170 réponses à ce sujet

[Fang92]

Djarknaein wrote...

May be tactical cloak could also drain your shield. And then regenerate only when the shield is fully charged.

Please shut up.

[atum]

Djarknaein wrote...

May be tactical cloak could also drain your shield. And then regenerate only when the shield is fully charged.

/facepalm


It already prevents shield regen and resets the regen timer.  <_<

Modifié par atum, 08 août 2012 - 07:32 .

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

It enables damage-speced Infiltrators to equip the heaviest weapons in
the game without having to worry about cooldown periods, assuming the
Infiltrator cloaks immediately before firing, they'll get the 3 second
cooldown each time. 

That is not the argument I quoted from the OP, but since you're so inclined to ignore my points go into a game with a SI dual wielding a Javelin and a Crusader then cloak for 2 seconds.

Then report back here and let us all know how long your cooldown was.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 08 août 2012 - 07:38 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I still think you shouldn't have a longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Basically, I think the best solution might be:

Lower base cooldown.
Flat cooldown for damage-speced cloak - the cooldown listed on power evolution

Variable cooldown for duration speced cloak, where full 11-second duration cooldown (w/ 40% dmg bonus) = 5-second (or less) duration cooldown (w/ 80% dmg bonus).

In other words, cooldown for dmg spec cloak will always equal "max" cooldown, but base cooldown should be lower than it is now.

[robarcool]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Basically, I think the best solution might be:

Lower base cooldown.
Flat cooldown for damage-speced cloak - the cooldown listed on power evolution

Variable cooldown for duration speced cloak, where full 11-second duration cooldown (w/ 40% dmg bonus) = 5-second (or less) duration cooldown (w/ 80% dmg bonus).

In other words, cooldown for dmg spec cloak will always equal "max" cooldown, but base cooldown should be lower than it is now.

How lower?

[Chardonney]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Basically, I think the best solution might be:

Lower base cooldown.
Flat cooldown for damage-speced cloak - the cooldown listed on power evolution

Variable cooldown for duration speced cloak, where full 11-second duration cooldown (w/ 40% dmg bonus) = 5-second (or less) duration cooldown (w/ 80% dmg bonus).

In other words, cooldown for dmg spec cloak will always equal "max" cooldown, but base cooldown should be lower than it is now.

Not this again. Leave the infiltrators alone, for pete's sake. TC has already been nerfed enough as it is. Or is this one of those "I was outscored too many times" -style vendetta.  

Modifié par Chardonney, 08 août 2012 - 07:59 .

[Djarknaein]

Fang92 wrote...

Djarknaein wrote...

May be tactical cloak could also drain your shield. And then regenerate only when the shield is fully charged.

Please shut up.

Guess sarcasm<_< requires emoticons to begrasp on the internet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Chardonney wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Basically, I think the best solution might be:

Lower base cooldown.
Flat cooldown for damage-speced cloak - the cooldown listed on power evolution

Variable cooldown for duration speced cloak, where full 11-second duration cooldown (w/ 40% dmg bonus) = 5-second (or less) duration cooldown (w/ 80% dmg bonus).

In other words, cooldown for dmg spec cloak will always equal "max" cooldown, but base cooldown should be lower than it is now.

Not this again. Leave the infiltrators alone, for pete's sake. TC has already been nerfed enough as it is. Or is this one of those "I was outscored too many times" -style vendetta.  

What I suggested actually wasn't a nerf.  But I do appreciate your prepackaged spam reply.

[atum]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Basically, I think the best solution might be:

Lower base cooldown.
Flat cooldown for damage-speced cloak - the cooldown listed on power evolution

Variable cooldown for duration speced cloak, where full 11-second duration cooldown (w/ 40% dmg bonus) = 5-second (or less) duration cooldown (w/ 80% dmg bonus).

In other words, cooldown for dmg spec cloak will always equal "max" cooldown, but base cooldown should be lower than it is now.

You realize this would be ~3-4 seconds for a Claymore GI

[Fang92]

Djarknaein wrote...

Fang92 wrote...

Djarknaein wrote...

May be tactical cloak could also drain your shield. And then regenerate only when the shield is fully charged.

Please shut up.

Guess sarcasm<_< requires emoticons to begrasp on the internet

3 things:
1. Sarcasm is hard to register through text
2. Ive seen more idiotic ideas put forth seriously
3. I'd rather not even put that kind of idea out there.

