170 réponses à ce sujet

[NuclearTech76]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This isn't right.

Yet again, you prove you know nothing about the Infiltrator class.

Heavy loadouts punish damage specced Infiltrators to a higher degree than duration infiltrators, because the cloak duration is shorter. When the cloak CD is scaled between how long you stay in cloak, and the total duration with a 6 second duration as opposed to 12+ seconds, that means you're going to get longer cooldowns more frequently.

However, on my duration specced Infiltrators, I can equip a Saber and a Wraith with no real penalty to my cooldown.

So are you saying the percentage of time spent in cloak to the total cloak cycle is a determing factor? Example a duration specced infil vs a damage specced infil with the same loadouts each spend 1 sec in cloak. Is there a difference in their CDs?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This isn't right.

Yet again, you prove you know nothing about the Infiltrator class.

Heavy loadouts punish damage specced Infiltrators to a higher degree than duration infiltrators, because the cloak duration is shorter. When the cloak CD is scaled between how long you stay in cloak, and the total duration with a 6 second duration as opposed to 12+ seconds, that means you're going to get longer cooldowns more frequently.

However, on my duration specced Infiltrators, I can equip a Saber and a Wraith with no real penalty to my cooldown.

Oh okay.  So you're using the full 6-second duration on your damage-speced Infiltrators.  I would say learn to play.

[NuclearTech76]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

It's difficult, if not impossible, to self-detonate tech bursts, so let's not compare those.

And given the frequency with which biotics are dodged, miss, or are cancelled by other powers, let's not compare those either.

I'm comparing Infiltrators to the class the is supposed to be the pure damage specialist - the Soldier.  Other than the Destroyer, tell me why you think it makes sense for Soldiers to be more impacted by weapon weight than Infiltrators.

Both classes are heavy damage dealers. Soldiers get more surviviabilty in sustained fire and get a higher carry weight to start.

[Shia Luck]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I used to think this was correct.

Equip a Javelin and claymore. Cloak and fire immediately then let me know about your CD.

An extreme example of the two heaviest guns in the game doesn't say anything. Your CD must be +150%+ with that loadout. That will mess up even an infiltrator. The OP's statement about lower than normal CDs holds in the vast majority of cases. Just because it's the same rule does not mean it is logical to reach the same consequence in every situation.

It says that the CD is weight dependent.

I don't think that has ever been in doubt has it? OP is talking about the way with most loudouts you can cancel the effect of the heavy weight if you adopt a TC>fire immediatly strategy, no?

Anyway, as I said, I think inf is fine the way it is and can't see any reason to make it play exxactly the same as the other classes. Variety is fun!

Desperatly searching for things to complain and argue about just makes this forum a sorry place. 

Have fun

[Booshnickins]

I love how I'm being called stubborn simply for asking you guys to show me proof that's backed by a developer. I guess you people think that's how it works in court cases. The prosecutor walks in and states their case, then provides no further evidence to back their claim and then rests. Sorry that's not how it works.

I would simply like to see a developer back up the claim that it IS in fact working as intended. To me it just doesn't seem that way. Having a random guy on the internet say he looked at some coding on his computer is in no way proof. All of you are so sure you're correct, yet nobody has any concrete evidence to prove that. So how am I being any more stubborn than the rest of you?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Shia Luck wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I used to think this was correct.

Equip a Javelin and claymore. Cloak and fire immediately then let me know about your CD.

An extreme example of the two heaviest guns in the game doesn't say anything. Your CD must be +150%+ with that loadout. That will mess up even an infiltrator. The OP's statement about lower than normal CDs holds in the vast majority of cases. Just because it's the same rule does not mean it is logical to reach the same consequence in every situation.

It says that the CD is weight dependent.

I don't think that has ever been in doubt has it? OP is talking about the way with most loudouts you can cancel the effect of the heavy weight if you adopt a TC>fire immediatly strategy, no?

Anyway, as I said, I think inf is fine the way it is and can't see any reason to make it play exxactly the same as the other classes. Variety is fun!

