170 réponses à ce sujet

[AshirahTSparkle]

dumael wrote...

Probably one of the many reasons why TC was brought in line with other powers/nerfed. Previous to that nerf, I had characters running with small negative cooldown bonus and didn't have to worry about cooldowns all that much. Now my damage-specced infiltrators are better off running with lighter weaponry.

With the current base duration, you really have to cloak->fire quickly to hit the minimum C/D while duration specced infiltrators have more lee-way but don't get such a large damage bonus.

It's mostly self correcting now as you can run with whatever weapons you want for damage spec, but if you don't immediately fire after cloaking -or- forget to use powers from cloak, your C/Ds can be longer than eternity.

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

[Variasaber]

With the way Tac Cloak is currently, I say it's fair, yeah.

[Booshnickins]

Cyonan wrote...

Booshnickins wrote...

All I'm asking for is proof from a developer. Not you or any other random forum member. As I already said, if it is working 100% correctly, then I'll let it go. Some of you of you seem so sure that's it working perfectly, yet you can't show me one thing where a developer clearly backs up your statements. That's all I want to see. A developer's statements that backs up the claims that it's working as intended. With something as touchy as this subject is, you'd think there'd be something from a developer about it.

You're just being stubborn about it. Do you really need Bioware to confirm everything for you?

They've never specifically stated a lot of hidden variables in the game, but that doesn't mean they don't exist or that their functions are bugs. Until yesterday, we didn't even have the hidden damage modifiers that exist for a good number of guns and abilities, but we knew they were there. Nobody was considering it a bug that Overload did 300% damage to shields/barriers.

Dataminers figure it out by changing things and playing around in single-player to see what they change. If Bioware has set up for a variable, then it's not a bug when it controls the thing that it was supposed to. I can give you my personal guarantee of this as a developer myself(just not a Bioware one) that has spent a lot of time with the Coalesced.

Actually some of those multipliers were already on the Wiki prior to that list coming out.

I don't see how I'm being stubborn and you and the others who support your view aren't? All I'm asking is for proof that your claim is 100% correct from a developer. Yet nobody can seem to procure that. I've done two things, gave my opinion on how it appears to be working to me, as you can see from others I'm not the only one who thinks that way, and that I'd like proof from a developer that says it's working the way it should.

[Booshnickins]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

dumael wrote...

Probably one of the many reasons why TC was brought in line with other powers/nerfed. Previous to that nerf, I had characters running with small negative cooldown bonus and didn't have to worry about cooldowns all that much. Now my damage-specced infiltrators are better off running with lighter weaponry.

With the current base duration, you really have to cloak->fire quickly to hit the minimum C/D while duration specced infiltrators have more lee-way but don't get such a large damage bonus.

It's mostly self correcting now as you can run with whatever weapons you want for damage spec, but if you don't immediately fire after cloaking -or- forget to use powers from cloak, your C/Ds can be longer than eternity.

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

Not once has anyone said it should be nerfed in this thread.

Modifié par Booshnickins, 08 août 2012 - 05:07 .

[Anders028]

 Well Bioware has had a great track record of getting nerfs right the first time....oh wait.  Not that I have any problem with the nerfs but pointing out what happens mostly.

Modifié par Anders028, 08 août 2012 - 05:08 .

[Fortack]

You have to accept the fact that:

"All classes are equal, but some are more equal than others." - G.I.'s Geth Farm

[Shia Luck]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I used to think this was correct.

Equip a Javelin and claymore. Cloak and fire immediately then let me know about your CD.

An extreme example of the two heaviest guns in the game doesn't say anything. Your CD must be +150%+ with that loadout. That will mess up even an infiltrator. The OP's statement about lower than normal CDs holds in the vast majority of cases. Just because it's the same rule does not mean it is logical to reach the same consequence in every situation.

Booshnickins wrote...

It's one of the reasons they're so
insanely popular. It's not something that can be fixed via the cloud/hot
fixes they do every week either. It would need to be a part of an
actual patch. It's clearly not meant to be that way.
However I doubt it would get fixed due to the amount of emotional,
suicidal children posting about how their class was ruined.

Why is it clearly not meant to be that way? No developer has ever said it's a bug. It is clearly working as intended. If it were a bug there wouldn't be a 3 second minimum programmed in.

Cyonan wrote...

If they were going to remove the minimum
cooldown on Cloak, they'd need to reduce the base cooldown on it so the change would have no effect on how they play.
Infiltrators are still half combat based and they rely very heavily on
their guns for damage. If you take that away, they're just less as effective as Soldiers that   except they also can go invisible for 5 seconds.

Fixed that for you

Ultimate_Kardas wrote...

So? What about a destroyer? He has no need for a cooldown either.
He gets to carry any weapons he wants. And if you don't worry about
putting down the pylon quickly, the demolisher is the same.

The fact is, there's a couple of classes that have no need for a cooldown. Deal with it.

