everything about your religion, but I have discussed Muhammed and the pilgrimage to holy sites with muslims. It sounds intriguing, but isn't my personal religion (Mormon, actually.)

But I have to ask, what does Westerneres not understanding Islam and its religion have to do with Anders blowing up the Chantry in a fictional universe?

Modifié par dragonflight288, 12 août 2012 - 07:52 .

[Insaner Robot]

Nizaris1 wrote...
Haggis, Bag Pipe, Battle of Bannock burn (do i spell it right?),
You guys are ignorant as well as arrogant!

You understand haggis? I'm not sure I even understand haggis, and I eat it reasonably often (particularly on burn's night)
It's Bannockburn no spaces.

No wonder Anders blow up the Chantry!

But what on earth does this have to do with attitudes negative or positive of real people?

[LobselVith8]

Nizaris1 wrote...

My people call it "like chicken and duck talking to each other"

I can put any other culture opinion about what is "Justice"...i can say, In Buddha Justice is...in Hindu Justice is...In Jewish Justice in...in Europe Justice is...unfortunately i don't know about others, because I am a Muslim, "Justice" for me is what i being taught about it and applied in my culture, so i mention "In Islam, Justice is to put the thing where it should be"...why so sensitive? because the word "Islam" there?

I think you and the others simply came to the wrong conclusions about what all of you were saying to the other. The chicken and duck analogy works as an explanation for the confusion, I think.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Then they goes into Muslims vs Non Muslims and sentiment bullcrap, is this how the western people handle a forum a discussion? You guys only accept whatever from you guys culture and refuse to listen to others?

I study western cultures and history, i don't claim i know all, i am willing to learn...i can talk or discuss about Catholic, Protestant, Knight Templar, Crusade, Renaissance, Jesuit, Illuminati, Freemason, CIA, 911...Dunkin Donut, Haggis, Bag Pipe, Battle of Bannock burn (do i spell it right?), ...Red Indian, kentucky fried chicken...Justin Beiber, Metallica, Nirvana and so on...but you guys? "We are not Muslims, don't impose your religion here!", "Stop posting about Islam, it is annoying!", "We don't damn care about your Islam!"

Is this how western people look like? do you guys know anything about the east?

You guys are ignorant as well as arrogant!

No wonder Anders blow up the Chantry!

The rules for the forums prohibit real life religious discussion, that's all. I think it's simply a misunderstanding, Nizaris. I don't think anyone intended to offend you or vice versa, and I appreciate the difficulty you go through to converse with us as this is a second language for you. I knew a wonderful and bright girl from Turkey who was Muslim, and she shared her views with me. I don't think there's anything wrong with your religion, and I don't think anyone else in this thread does, either.

[LolaLei]

Nizaris1: No one is knocking or insulting your religion (and if they are then they're immature, narrow minded individuals that need to grow up and educate themselves), BUT at the same time it is offensive of you to insult other people's religious beliefs too, i'm not accusing you of doing it on purpose, but you have upset and offended a few people in here with your comments. We're all entitled to believe whatever we want, that's what makes this world (and this forum) so diverse, it's also another reason why the rules of the forum state that we aren't allowed to get into religious topics etc.

I understand the need for you to defend your opinions and I love a good debate as much as the next person, but tarnishing us all as ignorant and arrogant, regarding religion/mages/Templars/whatever is uncalled for. And before you jump to any conclusions, I'm not religious, I'm an in-game Mage supporter and some of my best friends are Muslim lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[Ausstig]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote..
And this is why nobody can take you seriously.

I don't care

And that is why your people are ignorant...

We in the east know about you, you in the west know nothing about us in the east....



At least i know to speak and write in English...i doubt you can even spell a single word in my language....

Of course you can speak English. Your in a commonwealth commonwealth country, until 1957 England ruled your nation. 

And English is the internation language. Most people here might not be able to Speak Maylaysian, but I bet you can't speak German, Sewdish, Italian or Portugese. Why? Becuase are not the Languages of big important countries like English and Mandarin are now and French used to be. 

Templars are designed to protcet people, mostly from Mages but they can and do help out when needed. 

Man this thread needs to lighten up 

thats1evildude wrote...

The Chantry is all damn hippo-crites!

Any way the Mage-Templar War will be like the Thrity Years War. 

LOOK IT UP (that goes to EVERYONE since no one seems to know about it, even me until like a month ago)

Here is the wikipedia page


http://en.wikipedia....irty_Years'_War




 

Modifié par Ausstig, 13 août 2012 - 12:45 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Can we lock this thread?

It's obvious that this Nizaris is spouting racist crap and digging herself into a hole and replies are just fueling the flames and making things more apparent. It's hurtful to see such things here... but why am I surprised?

edit: People are actually defending/being nice/diplomatic to her? Are you joking me? 



THANKS BSN FORUMITES FOR REMINDING ME WHY I DON'T COME ON HERE AS MUCH ANYMORE.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 13 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[Xilizhra]

edit: People are actually defending/being nice/diplomatic to her? Are you joking me?

Since when is niceness a crime? In any case, I don't think I see any racism, just religious irritation. Which I won't take part in because I'm not religious.

[Dave of Canada]

What? She was obviously because racist, did you even bother to read the last page? Her whole tirades against western society, hatred of americans and such tends to add up after she's been doing it for months now.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 août 2012 - 01:42 .