Desperatly searching for things to complain and argue about just makes this forum a sorry place. 

Have fun

Yes, variety is fun.  And many characters are severely underplayed because they lack a distinct advantage that is on par with the advantages of certain other classes in terms of utility.

Booshnickins wrote...

I love how I'm being called stubborn
simply for asking you guys to show me proof that's backed by a
developer. I guess you people think that's how it works in court cases.
The prosecutor walks in and states their case, then provides no further
evidence to back their claim and then rests. Sorry that's not how it
works.

I would simply like to see a developer back up the claim
that it IS in fact working as intended. To me it just doesn't seem that
way. Having a random guy on the internet say he looked at some coding on
his computer is in no way proof. All of you are so sure you're correct,
yet nobody has any concrete evidence to prove that. So how am I being
any more stubborn than the rest of you?

Some people are so attached to their favorite things that that can't have a reasonable discussion about its true advantages and disadvantages.  To them, it's obviously working as intended, simply because they use it.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 08 août 2012 - 06:02 .

[holdenagincourt]

TC might need some tweaks still, but I don't think giving it a flat cooldown is a good idea.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This isn't right.

Yet again, you prove you know nothing about the Infiltrator class.

Heavy loadouts punish damage specced Infiltrators to a higher degree than duration infiltrators, because the cloak duration is shorter. When the cloak CD is scaled between how long you stay in cloak, and the total duration with a 6 second duration as opposed to 12+ seconds, that means you're going to get longer cooldowns more frequently.

However, on my duration specced Infiltrators, I can equip a Saber and a Wraith with no real penalty to my cooldown.

Oh okay.  So you're using the full 6-second duration on your damage-speced Infiltrators.  I would say learn to play.

*licks lips in anticipation*

[Clayless]

Booshnickins wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

There is a variable in the Coalesced file that controls the minimum cooldown of Tactical Cloak. 

If they have a variable for it, it's safe to consider it not a bug when it happens.

That's not a quote from a Developer now is it? Show me an honest to God quote from an actual Developer that says it's working as they had originally intended, and I'll let it go. Until then, I will view it as a bug.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL.

I have never read a post more deluded than this on the entire Internet, this beats even YouTube comments.

[.458]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all. The act of cloaking makes a noise, anyone close will see through it. The act of walking makes noise, walking close to something will make it see past it. The act of running makes more noise, and brings down the house. You can only stand still and then only if they were further away when you cloaked. But, it lasts 6 seconds, they will rarely be far enough away to not hear then to come close and to not be standing there when it goes away. Cloak does not allow shields to regenerate, so it is pointless to cloak if they can hear you, it just drops your survival. Unlike things like adrenaline rush and marksmanship, this is a short acting specialization that DOES NOT HELP while actually cloaked. You give us the ability to keep sniping while cloaked (no, the use 1 power doesn't count, it sucks and you don't have any time left anyway after reloading a slow ass sniper rifle) without losing cloak and maybe that 3 seconds won't matter. You also have to remove the ability for all other skills to do similar, and there are other skills in other classes which do have this advantage. Don't single out a class because you don't want people having more than you, the grass is not so green on the other side. FREE??? You are so selfish and wrong it is unbelievable.

[Shia Luck]

Booshnickins wrote...

I love how I'm being called stubborn simply for asking you guys to show me proof that's backed by a developer. I guess you people think that's how it works in court cases. The prosecutor walks in and states their case, then provides no further evidence to back their claim and then rests. Sorry that's not how it works.

In that analogy, aren't you the prosecutor? You're the one claiming it is a bug.

Or do you play a game and assuming everything is a bug until you have evidence otherwise?

[Clayless]

Shia Luck wrote...
Or do you play a game and assuming everything is a bug until you have evidence otherwise?

Evidence?

You mean developer quotes. Evidence doesn't cut it.

[billy the squid]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Not calling for a nerf, just trying to gauge what people think about the Tac Cloak cooldown being proportional to amount of time in cloak, rather than a flat cooldown period like most powers?