I apologize for my rudeness. 

[CmnDwnWrkn]

atum wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Basically, I think the best solution might be:

Lower base cooldown.
Flat cooldown for damage-speced cloak - the cooldown listed on power evolution

Variable cooldown for duration speced cloak, where full 11-second duration cooldown (w/ 40% dmg bonus) = 5-second (or less) duration cooldown (w/ 80% dmg bonus).

In other words, cooldown for dmg spec cloak will always equal "max" cooldown, but base cooldown should be lower than it is now.

You realize this would be ~3-4 seconds for a Claymore GI

I'm just putting some ideas out there.

But you know what?  It's fine as-is.  Every game mechanic is perfectly reasonable, and anybody who questions any aspect of them is a nerfer or is trying to ruin the game.  Thank you.

[xZBx]

Alijah Green wrote...

 

Amen.

[Chardonney]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

What I suggested actually wasn't a nerf.  But I do appreciate your prepackaged spam reply.

Not a spam, by the way. <_<


And yeah, maybe not a direct nerf but still a new way to turn the TC worse than it is now. I play almost exclusively with SI and the TC doesn't need any adjusting in any way. Why don't you go and try it in a gold or platinum match and see it yourself. TC is basically the only worthwhile power an Infiltrator has, what defines him/her. So, you don't like it -  I get the point - but why ruin it for other players?  

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

But you know what?  It's fine as-is.

Thank you.

Modifié par Chardonney, 08 août 2012 - 08:17 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Chardonney wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

What I suggested actually wasn't a nerf.  But I do appreciate your prepackaged spam reply.

Not a spam, by the way. <_<


And yeah, maybe not a direct nerf but still a new way to turn the TC worse than it is now. I play almost exclusively with SI and the TC doesn't need any adjusting in any way. Why don't you go and try it in a gold or platinum match and see it yourself. TC is basically the only worthwhile power an Infiltrator has, what defines him/her. So, you don't like it -  I get the point - but why ruin it for other players?  

Why don't you try playing one of the many other classes in the game?  Almost exclusively playing with a single character is a good way to get a skewed point-of-view.

I actually do play with many characters/classes, so I have some understanding of the differences between them, including the differences between a damage-speced and a duration-speced infiltrator.  And this is what I noticed, as an example...

Play as damage-speced Geth Infiltrator w/ GPS.  Cloak, prox mine, fire until clip empty, reload.  You're ready to cloak again and repeat the process.  80% damage buff on multiple GPS shots + proxy mine = short cooldown.

Play as duration-speced infiltrator. Use full cloak duration for objective = long cooldown.

Basically, in the time it takes you to cloak for full duration and cooldown, you can do several cloak for damage + cooldown cycles.

I don't think you should be penalized for using duration to its full capability vs. using cloak for DPS to its full capability.

You, on the other hand, probably have no idea what I'm talkign about.  The only thing flashing through your mind is "Don't touch my Infiltrator!!!!1" It's really silly.

[.458]

rmccowen wrote...

.458 wrote...

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all. The act of cloaking makes a noise, anyone close will see through it. The act of walking makes noise, walking close to something will make it see past it. The act of running makes more noise, and brings down the house. You can only stand still and then only if they were further away when you cloaked. But, it lasts 6 seconds, they will rarely be far enough away to not hear then to come close and to not be standing there when it goes away.

This sounds like inexperience, to me. Enemies' ability to hear you has a very short range, and they don't share information well. As long as you stay away from the badguys and/or make sure to keep moving and evading when you're close, Cloak works fine.

That is... it works exactly like invisibility ought to.
...

No, played it a lot. Also, I asked a developer. You don't have enough experience yourself it seems.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Chardonney wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

What I suggested actually wasn't a nerf.  But I do appreciate your prepackaged spam reply.

Not a spam, by the way. <_<


And yeah, maybe not a direct nerf but still a new way to turn the TC worse than it is now. I play almost exclusively with SI and the TC doesn't need any adjusting in any way. Why don't you go and try it in a gold or platinum match and see it yourself. TC is basically the only worthwhile power an Infiltrator has, what defines him/her. So, you don't like it -  I get the point - but why ruin it for other players?  

