170 réponses à ce sujet

[Mozts]

Booshnickins wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Booshnickins wrote...

I would like to see an actual post from a Developer that says that it's working exactly as intended.

There is a variable in the Coalesced file that controls the minimum cooldown of Tactical Cloak. 

If they have a variable for it, it's safe to consider it not a bug when it happens.

That's not a quote from a Developer now is it? Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says it's working as they had originally intended, and I'll let it go. Until then, I will view it as a bug.

Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says bullets are working.

Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says ammo boxes are working.

Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says reloading is working 

Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says multiplayer is working  

Until then, its all bug.

Modifié par Mozts, 08 août 2012 - 04:22 .

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

Booshnickins wrote...

It's one of the reasons they're so insanely popular. It's not something that can be fixed via the cloud/hot fixes they do every week either. It would need to be a part of an actual patch. It's clearly not meant to be that way. However I doubt it would get fixed due to the amount of emotional, suicidal children posting about how their class was ruined.

 I dunno about emotional and suicidal, though I'm surprised that in every game there are people like you who enjoy when classes/class weapon combos are knocked to near unplayability. Sniper infiltrators anyone?

[Cyonan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

They really aren't just using 10% of their Cloak, since Cloak can be used in different ways. They're using Cloak for DPS vs. Cloak for pure Invisibility. If the invisibility was the only benefit from using cloak, then the cooldown based on time spent in cloak would make more sense.

Well, the damage Infiltrators are punished much quicker for spending time in cloak. Given that my Claymore gives TC a cooldown of about 6 seconds, you're safe for 2.6 seconds, then your cooldown ramps up to 2x as much in the next 2.6 seconds.

With duration you have 5.6 seconds, then you cooldown ramps up to 2x as much in the next 5.6 seconds. My duration Infiltrator can actually stay in cloak with a 3 second cooldown for longer than my damage Infiltrator can stay in cloak at all.

Of course if you're running heavier than that you have less time before the cooldown starts ramping up, but most Infiltrators don't go heavier than a Claymore.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Oh okay, I didn't realize that was the case.  So you're saying that cooldown is based on time in Cloak relative to the total available cloak time.  But does this really matter for Infiltrators who only cloak for the split-second before firing?

If you are really quick, you might be able to keep the 3 seconds, but with the way duration now works that window is small without duration and it will increase quickly. 
It's actually a reasonable solution to what was in my opinion one of the most glaring imbalance to TC.

If you got a full cooldown for cloaking base cooldown would have to drop quite a bit to compensate, which in itself isn't that bad a solution either.

Does the cooldown begin upon decloak, or does it begin after the damage bonus ends?  If it's the first, this is a problem, because the cooldown is happening simultanously with the effect of the power.  Plus, the ability to shoot off a separate power without affecting the cooldown is still an issue, right?

[rmccowen]

Booshnickins wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

There is a variable in the Coalesced file that controls the minimum cooldown of Tactical Cloak. 

If they have a variable for it, it's safe to consider it not a bug when it happens.

That's not a quote from a Developer now is it? Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says it's working as they had originally intended, and I'll let it go. Until then, I will view it as a bug.

There's a lot of foolishness going around on the forum over the past two days, but you're the silliest person I've seen in at least half an hour.

BW had to go out of their way to make Cloak work that way--so much so that they built in a way to tune it. It's like saying that Incinerate's extra damage against armor is a bug, or that having an area of effect for tech bursts is a bug.

[robarcool]

Increasing cooldown of TC will be unfair to players who get total 3s cooldowns by equipping only one weapon. I equip Widow X and get a 3.0xxx seconds cooldown after adding the cooldown bonus. So why increase the base cooldown? Also, as Posion Berrie says, the window for getting that 3s cooldown (by breaking cloak early) is very small now. So if you are shooting a fast moving target, it takes some time to adjust and by the time you shoot, the 1/3cloak period is already over and you get full cooldown.

Modifié par robarcool, 08 août 2012 - 04:27 .

[rmccowen]

[quote]CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Does the cooldown begin upon decloak, or does it begin after the damage bonus ends?  If it's the first, this is a problem, because the cooldown is happening simultanously with the effect of the power.[/quote]I don't have any direct proof, but a 2.5s lag before cooldown started would be very noticeable.[/quote]

[quote]Plus, the ability to shoot off a separate power without affecting the cooldown is still an issue, right?[/quote]Do you mean the Rank 6 "Bonus Power" evolution, or the fact that the Cloak cooldown replaces the cooldown of whatever power you use to break it?

[LadyAlekto]

They stated more then once that cloak is supposed to have a variable cooldown....

...boi people wanting to ruin a great idea of bioware and crying useless for nothing ****** me more off then these ridicoulus bad ea server

[CmnDwnWrkn]

[quote]rmccowen wrote...

[quote]CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Does the cooldown begin upon decloak, or does it begin after the damage bonus ends?  If it's the first, this is a problem, because the cooldown is happening simultanously with the effect of the power.[/quote]I don't have any direct proof, but a 2.5s lag before cooldown started would be very noticeable.[/quote]

[quote]Plus, the ability to shoot off a separate power without affecting the cooldown is still an issue, right?[/quote]Do you mean the Rank 6 "Bonus Power" evolution, or the fact that the Cloak cooldown replaces the cooldown of whatever power you use to break it?
[/quote]

This.