This seems like a bit much to me.  It enables damage-speced Infiltrators to equip the heaviest weapons in the game without having to worry about cooldown periods, assuming the Infiltrator cloaks immediately before firing, they'll get the 3 second cooldown each time.  The majority of other classes in the game don't get this advantage.  Coupled with the huge damage bonus and the invisibility from tactical cloak, this additional benefit is going a bit overboard.

Why shouldn't Tac Cloak be subject to a flat cooldown like the majority of powers in the game?  Infiltrators are powerful enough as-is without this.

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This isn't right.

Curious what people think about this.  I am willing to consider alternative opinions, because there could be something I'm missing.  If you think it is reasonable for Infiltrator Tac Cloak cooldown to be based on cloak time, please explain why.

There's a tradeoff you need to make with most characters between weapon weight and the cooldown time of your powers.  Why should the Infiltrator be capable of bypassing this tradeoff?

Ha...No. The infiltrators already got hit hard. As did the SR's in DPS without the tac cloak boost. It renders all the high powered snipers like the Javelin, BW and Widow useless even with no secondary weapon equipped. The Widow would be the only one remotely useful as it's rare and fairly easy to get up to mrk X the other two, a tiny fraction have it at mrk X I've only got mine up to mrk V and they still weight a ton.

Why should a all characters adhere to the same design of cooldown and weapon weight being linked? In the name of "balance" it's not balance it's completely arbitrary.

[Cyonan]

Booshnickins wrote...

I love how I'm being called stubborn simply for asking you guys to show me proof that's backed by a developer. I guess you people think that's how it works in court cases. The prosecutor walks in and states their case, then provides no further evidence to back their claim and then rests. Sorry that's not how it works.

I would simply like to see a developer back up the claim that it IS in fact working as intended. To me it just doesn't seem that way. Having a random guy on the internet say he looked at some coding on his computer is in no way proof. All of you are so sure you're correct, yet nobody has any concrete evidence to prove that. So how am I being any more stubborn than the rest of you?

It's actually more like if the prosecutor walks in states their case and has DNA evidence to back it up and witnesses, then the defense says "Well, the guy didn't admit to murder, so you don't know that he did it".

I can run you through the process to test it yourself if you don't trust my word, but you need to have the PC version of the game.

[rmccowen]

Booshnickins wrote...

I love how I'm being called stubborn simply for asking you guys to show me proof that's backed by a developer. I guess you people think that's how it works in court cases. The prosecutor walks in and states their case, then provides no further evidence to back their claim and then rests. Sorry that's not how it works.

If we were in court, the correct analogy would be an attorney demanding testimony from a legislator about the intention of a particular law, and declaring victory when said testimony wasn't forthcoming.

This is a more relaxed, public conversation--so the right standard to apply aren't American rules of evidence and courtroom procedure, but rather the general structure of an argument. In this case, you've made a claim--"Tactical Cloak is bugged"--without any kind of evidence at all. The counter-claim is "Tactical Cloak is working as intended", on the (reasonably attested) grounds that there's a minimum duration specified in the game files, as well as the warrant that a unique variable to regulate the behavior of the TC cooldown wouldn't exist if the behavior of the TC cooldown was unintended.

That means it's your turn. You could strengthen your claim by providing any kind of argument or evidence, or you could attack the grounds and warrant on which the counter-claim is based. You're kind of doing the latter, except that you're relying on the idea that several well-known posters are lying about the contents of a publicly availble file, for reasons you haven't bothered to explain.