Play as damage-speced Geth Infiltrator w/ GPS.  Cloak, prox mine, fire until clip empty, reload.  You're ready to cloak again and repeat the process.  80% damage buff on multiple GPS shots + proxy mine = short cooldown.

Play as duration-speced infiltrator. Use full cloak duration for objective = long cooldown.

You are aware that duration cloak can be used as a DPS buff as well? You're comparing two completely different scenarios, and not really making any valid points.

If anything compare a duration Infiltrator's TC on objectives to a damage infiltrator's TC on objectives.

Then compare the duration Infiltrator's TC DPS buff to the damage Infiltrator's TC for DPS purposes.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 08 août 2012 - 08:56 .

[rmccowen]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a
longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using
for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is
provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced
with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration
vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Your first sentence doesn't make any sense.

The tradeoff at character creation is longer max duration versus better damage. The tactical consideration is: remain cloaked, or gain damage bonus? But a damage-spec Infiltrator can still keep a short Cloak cooldown, if he or she wants (by taking a lighter weapon), and a duration-spec infiltrator can still Cloak and then cancel immediately. The strategic choice influences the value of your tactical choices, but doesn't exclude either one.

The Infiltrators with the greatest benefit from the unusual Cloak cooldown mechanic are damage-spec Infiltrators that load up with multiple heavy weapons, but that's balanced (to some degree) by the fact that it's a potentially very costly playstyle. Everyone else is experiencing small to no benefit from it. I just don't see it as a problem, and I genuinely don't understand your objection.

.458 wrote...

rmccowen wrote...

.458 wrote...

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all.

(snip)

This sounds like inexperience, to me.

(snip)

No, played it a lot. Also, I asked a developer. You don't have enough experience yourself it seems.

Right. You asked a developer, who told you Cloak doesn't work hardly at all, and that enemies can hear you clearly at any distance.

It's much more likely that you asked a developer, who gave you some interesting and valuable information that boils down to "the enemy has senses other than sight, and will use them to target you if he can". You processed that, and translated it into "Cloak doesn't work hardly at all".

In fact, it works fine, as long as you don't try to polka with a gang of Cerberus Troopers--or even if you do, provided you keep moving and evading fire until you're out of their detection range.

Again, if Cloak didn't work, the N7 Shadow would be utterly unable to function. The fact that she's actually quite effective means you're missing something.

[.458]

rmccowen wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still think you shouldn't have a
longer cooldown using Tac Cloak for full 11-second duration vs. using
for damage with less than the 5-second duration. The tradeoff is
provided by the choice of power evolution itself - duration is balanced
with less damage output. You trade between cloaking for longer duration
vs. using cloak for higher DPS.

Your first sentence doesn't make any sense.

The tradeoff at character creation is longer max duration versus better damage. The tactical consideration is: remain cloaked, or gain damage bonus? But a damage-spec Infiltrator can still keep a short Cloak cooldown, if he or she wants (by taking a lighter weapon), and a duration-spec infiltrator can still Cloak and then cancel immediately. The strategic choice influences the value of your tactical choices, but doesn't exclude either one.

The Infiltrators with the greatest benefit from the unusual Cloak cooldown mechanic are damage-spec Infiltrators that load up with multiple heavy weapons, but that's balanced (to some degree) by the fact that it's a potentially very costly playstyle. Everyone else is experiencing small to no benefit from it. I just don't see it as a problem, and I genuinely don't understand your objection.

.458 wrote...

rmccowen wrote...

.458 wrote...

First of all, cloak doesn't work for cloak, at least hardly at all.

(snip)

This sounds like inexperience, to me.

(snip)

No, played it a lot. Also, I asked a developer. You don't have enough experience yourself it seems.

Right. You asked a developer, who told you Cloak doesn't work hardly at all, and that enemies can hear you clearly at any distance.

It's much more likely that you asked a developer, who gave you some interesting and valuable information that boils down to "the enemy has senses other than sight, and will use them to target you if he can". You processed that, and translated it into "Cloak doesn't work hardly at all".

In fact, it works fine, as long as you don't try to polka with a gang of Cerberus Troopers--or even if you do, provided you keep moving and evading fire until you're out of their detection range.

Again, if Cloak didn't work, the N7 Shadow would be utterly unable to function. The fact that she's actually quite effective means you're missing something.