This. (Tho Kro Sentinal more than demolisher imho. A low CD can be much more helpful on her but certainly you can do a hvy weapon build.)

Not every class should play the same. Remember.... ME3 MP is not a
competiion needing exact parity between classes. Variety is nice.

Have fun

[Cyonan]

Booshnickins wrote...

Actually some of those multipliers were already on the Wiki prior to that list coming out.

I don't see how I'm being stubborn and you and the others who support your view aren't? All I'm asking is for proof that your claim is 100% correct from a developer. Yet nobody can seem to procure that. I've done two things, gave my opinion on how it appears to be working to me, as you can see from others I'm not the only one who thinks that way, and that I'd like proof from a developer that says it's working the way it should.

So if it's on the Wiki then it's not a bug?

Good to know, guess what it mentions about Tactical Cloak =P

You're being stubborn because you're being handed proof and you're just saying "Nope, not going to believe it until Bioware says it's so".

There's a lot of hidden variables they haven't told us about, such as Biotic Charge granting 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds. Variables aren't bugs, though.

[Trae ThaThruth]

@ boon if u want to toss wiki out in a post then even wiki talks about TC having the 3 sec cooldown rule.

Ofc wiki is not always correct but hey w/e gets some pplz going

[Jebel Krong]

 infiltrators have been nerfed/f**ked with enough thanks.

[spudspot]

Booshnickins wrote...

Actually some of those multipliers were already on the Wiki prior to that list coming out.

I don't see how I'm being stubborn and you and the others who support your view aren't? All I'm asking is for proof that your claim is 100% correct from a developer. Yet nobody can seem to procure that. I've done two things, gave my opinion on how it appears to be working to me, as you can see from others I'm not the only one who thinks that way, and that I'd like proof from a developer that says it's working the way it should.

So if a dev came along and stated: "We've put that variable in the coalesced to control the minimum cd of Tactical Cloak.", you'd consider this as proof. If the variable just exists* you are saying it ain't proving anything because. Yep that's it, it doesn't prove anything because.

Sorry, but that does sound pretty stubborn to me.

It's the same with reload cancelling, coalesced specifies the percentage of the animation you can cancel and still there are people claiming it was "a glitch". Funny thing is: devs have already during ME2 confirmed it works as intended and there are still people around who just want to see it as a glitch.

*note that a power who is not meant to have a variable cooldown wouldn't need such a value. If this value would be in for every power - I don't know if it is - and would cause a "bug" in the case of Tactical Cloak it would've been "fixed" by now, simply because it takes like 1 minute to change that value.

[NuclearTech76]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I used to think this was correct.

Equip a Javelin and claymore. Cloak and fire immediately then let me know about your CD.

Is that not the way it works?

Booshnickins wrote...

It's one of the reasons they're so
insanely popular. It's not something that can be fixed via the cloud/hot
fixes they do every week either. It would need to be a part of an
actual patch. It's clearly not meant to be that way. However I doubt it
would get fixed due to the amount of emotional, suicidal children
posting about how their class was ruined.

LOL, you're probably right.

It's just odd when you compare Infiltrators with other classes.  Like, say you put heavy weapons on a Paladin.  In the same time that a Paladin can fire off a bunch of normal damage shots plus a single Energy Drain, the Salarian Infiltrator can go through 4 or 5 cloak cycles of double-damage shots with 4 or 5 Energy Drains.

No. If you cloak and immediately fire with that weight, you are going to still have a really long CD.

[Cyonan]

Shia Luck wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

If they were going to remove the minimum
cooldown on Cloak, they'd need to reduce the base cooldown on it so the change would have no effect on how they play.
Infiltrators are still half combat based and they rely very heavily on
their guns for damage. If you take that away, they're just less as effective as Soldiers that   except they also can go invisible for 5 seconds.

Fixed that for you

Not even close =P

Human and Turian Soldiers would annihilate every Infiltrator without changing the base cooldown on cloak. N7 Destroyer already annhilates the Human and Turian Soldiers, so what it would do to Infiltrators would just be embarassing.

[wraith27]

Tactical Cloak has already been nerfed...consequence? More shotgun infiltrators than sniper infiltrators, since sniper infiltrators are much less effective. I might be ok with this nerf, since I think it added lots of variety.

But without this cooldown system, infiltrators aren't comparable to casters. So no more infiltrators means one less class people use and less objectives completed for all. Where is the good? So adepts can top the scoreboard? In a BE based team they do.

Plus those biotics explosions make it really hard for sniper infiltrators...

TC doesn't need to be lowered to the level of AR/Marksman.  They need to be uplifted.

Modifié par wraith27, 08 août 2012 - 05:22 .

[Fang92]

If variable cooldown is a bug why does the flamer have it?

[fmsantos39]

After all the Nerf, there is still ppl calling Infiltrators OP, god some ppl just don't have a life...