And if that's the best you can muster, it's reasonable to conclude some combination of intractable stubbornness on your part, a desire to avoid losing face by admitting your error, or some overwhelming bias in favor of finding new "bugs" in the game.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

.458 wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all. The act of cloaking makes a noise, anyone close will see through it. The act of walking makes noise, walking close to something will make it see past it. The act of running makes more noise, and brings down the house. You can only stand still and then only if they were further away when you cloaked. But, it lasts 6 seconds, they will rarely be far enough away to not hear then to come close and to not be standing there when it goes away. Cloak does not allow shields to regenerate, so it is pointless to cloak if they can hear you, it just drops your survival. Unlike things like adrenaline rush and marksmanship, this is a short acting specialization that DOES NOT HELP while actually cloaked. You give us the ability to keep sniping while cloaked (no, the use 1 power doesn't count, it sucks and you don't have any time left anyway after reloading a slow ass sniper rifle) without losing cloak and maybe that 3 seconds won't matter. You also have to remove the ability for all other skills to do similar, and there are other skills in other classes which do have this advantage. Don't single out a class because you don't want people having more than you, the grass is not so green on the other side. FREE??? You are so selfish and wrong it is unbelievable.

Who is being selfish?  You obviously play one class and one class only, and are incapable of evaluating its abilities in a fair and unemotional way.  I'm trying to have a discussion about this, and I'm admitting I may have missed something and maybe am not looking at the issue from every angle.  You on the other hand, only see things from your limited point of view, and you're unwilling to have a discussion with people who might have different opinions from your own.  Stop being so selfish.

billy the squid wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Not
calling for a nerf, just trying to gauge what people think about the
Tac Cloak cooldown being proportional to amount of time in cloak, rather
than a flat cooldown period like most powers?

This seems like a
bit much to me.  It enables damage-speced Infiltrators to equip the
heaviest weapons in the game without having to worry about cooldown
periods, assuming the Infiltrator cloaks immediately before firing,
they'll get the 3 second cooldown each time.  The majority of other
classes in the game don't get this advantage.  Coupled with the huge
damage bonus and the invisibility from tactical cloak, this additional
benefit is going a bit overboard.

Why shouldn't Tac Cloak be
subject to a flat cooldown like the majority of powers in the game? 
Infiltrators are powerful enough as-is without this.

Perhaps the
biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced
Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry
about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This
isn't right.

Curious what people think about this.  I am willing
to consider alternative opinions, because there could be something I'm
missing.  If you think it is reasonable for Infiltrator Tac Cloak
cooldown to be based on cloak time, please explain why.

There's a
tradeoff you need to make with most characters between weapon weight
and the cooldown time of your powers.  Why should the Infiltrator be
capable of bypassing this tradeoff?

Ha...No. The
infiltrators already got hit hard. As did the SR's in DPS without the
tac cloak boost. It renders all the high powered snipers like the
Javelin, BW and Widow useless even with no secondary weapon equipped.
The Widow would be the only one remotely useful as it's rare and fairly
easy to get up to mrk X the other two, a tiny fraction have it at mrk X
I've only got mine up to mrk V and they still weight a ton.

Why
should a all characters adhere to the same design of cooldown and weapon
weight being linked? In the name of "balance" it's not balance it's
completely arbitrary.

Why does everyone pretend that a 25% sniper rifle damage bonus in addition to the 80% is "useless".  Tell me - which other class gets a weapon specific damage bonus like this, on top of a large damage bonus for all weapons?  Oh that's right - none.  But here you are saying it's useless.  No, I'll tell you what's "useless" - firing a weapon without a 100%+ damage buff.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 08 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[Ashen One]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

So are you saying the percentage of time spent in cloak to the total cloak cycle is a determing factor? Example a duration specced infil vs a damage specced infil with the same loadouts each spend 1 sec in cloak. Is there a difference in their CDs?

One second? Maybe not (I'd have to go test it) but anything longer than that (I.E. any practical application of Tactical cloak in a real game situation). and the difference becomes glaringly obvious. A Duration infiltrator that spends 3 seconds in cloak with a Claymore for example, will have a much shorter cooldown than a Damage specced Infiltrator using the same weapon and spending the same 3 seconds in cloak.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Perhaps
the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes
durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator
have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator
doesn't?  This isn't right.

Yet again, you prove you know nothing about the Infiltrator class.