Why do nerfers always seem to add details that were never said? But you know I had been replying to someone saying TC was all advantange and no disadvantage, and provides a FREE bonus!!! Yes, FREE!!! No, this is a quote, "free".  Then I was accused of being "one of those people" who play nothing but infiltrator...which is completely wrong, and the person KNEW that they did not know me, and that makes it outright malicious. Then when I mention what the disadvantages are, YOU claim I don't have enough experience. Then when I back up some of what I have said from information by a developer, YOU claim somehow I've misused it and basically can be ignored. So...which part are you justifying...that TC bonuses are FREE...that TC has no disadvantages...that the developer was wrong...that just because I confirmed some of my suspicions, that I must somehow be inexperienced or otherwise lying? I don't know, but that sounds a lot like snap judgements, not really listening, talking a lot, and pure emotion to harm something that other people enjoy. You tell me, what kind of person likes others to fail or be hurt just for their own entertainment? Oh, I know griefing does not apply here, but this is why people sometimes provide facts and counteraguments...because some people have other agendas besides honest comparisons. Now, please, answer those questions. And don't start by saying "I always play infiltrator" or "I don't know how infiltrator works".

[Chardonney]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

You, on the other hand, probably have no idea what I'm talkign about.  The only thing flashing through your mind is "Don't touch my Infiltrator!!!!1" It's really silly.

I fully understand what you're talking about. You really shouldn't go calling people you know nothing about stupid, even indirectly. It's about the game, nothing personal.

[rmccowen]

.458 wrote...

But you know I had been replying to someone saying TC was all advantange and no disadvantage, and provides a FREE bonus!!! Yes, FREE!!! No, this is a quote, "free".

I agree that the OP is wrong.

Then I was accused of being "one of those people" who play nothing but infiltrator...which is completely wrong, and the person KNEW that they did not know me, and that makes it outright malicious.

That wasn't me, so I can't speculate about his or her motives or reasoning.

Then when I mention what the disadvantages are, YOU claim I don't have enough experience.

Because you sounded remarkably inexperienced.

Then when I back up some of what I have said from information by a developer, YOU claim somehow I've misused it and basically can be ignored.

You essentially claimed that a developer told you "Cloak doesn't work... hardly at all." That's extremely unlikely; what's more likely is that the information found here is correct, and you either misunderstood or exaggerated.

So...which part are you justifying...that TC bonuses are FREE...that TC has no disadvantages...that the developer was wrong...that just because I confirmed some of my suspicions, that I must somehow be inexperienced or otherwise lying?

In order:
* It doesn't make any sense to talk about TC bonuses being "FREE", but I've addressed the OP at length, and I don't think his conclusions are correct.
* With that said, TC is an awfully good power with no drawbacks whatsoever.
* I never accused you of lying, but again, it doesn't seem very likely that a Bioware dev told you that Cloak doesn't actually conceal you from enemies.

don't know, but that sounds a lot like snap judgements, not really listening, talking a lot, and pure emotion to harm something that other people enjoy.

No, no, no, and no. I always read at least twice, and when I post, I do so slowly and carefully. I'm not sure what "pure emotion to harm something" is supposed to mean, but I'm pretty sure I haven't harmed anyone today, nor have I advocated harming anyone.

You tell me, what kind of person likes others to fail or be hurt just for their own entertainment? Oh, I know griefing does not apply here, but this is why people sometimes provide facts and counteraguments...because some people have other agendas besides honest comparisons.

Okay, one more time: you think Cloak is terrible at keeping enemies from targeting you, which is demonstratably untrue, and indicates either inexperience or ignorance. When challenged, you cite something a developer told you once. When challenged further, you answer with a wall of text that, in part, accuses me of putting words in your mouth, poor reading comprehension, an intent to harm, griefing, and a hidden agenda.

Just to be clear: I think you're wrong, and I said so. I didn't insult you, except perhaps by stating that you seemed inexperienced with Infiltrators--which, in context, was the more charitable of the two available assumptions. I think the OP doesn't understand Tactical Cloak very well, which (at least at the start of the thread) was fine because he or she seemed to be genuinely asking questions. You showed up arguing against the OP by way of the claim that "cloak doesn't work as cloak, at least hardly at all", which is also wrong.

Other than vague irritation, there's no particular emotion attached to my interaction with you in this thread. I don't have any agenda other than pointing out that someone is wrong on the Internet, and hopefully shining some light on the misconceptions and misunderstandings people still seem to harbor about Tactical Cloak even after months of gameplay.