[Booshnickins]

ThelLastTruePatriot wrote...

Booshnickins wrote...

It's one of the reasons they're so insanely popular. It's not something that can be fixed via the cloud/hot fixes they do every week either. It would need to be a part of an actual patch. It's clearly not meant to be that way. However I doubt it would get fixed due to the amount of emotional, suicidal children posting about how their class was ruined.

 I dunno about emotional and suicidal, though I'm surprised that in every game there are people like you who enjoy when classes/class weapon combos are knocked to near unplayability. Sniper infiltrators anyone?

When have I ever called for mass nerfing? If you're trying to lump me in with the so-called "nerfducks", you're completely wrong. I've called BioWares poor attempts at "balancing" nothing more than trial and error tests. That's essentially all they're doing. 

However in the case of the Cool Down for Tactical Cloak, it clearly seems like it's bugged and shouldn't be working that way. They can bipass any large Cool Down for their powers as long as they use it while in cloaked. So why even display the Cool Down penalty/bonus for weapon weight to begin with if it's going to be a flat rate no matter what they carry? Why give Tactical Cloak an actual Cool Down evolution if it has no value whatsoever? I seriously don't think that it's working as it was originally intended to.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

They stated more then once that cloak is supposed to have a variable cooldown....

...boi people wanting to ruin a great idea of bioware and crying useless for nothing ****** me more off then these ridicoulus bad ea server

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure very well implemented.  The problem is, you get the same damage bonus and the ability to use a separate power regardless of duration.

If the damage bonus was also variable and directly based on time spent in cloak, a variable cooldown would be more reasonable.

[LadyAlekto]

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 08 août 2012 - 04:36 .

[Trae ThaThruth]

@ Boom

That 3 sec rule is how the Devs made it infact its not the only skill with this rule.

Flamer on Vorcha works in the same matter longer its used longer the cooldown use it in short burst and the cooldown is super short

[Cyonan]

Booshnickins wrote...

That's not a quote from a Developer now is it? Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says it's working as they had originally intended, and I'll let it go. Until then, I will view it as a bug.

You can mod the variable and test it in single-player. It changes the cooldown.

A variable that claims to control the minimum cooldown that when changed changes the minimum cooldown is not a bug.

If you want to refuse to admit you were wrong and consider it a bug anyway, you have fun with that.

[rmccowen]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

the fact that the Cloak cooldown replaces the cooldown of whatever power you use to break it?

Again, weird--but not particularly consequential except in corner cases. Sabotage is the only power any Infiltrator has with a longer base cooldown than Cloak, so for the majority of Infiltrators you're gaining a couple of seconds at most, and possibly nothing at all. As an example, my Valiant SI shaves less than a quarter of a second off his Energy Drain.

The really problematic case is, again, the BW/Claymore SI who hangs out at -200% cooldown and still gets a Proximity Mine or Energy Drain every 3s. But, again, that's only as long as he doesn't need more than a second or two of cloak time, because otherwise he's going to be waiting for several seconds before he can do anything.

[AshirahTSparkle]

Booshnickins wrote...

ThelLastTruePatriot wrote...

Booshnickins wrote...

It's one of the reasons they're so insanely popular. It's not something that can be fixed via the cloud/hot fixes they do every week either. It would need to be a part of an actual patch. It's clearly not meant to be that way. However I doubt it would get fixed due to the amount of emotional, suicidal children posting about how their class was ruined.

 I dunno about emotional and suicidal, though I'm surprised that in every game there are people like you who enjoy when classes/class weapon combos are knocked to near unplayability. Sniper infiltrators anyone?

When have I ever called for mass nerfing? If you're trying to lump me in with the so-called "nerfducks", you're completely wrong. I've called BioWares poor attempts at "balancing" nothing more than trial and error tests. That's essentially all they're doing. 

However in the case of the Cool Down for Tactical Cloak, it clearly seems like it's bugged and shouldn't be working that way. They can bipass any large Cool Down for their powers as long as they use it while in cloaked. So why even display the Cool Down penalty/bonus for weapon weight to begin with if it's going to be a flat rate no matter what they carry? Why give Tactical Cloak an actual Cool Down evolution if it has no value whatsoever? I seriously don't think that it's working as it was originally intended to.

Because everyone carries heavy weapons and shoots right after cloaking? Yeah right. Not everyone shoots right after cloaking to attain that 3 sec cooldown. Many of us don't. I have a **** load of cooldown when I cap objectives and it's based on those variables you speak of (cooldown evolution etc).

Problem?

[Booshnickins]

Cyonan wrote...

Booshnickins wrote...

That's not a quote from a Developer now is it? Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says it's working as they had originally intended, and I'll let it go. Until then, I will view it as a bug.

You can mod the variable and test it in single-player. It changes the cooldown.