Heavy
loadouts punish damage specced Infiltrators to a higher degree than
duration infiltrators, because the cloak duration is shorter. When the
cloak CD is scaled between how long you stay in cloak, and the total
duration with a 6 second duration as opposed to 12+ seconds, that means
you're going to get longer cooldowns more frequently.

However, on my duration specced Infiltrators, I can equip a Saber and a Wraith with no real penalty to my cooldown.

Oh okay.  So you're using the full 6-second duration on your damage-speced Infiltrators.  I would say learn to play.

And I see your reading comprehension skills (or lack thereof) have not improved.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 08 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

And I see your reading comprehension skills (or lack thereof) have not improved.

If you're using a damage spec-cloak in a way in which your cooldown is substantially impacted by weapon weight frequently, then you need to learn to play.

[.458]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

.458 wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all. The act of cloaking makes a noise, anyone close will see through it. The act of walking makes noise, walking close to something will make it see past it. The act of running makes more noise, and brings down the house. You can only stand still and then only if they were further away when you cloaked. But, it lasts 6 seconds, they will rarely be far enough away to not hear then to come close and to not be standing there when it goes away. Cloak does not allow shields to regenerate, so it is pointless to cloak if they can hear you, it just drops your survival. Unlike things like adrenaline rush and marksmanship, this is a short acting specialization that DOES NOT HELP while actually cloaked. You give us the ability to keep sniping while cloaked (no, the use 1 power doesn't count, it sucks and you don't have any time left anyway after reloading a slow ass sniper rifle) without losing cloak and maybe that 3 seconds won't matter. You also have to remove the ability for all other skills to do similar, and there are other skills in other classes which do have this advantage. Don't single out a class because you don't want people having more than you, the grass is not so green on the other side. FREE??? You are so selfish and wrong it is unbelievable.

Who is being selfish?  You obviously play one class and one class only, and are incapable of evaluating its abilities in a fair and unemotional way.  I'm trying to have a discussion about this, and I'm admitting I may have missed something and maybe am not looking at the issue from every angle.  You on the other hand, only see things from your limited point of view, and you're unwilling to have a discussion with people who might have different opinions from your own.  Stop being so selfish.

billy the squid wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Not
calling for a nerf, just trying to gauge what people think about the
Tac Cloak cooldown being proportional to amount of time in cloak, rather
than a flat cooldown period like most powers?

This seems like a
bit much to me.  It enables damage-speced Infiltrators to equip the
heaviest weapons in the game without having to worry about cooldown
periods, assuming the Infiltrator cloaks immediately before firing,
they'll get the 3 second cooldown each time.  The majority of other
classes in the game don't get this advantage.  Coupled with the huge
damage bonus and the invisibility from tactical cloak, this additional
benefit is going a bit overboard.

Why shouldn't Tac Cloak be
subject to a flat cooldown like the majority of powers in the game? 
Infiltrators are powerful enough as-is without this.

Perhaps the
biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced
Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry
about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This
isn't right.

Curious what people think about this.  I am willing
to consider alternative opinions, because there could be something I'm
missing.  If you think it is reasonable for Infiltrator Tac Cloak
cooldown to be based on cloak time, please explain why.

There's a
tradeoff you need to make with most characters between weapon weight
and the cooldown time of your powers.  Why should the Infiltrator be
capable of bypassing this tradeoff?

Ha...No. The
infiltrators already got hit hard. As did the SR's in DPS without the
tac cloak boost. It renders all the high powered snipers like the
Javelin, BW and Widow useless even with no secondary weapon equipped.
The Widow would be the only one remotely useful as it's rare and fairly
easy to get up to mrk X the other two, a tiny fraction have it at mrk X
I've only got mine up to mrk V and they still weight a ton.

Why
should a all characters adhere to the same design of cooldown and weapon
weight being linked? In the name of "balance" it's not balance it's
completely arbitrary.