If you think I'm not understanding you clearly, then think and write more clearly; I read and write highly technical documents for a living, and problems on my end are more likely due to over-interpretation than a casual or superficial reading. If you have "facts and counterarguments", then there's nothing preventing you from talking about them. If you think I'm putting words in your mouth, please point it out to me so that I can amend or retract those statements.

Did I answer your questions?

[lonefedaykin]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Why don't you try playing one of the many other classes in the game?  Almost exclusively playing with a single character is a good way to get a skewed point-of-view.

I actually do play with many characters/classes, so I have some understanding of the differences between them, including the differences between a damage-speced and a duration-speced infiltrator.  And this is what I noticed, as an example...

Play as damage-speced Geth Infiltrator w/ GPS.  Cloak, prox mine, fire until clip empty, reload.  You're ready to cloak again and repeat the process.  80% damage buff on multiple GPS shots + proxy mine = short cooldown.

Play as duration-speced infiltrator. Use full cloak duration for objective = long cooldown.

Basically, in the time it takes you to cloak for full duration and cooldown, you can do several cloak for damage + cooldown cycles.

I don't think you should be penalized for using duration to its full capability vs. using cloak for DPS to its full capability.

You, on the other hand, probably have no idea what I'm talkign about.  The only thing flashing through your mind is "Don't touch my Infiltrator!!!!1" It's really silly.

Forgive me for arriving a little late (to this half) of the discussion, but I'm not really sure what you are asking for with this thread. For a damage spec infiltrator or a duration spec infiltrator they can use TC exactly the same IF you treat it the same way. For example, if they both fire a weapon or a power right after cloaking is it not the same cooldown for both? The difference being that on  a duration Infiltrator you don't get the 80% damage buff, correct?

So really the the difference between the infiltrators is the tradeoff between greater damage and thus higher dps or greater survivability/utility? A damage spec infiltrator is assuming a greater risk as they go for a revive, an objective, or a "tactical repositioning." The duration Infiltrator trades this risk for greater survivability at the cost of a longer cooldown when TC is used for its full duration. This really is the case of higher risk = higher reward, but a duration Infiltrator can still cloak, fire, cloak, fire the exact same way a damage Infiltrator does.

To me it sounds like you are asking for a duration Infiltrator to be able to run across the map while under cloak, and be able to recloak after only a short cooldown. Do you really expect to cap an objective while under cloak and then turn around and cloak again to cap another one?

[sliverofamoon]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

dumael wrote...

Probably one of the many reasons why TC was brought in line with other powers/nerfed. Previous to that nerf, I had characters running with small negative cooldown bonus and didn't have to worry about cooldowns all that much. Now my damage-specced infiltrators are better off running with lighter weaponry.

With the current base duration, you really have to cloak->fire quickly to hit the minimum C/D while duration specced infiltrators have more lee-way but don't get such a large damage bonus.

It's mostly self correcting now as you can run with whatever weapons you want for damage spec, but if you don't immediately fire after cloaking -or- forget to use powers from cloak, your C/Ds can be longer than eternity.

Apparently the nerfducks still think TC is OP even after the nerf and our utility get slashed badly.

And this will continue as long as TC, biotics, or tech. powers are in the game. Many of them would be much happier of this were a Soldier only CoD, or BF shooter. The TC debate will NEVER end, AshT.

[rRNA]

Riotstean wrote...

Alijah Green wrote...

 

This^

[RGZ Archer]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

The cd evoltuion on tc matters alot, too bad you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of that the weight affects the time spent during cloak... is it that hard?

*edit*

I call bs on that idea, the damage bonus is a whole damn 1.5 seconds at the cost of minimun 3 seconds, a non duration spec has a very short window to not **** their cd up entirely, which starts after the damage window

Wtf is your problem with infiltrators people? should i call the adepts out for being able to explode so many enemys every 3 seconds with damage indepent of difficulty level? engineers for their ability to totally render any defense useless? what? eh?

sometimes i wonder how many of you got hit once too much on their head (or too less)

And you seem unable to grasp that most people don't use cloak for the "cloak" at all.

80%+ damage buff for 2 seconds AND use of a separate power with a potential 3 s cooldown is EXTREMELY powerful.  Especially when the cooldown begins at decloak, not at the end of the damage buff.