A variable that claims to control the minimum cooldown that when changed changes the minimum cooldown is not a bug.

If you want to refuse to admit you were wrong and consider it a bug anyway, you have fun with that.

All I'm asking for is proof from a developer. Not you or any other random forum member. As I already said, if it is working 100% correctly, then I'll let it go. Some of you of you seem so sure that's it working perfectly, yet you can't show me one thing where a developer clearly backs up your statements. That's all I want to see. A developer's statements that backs up the claims that it's working as intended. With something as touchy as this subject is, you'd think there'd be something from a developer about it. 

[Poison_Berrie]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Does the cooldown begin upon decloak, or does it begin after the damage bonus ends?  If it's the first, this is a problem, because the cooldown is happening simultanously with the effect of the power.  Plus, the ability to shoot off a separate power without affecting the cooldown is still an issue, right?

It begins once cloak actually breaks (you decloak), if I remember correctly. After that you still have some bonus damage time left. 
It is indeed a rather odd situation. But to change it now would probably require a complete reworking of the power.
As rmccowen said, most powers only gain a small boost, while the ones that would see a large boost suffer when their rythm is slightly off. So overall it seems to be somewhat better.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 08 août 2012 - 04:49 .

[.458]

It's actually beyond reasonable, as anything the infiltrator does pretty much KILLS the cloak. Someone might be able to use the one power thing, but that actually sucks, and if you have a 6 second cloak, not only can you not cloak very long, you can't do anything other than hide or move (which causes noise they pick up and shoot at...the very act of going into TC causes noise they pick up on if they are close), doing anything else or not doing anything destroys cloak. 3 seconds? Sure...compare to adrenaline rush or marksman, probably they need more.

Modifié par .458, 08 août 2012 - 04:42 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

[AshirahTSparkle]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

To kill a single mook. While the "most other characters" could pull off tech bursts and biotic bursts to wipe out a whole bunch of enemies in the time the infil takes to kill 2 mooks. And you are really only talking about TC working with proxmity mines. Try playing the other infiltrators that don't have a proximity mine.


Yeah, it's too OP for a class that's supposed to deal lots of damage to a single target to... well... do a lot of damage to a single target, apparently.

Modifié par AshirahTSparkle, 08 août 2012 - 04:53 .

[LULZferBAKON]

Considering that Vanguards are restricted by weight, even though their half combat. And they get a measly 15% weapon bonus for 3 seconds if they spec into the level 5 evolution, yeah its kinda unreasonable.

[LadyAlekto]

Cd begins after 1.5 seconds of a damage window....

I do use cloak in all its ways, i play infiltrators since me1 long before cloak and love the addition since m2

I do equal with the soldiers as with any infiltrator, free shields on hsol or one "youre ****ing dead and shred apart" with tsol....

I know many who fail as inilftrators and use their cloak for only the ONE POINT FIVE* seconds damage window which usually is not enough for most weapons to boost more then 1 or 2 shots

I also know the power of a well played infiltrator, same goes to kroguards, furys, justicars, drells

Infiltrators got a nerf that hit especially the damage crowd hard

SO what the **** is your damned problem with infiltrators? that we can fire a power under cloak? well how about considering that this one power at most times a debilatating ability that deals little damage by itself and has an animation that takes place, during the very brief and short damage window allowing at most guns to utilize said window for less then a split second?

No i seem to be unable to grasp the infiltrators power, must be the same reason i see more and more reasons why einstein left that quote about the infinity of space

[Cyonan]

Booshnickins wrote...

All I'm asking for is proof from a developer. Not you or any other random forum member. As I already said, if it is working 100% correctly, then I'll let it go. Some of you of you seem so sure that's it working perfectly, yet you can't show me one thing where a developer clearly backs up your statements. That's all I want to see. A developer's statements that backs up the claims that it's working as intended. With something as touchy as this subject is, you'd think there'd be something from a developer about it.

You're just being stubborn about it. Do you really need Bioware to confirm everything for you?

They've never specifically stated a lot of hidden variables in the game, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or that their functions are bugs. Until yesterday, we didn't even have the hidden damage modifiers that exist for a good number of guns and abilities, but we knew they were there. Nobody was considering it a bug that Overload did 300% damage to shields/barriers.

Dataminers figure it out by changing things and playing around in single-player to see what they change. If Bioware has set up for a variable, then it's not a bug when it controls the thing that it was supposed to. I can give you my personal guarantee of this as a developer myself(just not a Bioware one) that has spent a lot of time with the Coalesced.

[dumael]

Probably one of the many reasons why TC was brought in line with other powers/nerfed. Previous to that nerf, I had characters running with small negative cooldown bonus and didn't have to worry about cooldowns all that much. Now my damage-specced infiltrators are better off running with lighter weaponry.

With the current base duration, you really have to cloak->fire quickly to hit the minimum C/D while duration specced infiltrators have more lee-way but don't get such a large damage bonus.

It's mostly self correcting now as you can run with whatever weapons you want for damage spec, but if you don't immediately fire after cloaking -or- forget to use powers from cloak, your C/Ds can be longer than eternity.