Why does everyone pretend that a 25% sniper rifle damage bonus in addition to the 80% is "useless".  Tell me - which other class gets a weapon specific damage bonus like this, on top of a large damage bonus for all weapons?  Oh that's right - none.  But here you are saying it's useless.  No, I'll tell you what's "useless" - firing a weapon without a 100%+ damage buff.

Haven't played infiltrator since the new stuff came out...when I did it was only male quarian for tac scan. I see prejudice from you, and assumptions which are wrong. Before the MQI I played soldier or sentinel, sometimes adept. Never liked geth. Making assumptions and flat out bad comparisons put you below bronze in the reality department. What's worse is that you seem to need to be the bully on the block that hurts other people to feel good.

[rmccowen]

.458 wrote...

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all. The act of cloaking makes a noise, anyone close will see through it. The act of walking makes noise, walking close to something will make it see past it. The act of running makes more noise, and brings down the house. You can only stand still and then only if they were further away when you cloaked. But, it lasts 6 seconds, they will rarely be far enough away to not hear then to come close and to not be standing there when it goes away.

This sounds like inexperience, to me. Enemies' ability to hear you has a very short range, and they don't share information well. As long as you stay away from the badguys and/or make sure to keep moving and evading when you're close, Cloak works fine.

That is... it works exactly like invisibility ought to.

Cloak does not allow shields to regenerate, so it is pointless to cloak if they can hear you, it just drops your survival. Unlike things like adrenaline rush and marksmanship, this is a short acting specialization that DOES NOT HELP while actually cloaked.

Cloak raises your survivability by orders of magnitude. Again, it's just not that hard to avoid being targeted while cloaked. If you can do it with a Shadow, you can do it with any Infiltrator.

You give us the ability to keep sniping while cloaked (no, the use 1 power doesn't count, it sucks and you don't have any time left anyway after reloading a slow ass sniper rifle) without losing cloak and maybe that 3 seconds won't matter. You also have to remove the ability for all other skills to do similar, and there are other skills in other classes which do have this advantage. Don't single out a class because you don't want people having more than you, the grass is not so green on the other side. FREE??? You are so selfish and wrong it is unbelievable.

Again, you seem either inexperienced or ignorant about Infiltrator mechanics. The damage boost lasts 2.5 seconds when the cloak is broken, which is enough time to empty the clip from a Black Widow--or use a power and then empty the clip from a Valiant. Similarly, with reload-canceling, you can get two rounds off from a Widow.

If you could fire your weapon for the entire duration of Tactical Cloak, there would be no point in playing any other class. As it is, I suspect you would be happier playing an N7 Destroyer or Turian Soldier.

[Poison_Berrie]

Tonymac wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

I agree.

The moronic "Nerf ALL the Things" crowd will even call for nerfs on classes they do not and cannot play.  The devs, whom do not play, will listen to that crowd and nerf evertything.

First things first. The OP isn't actually asking for a nerf. He's wondering how it works, if it's supposed to work that way and how this compares to other classes. 

Secondly: You second statement has been disproven. You are looking for a scapegoat you can hurl insults at, it's a human thing to do. But that doesn't make it true.

.458 wrote...

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all. The act of cloaking makes a noise, anyone close will see through it. The act of walking makes noise, walking close to something will make it see past it. The act of running makes more noise, and brings down the house. You can only stand still and then only if they were further away when you cloaked. But, it lasts 6 seconds, they will rarely be far enough away to not hear then to come close and to not be standing there when it goes away. Cloak does not allow shields to regenerate, so it is pointless to cloak if they can hear you, it just drops your survival. 

That's a gross exageration of the effects of your sounds. There's a range to the sounds being heard dependent on the enemy and the type of sound, yes, but it is not at all that you can't do anything while cloaked. 

[Striker93175]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Not calling for a nerf, just trying to gauge what people think about the Tac Cloak cooldown being proportional to amount of time in cloak, rather than a flat cooldown period like most powers?