[dumael]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

Eh, whut? Can you please point out to me where I said tactical cloak was overpowered?

If anything, cloak's scaled cooldown mechanics help deal with some of the excessively heavy weapons (Javelin, Claymore, BW) which supports more interesting infiltrator setups.

[Kalas Magnus]

Riotstean wrote...

Alijah Green wrote...

 

This^

indeed.

[Creston918]

GroverA125 wrote...

I believe that there should be some form of deterrent from consistently using the heavier sniper rifles and weapons. Not saying remove that system, but I'd ask that they change the cooldown so that heavy rifles will have a noticably longer cooldown (not 8 seconds, maybe around 0.3, just enough so that if you are using a light/midweight sniper rifle, you'd be getting one extra shot every 10 or so shots), and decrease the cooldown significantly for the lightweight sniper rifles (as to make them more appealing, they would be able to flick from breaking cloak to engaging cloak faster than a midweight or heavy sniper rifle).

Because let's be honest, there's very little point equipping a Raptor or Viper when you have one of the heavier, stronger sniper rifles. All you really get is quicker other-cooldown powers and a bit less delay if you spend all your time in cloak.

What your solution would end up doing is make sure that every sniper infiltrator uses a Valiant. Yay?

There is a reason nobody user a Raptor or Viper, which is that they are uncommon weapons, and thus shouldn't be as powerful as a Rare or Ultra-rare. The idea of balance that every weapon should be just as viable means there'd be no purpose in ever trying to unlock rares or ultra-rares, since your common sniper rifle works just as well. Which is ludicrous to consider.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This isn't right.

Yet again, you prove you know nothing about the Infiltrator class.

Heavy loadouts punish damage specced Infiltrators to a higher degree than duration infiltrators, because the cloak duration is shorter. When the cloak CD is scaled between how long you stay in cloak, and the total duration with a 6 second duration as opposed to 12+ seconds, that means you're going to get longer cooldowns more frequently.

However, on my duration specced Infiltrators, I can equip a Saber and a Wraith (even heavier than a Claymore) with no real penalty to my cooldown.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 08 août 2012 - 05:42 .

[AshirahTSparkle]

dumael wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

Eh, whut? Can you please point out to me where I said tactical cloak was overpowered?

If anything, cloak's scaled cooldown mechanics help deal with some of the excessively heavy weapons (Javelin, Claymore, BW) which supports more interesting infiltrator setups.

lol no, I was just adding on to your reply. Wasn't replying to you.

[NuclearTech76]

Shia Luck wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I used to think this was correct.

Equip a Javelin and claymore. Cloak and fire immediately then let me know about your CD.

An extreme example of the two heaviest guns in the game doesn't say anything. Your CD must be +150%+ with that loadout. That will mess up even an infiltrator. The OP's statement about lower than normal CDs holds in the vast majority of cases. Just because it's the same rule does not mean it is logical to reach the same consequence in every situation.

It says that the CD is weight dependent.

[Tonymac]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

dumael wrote...

Probably one of the many reasons why TC was brought in line with other powers/nerfed. Previous to that nerf, I had characters running with small negative cooldown bonus and didn't have to worry about cooldowns all that much. Now my damage-specced infiltrators are better off running with lighter weaponry.

With the current base duration, you really have to cloak->fire quickly to hit the minimum C/D while duration specced infiltrators have more lee-way but don't get such a large damage bonus.

It's mostly self correcting now as you can run with whatever weapons you want for damage spec, but if you don't immediately fire after cloaking -or- forget to use powers from cloak, your C/Ds can be longer than eternity.

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

I agree.

The moronic "Nerf ALL the Things" crowd will even call for nerfs on classes they do not and cannot play.  The devs, whom do not play, will listen to that crowd and nerf evertything.

I'm beginning to think that Bioware outsourced the MP portion opf the game to an institute in Bombay for the Mentally Challenged.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

To kill a single mook. While the "most other characters" could pull off tech bursts and biotic bursts to wipe out a whole bunch of enemies in the time the infil takes to kill 2 mooks. And you are really only talking about TC working with proxmity mines. Try playing the other infiltrators that don't have a proximity mine.


Yeah, it's too OP for a class that's supposed to deal lots of damage to a single target to... well... do a lot of damage to a single target, apparently.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to self-detonate tech bursts, so let's not compare those.

And given the frequency with which biotics are dodged, miss, or are cancelled by other powers, let's not compare those either.

I'm comparing Infiltrators to the class the is supposed to be the pure damage specialist - the Soldier.  Other than the Destroyer, tell me why you think it makes sense for Soldiers to be more impacted by weapon weight than Infiltrators.

[tCruzin4lyfe]

Do people actually enjoy the game or do they sit around trying to find something they don't agree with? Seriously, just have fun and ignore the rest, makes things much more enjoyable instead of worrying about every little detail (especially how and what other players use).