Most other characters are only capable of using a single power w/ a 3-second cooldown.  The Infiltrator effectively gets an 80% damage buff for free.

To kill a single mook. While the "most other characters" could pull off tech bursts and biotic bursts to wipe out a whole bunch of enemies in the time the infil takes to kill 2 mooks. And you are really only talking about TC working with proxmity mines. Try playing the other infiltrators that don't have a proximity mine.


Yeah, it's too OP for a class that's supposed to deal lots of damage to a single target to... well... do a lot of damage to a single target, apparently.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to self-detonate tech bursts, so let's not compare those.

And given the frequency with which biotics are dodged, miss, or are cancelled by other powers, let's not compare those either.

I'm comparing Infiltrators to the class the is supposed to be the pure damage specialist - the Soldier.  Other than the Destroyer, tell me why you think it makes sense for Soldiers to be more impacted by weapon weight than Infiltrators.

I usually avoid these discussions, but which Biotic Powers are you usn? Pull? I never have trouble hitting with Reave (since I have it set to AOE) Dark Channel, Warp, Throw...or anything I can think of outside of Nova, which I never use to begin with.

Really, people STILL think that TC is overpowere? I've gone through entire Plat matches without taking a single point of damage or ever leaving cover, and that was playing as a Fury, with three other Fury. All we did was spend twenty minutes behind a desk hitting triangle every 3 seconds.

Also note tha Reave can be STACKED. On Plat, it takes less than five seconds to kill a Banshee if you hit it with four Reaves, be they from multiple players or yourself. I have yet to see a team playing BE have any difficulty, if anything in this game is broken, THAT is it.

Tactical Cloak requires a lot of skill believe it or not. Sure, anyone can use the one second cloak shot buff, but that really doesnt help much when your entire team is dead and your stuck trying to hack, or escort, or activate/deactivate triggers. Yes they can kill stuff fast a lot of the time, but there are glaring weakpoints in the Infiltrator class as a whole AND with Tactical Cloak. These weakpoints dont exist with other classes.

Tech Bursts, yeah, they are harder to set up, but again you can get around that. Get one person with Overload set to hit three targets, and another with Energy Drain set to radious, and you can set them off all day long and mow through just about anything this game throws at you.

Really though, WHY do people keep bringing this kind of stupid topic up? Its CO-OP, you get the same points and the same money in the end. If anything I would expect people to be HAPPY that someone is giving them easy money and points (if there is anyone out there who still promotes characters).

[.458]

[quote]rmccowen wrote...

[quote].458 wrote...

But you know I had been replying to someone saying TC was all advantange and no disadvantage, and provides a FREE bonus!!! Yes, FREE!!! No, this is a quote, "free".[/quote]

I agree that the OP is wrong.

[quote]Then I was accused of being "one of those people" who play nothing but infiltrator...which is completely wrong, and the person KNEW that they did not know me, and that makes it outright malicious.[/quote]

That wasn't me, so I can't speculate about his or her motives or reasoning.

[quote]Then when I mention what the disadvantages are, YOU claim I don't have enough experience.[/quote]

Because you sounded remarkably inexperienced.
[/quote][/quote]

I just pay attention to details others might not. And I know from LOTS of experience that TC is not as great as it was being claimed. If I sounded inexperienced, then you have not been paying attention to the nuances.

[quote][quote]

[quote]Then when I back up some of what I have said from information by a developer, YOU claim somehow I've misused it and basically can be ignored.[/quote]

You essentially claimed that a developer told you "Cloak doesn't work... hardly at all." That's extremely unlikely; what's more likely is that the information found here is correct, and you either misunderstood or exaggerated.
[/quote][/quote]

"Essentially"? No. But someone is arguing about the perfection and free TC characteristics. There is no exaggeration or misunderstanding. The TC is NOT something you simply go invisible with. Often when it works, it is because someone else simply is attracting more attention...TC helps, it is NOT invisibility by a long shot. My information is 100% correct and on the nose.