This seems like a bit much to me.  It enables damage-speced Infiltrators to equip the heaviest weapons in the game without having to worry about cooldown periods, assuming the Infiltrator cloaks immediately before firing, they'll get the 3 second cooldown each time.  The majority of other classes in the game don't get this advantage.  Coupled with the huge damage bonus and the invisibility from tactical cloak, this additional benefit is going a bit overboard.

Why shouldn't Tac Cloak be subject to a flat cooldown like the majority of powers in the game?  Infiltrators are powerful enough as-is without this.

Perhaps the biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This isn't right.

Curious what people think about this.  I am willing to consider alternative opinions, because there could be something I'm missing.  If you think it is reasonable for Infiltrator Tac Cloak cooldown to be based on cloak time, please explain why.

There's a tradeoff you need to make with most characters between weapon weight and the cooldown time of your powers.  Why should the Infiltrator be capable of bypassing this tradeoff?

Huge bonus?  Not now, a fair dmg bonus... well yes.  I you factor AR dmg bonus and the auto reload AR offers.  Marksman and Devistator mode give dmg via rate of fire increase...  Or even geth + dmg bonus on geth HM...  fair bonus is a better choice of words.  How about we stop nerfing the inf

My shadow is spec'd for duration... and if you manually cancel cloak (hit the cloak key) and immediately fire off elec slash before the cloak cooldown begins, then cancel out of the elec slash by dodgeing sideways... You can stay cloaked for the full 11 sec and not even get the 3 sec cooldown bu cancelling into ES and cancelling it and instead getting the 1.5 sec ES cooldown.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

And I see your reading comprehension skills (or lack thereof) have not improved.

If you're using a damage spec-cloak in a way in which your cooldown is substantially impacted by weapon weight frequently, then you need to learn to play.

I didn't say anything about my use of damage spec cloak. I said that heavy loadouts punish the damage Infiltrator more severely than the duration infiltrator, because the cloak window is shorter, and the cooldown is scaled between the time spent in cloak, and the total duration. Obviously with a shorter duration, you're going to get longer cooldowns more frequently. I then gave an example of a loadout that will have a minimal impact on a duration infiltrator, but would run a very long cooldown on a damage infiltrator very frequently.

If you couldn't decipher that from my earlier post, then you need to learn to read.

[lonefedaykin]

Booshnickins wrote...

I love how I'm being called stubborn simply for asking you guys to show me proof that's backed by a developer. I guess you people think that's how it works in court cases. The prosecutor walks in and states their case, then provides no further evidence to back their claim and then rests. Sorry that's not how it works.

I would simply like to see a developer back up the claim that it IS in fact working as intended. To me it just doesn't seem that way. Having a random guy on the internet say he looked at some coding on his computer is in no way proof. All of you are so sure you're correct, yet nobody has any concrete evidence to prove that. So how am I being any more stubborn than the rest of you?

Interesting that you brought up a court case since it is you who has this whole thing backwards. You are the one claiming that it is bugged. It is your claim and thus the burden of proof is on you. If I go into a court room and claim that you stole something from me, it is on me to provide proof of my claim, not the other way around. BioWare has always informed the community when something is a legitimate glitch or bug. The missile glitch is a great example. A variable TC is not a bug as it does have a min cooldown time set in variables. If you claim it is bugged, provide proof of your claim. Show me where a developer said it is bugged.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

.458 wrote...

Haven't played infiltrator since the new stuff came out...when I did it was only male quarian for tac scan. I see prejudice from you, and assumptions which are wrong. Before the MQI I played soldier or sentinel, sometimes adept. Never liked geth. Making assumptions and flat out bad comparisons put you below bronze in the reality department. What's worse is that you seem to need to be the bully on the block that hurts other people to feel good.

Who is making assumptions that are wrong?  Look at the title of the thread - "Is this reasonable?" not "This isn't reasonable."  I stated a point of view, but acknowledged there were certain things that maybe I don't understand.  I'm trying to have a discussion/debate, but you seem to be more interested in judging my character.

[billy the squid]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Not
calling for a nerf, just trying to gauge what people think about the
Tac Cloak cooldown being proportional to amount of time in cloak, rather
than a flat cooldown period like most powers?

This seems like a
bit much to me.  It enables damage-speced Infiltrators to equip the
heaviest weapons in the game without having to worry about cooldown
periods, assuming the Infiltrator cloaks immediately before firing,
they'll get the 3 second cooldown each time.  The majority of other
classes in the game don't get this advantage.  Coupled with the huge
damage bonus and the invisibility from tactical cloak, this additional
benefit is going a bit overboard.

Why shouldn't Tac Cloak be
subject to a flat cooldown like the majority of powers in the game? 
Infiltrators are powerful enough as-is without this.

Perhaps the
biggest problem I have with this is that it penalizes durations-speced
Infiltrators.  Why should a duration-speced Infiltrator have to worry
about weapon weight while the damage-speced Infiltrator doesn't?  This
isn't right.

Curious what people think about this.  I am willing
to consider alternative opinions, because there could be something I'm
missing.  If you think it is reasonable for Infiltrator Tac Cloak
cooldown to be based on cloak time, please explain why.

There's a
tradeoff you need to make with most characters between weapon weight
and the cooldown time of your powers.  Why should the Infiltrator be
capable of bypassing this tradeoff?

Ha...No. The
infiltrators already got hit hard. As did the SR's in DPS without the
tac cloak boost. It renders all the high powered snipers like the
Javelin, BW and Widow useless even with no secondary weapon equipped.
The Widow would be the only one remotely useful as it's rare and fairly
easy to get up to mrk X the other two, a tiny fraction have it at mrk X
I've only got mine up to mrk V and they still weight a ton.

Why
should a all characters adhere to the same design of cooldown and weapon
weight being linked? In the name of "balance" it's not balance it's
completely arbitrary.

Why does everyone pretend that a 25% sniper rifle damage bonus in addition to the 80% is "useless".  Tell me - which other class gets a weapon specific damage bonus like this, on top of a large damage bonus for all weapons?  Oh that's right - none.  But here you are saying it's useless.  No, I'll tell you what's "useless" - firing a weapon without a 100%+ damage buff.

Because the sniper rifles were based around the huge damage boost in the 6th evolution of Tac cloak. which subsequently got nerfed. When the Krysae broke the damn weapon class. By functioning as the finger of God. The krysae got nerfed to managable levels along with the diminished sniper damage boost on tac cloak. But, You can't rebuff the tac cloak's DPS potential without turning the Krysae into a spam weapon again because of the damage, splash, proximity burst and ignoting shield gate. Or did you miss that problem?

At the moment. Why use a heavy rifle, when the DPS of each shot weapon is hamstrung by a combination extreme weight and shield gate. I would also submit why would the class have the damage boost for a paticular weapon system if it wasn't needed in the first place? At the moment. I can use a Javelin on Gold and Platinum, but it's simply more effective to use a shadow or shotgun/ Demolisher/ Fury Kroguard etc.

Or didn't you notice that Adrenaline rush gives a damage boost, Marksman screams assault rifle boost considering it's almost entirely accuracy and rate of fire based, as does the Destroyer's devastator mode. it's great when you have an fully auto shotgun equipped, but there's one weapon class which is seems to be designed with in mind especially with the subsequent bonuses to reduce weight for assault rifles.

Maybe you've been seeing a plethora of SR in this game that I haven't or is it me that every sniper that I see is sporting a low mrk sniper rifle on a class wholly unsuited for it. It's pretty obvious that those people who know how the mechanics work see it as the poor mans weapon of choice, when competing weapons simply out class it.


Edit: and just so we're clear I'm saying the SR's damage should be buffed at the weapon level, not increasing the tac cloak SR damage %, which would create the problem of the Krysea all over again, which in my opinion was poorly thought of and badly implemented as a weapon.

Modifié par billy the squid, 08 août 2012 - 06:52 .