[quote][quote]
[quote]So...which part are you justifying...that TC bonuses are FREE...that TC has no disadvantages...that the developer was wrong...that just because I confirmed some of my suspicions, that I must somehow be inexperienced or otherwise lying?[/quote]

In order:
* It doesn't make any sense to talk about TC bonuses being "FREE", but I've addressed the OP at length, and I don't think his conclusions are correct.
[/quote][/quote]

The OP wants it nerfed, but the OP does not really understand. Yet the OP has labels for people who argue against him, and snap judgements, without actually listening. This is why I am posting at all...those who do the actual nerfing tend to do so on emotion sometimes. It's a lot like the stock market, where emotions are not supposed to be the driving force, but often are. I want this game to remain enjoyable, and it is impossible to leave a post like the OP's unanswered with risking failure by doing nothing.

[quote][quote]
* With that said, TC is an awfully good power with no drawbacks whatsoever.
[/quote][/quote]

TC has drawbacks. If this were true that there is no drawback, let's disable shield regeneration on everyone. There are also comparisons possible for other classes, such as adrenaline rush or anything speeding up fire rate...while we're at it, we'll have to remove their ability to regenerate shields as well. Does that sound like no disadvantage? None? The best time of all to not be seen is when you're hurt and near death...TC stops healing. Am I wrong? Or is it going to be "well, that doesn't count, it isn't important enough"? Comments about noise giving it away should tell people that the grass isn't so green there.

[/quote][/quote]

[quote][quote]
* I never accused you of lying, but again, it doesn't seem very likely that a Bioware dev told you that Cloak doesn't actually conceal you from enemies.
[/quote][/quote]

Here's the deal...the only way for cloak to work as well as so many people think it works is to stand still, not move, not use any powers, etc. Here's a starting thread, now please stop telling me how unlikely it is, and stop rewording it:
http://social.biowar.../index/13287526

Bottom line, there are a lot of things that cause TC to fail, even if it is in place and running. Much of the success is not because it works well, but because other things are more important to the enemy at the time.

[quote][quote]
[quote]don't know, but that sounds a lot like snap judgements, not really listening, talking a lot, and pure emotion to harm something that other people enjoy.[/quote]

No, no, no, and no. I always read at least twice, and when I post, I do so slowly and carefully. I'm not sure what "pure emotion to harm something" is supposed to mean, but I'm pretty sure I haven't harmed anyone today, nor have I advocated harming anyone.
[/quote][/quote]

The OP has been making claims about TC and in favor of nerfing it...providing counterpoints results in remarks about personal character and emotional challenges. That's one hell of a way to get what the OP wants. Trying to hurt some quality of play through an abuse of process for nerf and claims about other people who the OP does not know is malice.

[quote][quote]
[quote]You tell me, what kind of person likes others to fail or be hurt just for their own entertainment? Oh, I know griefing does not apply here, but this is why people sometimes provide facts and counteraguments...because some people have other agendas besides honest comparisons.[/quote]

Okay, one more time: you think Cloak is terrible at keeping enemies from targeting you, which is demonstratably untrue, and indicates either inexperience or ignorance. When challenged, you cite something a developer told you once. When challenged further, you answer with a wall of text that, in part, accuses me of putting words in your mouth, poor reading comprehension, an intent to harm, griefing, and a hidden agenda.

Just to be clear: I think you're wrong, and I said so. I didn't insult you, except perhaps by stating that you seemed inexperienced with Infiltrators--which, in context, was the more charitable of the two available assumptions. I think the OP doesn't understand Tactical Cloak very well, which (at least at the start of the thread) was fine because he or she seemed to be genuinely asking questions. You showed up arguing against the OP by way of the claim that "cloak doesn't work as cloak, at least hardly at all", which is also wrong.

Other than vague irritation, there's no particular emotion attached to my interaction with you in this thread. I don't have any agenda other than pointing out that someone is wrong on the Internet, and hopefully shining some light on the misconceptions and misunderstandings people still seem to harbor about Tactical Cloak even after months of gameplay.

If you think I'm not understanding you clearly, then think and write more clearly; I read and write highly technical documents for a living, and problems on my end are more likely due to over-interpretation than a casual or superficial reading. If you have "facts and counterarguments", then there's nothing preventing you from talking about them. If you think I'm putting words in your mouth, please point it out to me so that I can amend or retract those statements.

Did I answer your questions?

[/quote]

TC has to be used correctly to keep from being targeted. TC in itself is not a magic bullet stop. To make it work requires understanding it, and knowing it has limitations. I'm just very irritated at all the claims of perfection that would harm the enjoyment of other people. If someone has to destroy someone else's enjoyment to have fun, it's time to become a hermit.