436 réponses à ce sujet

[gethinych]

death_for_sale wrote...

As always, excellent work GP.

Looking forward to the powers & characters sections.

[birdland 1115]

I'm a big believer in not looking too deeply into the numbers behind the game. Just experiment organically every now and again and promise you'll find a gun you love and you'll enjoy the game more for it.

[Atheosis]

I'd just like to point out that while I appreciate the premise of this thread, all these buffs do not excuse the overnerfing of weapons. Overnerfing is bad. Period. Just as overbuffing can be (P. Mine and Piranha being the only examples of overbuffing I can think of). The point is that BW needs to reign themselves in and stop coming out with these changes that hurt the balance of the game more than they help it. The Krysae and Typhon nerfs did absolutely nothing to improve the balance of the game unless you think balance and mediocrity are synonymous.

[Arppis]

It's a shame that you can't get 200% cooldown with Harrier anymore... but it's cool. It deserved some balancing, now it's totaly fine.

[Bennett311]

Great summary. Alot more (+) than (-). Community just seems to latch on to a weapon for too long realizing it's too OP, but afraid to admit it.

Balance is normal. deal with it.

[Cheylus]

Great work, thank you.

[jaydubs67]

DVS27t wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

DVS27t wrote...

The hurricane, percentage wise, one of the largest
buffs.  but the ROF+horrible accuracy effectively halves the 770+ DPS
(remember DPS only counts if bullets connect) unless you are firing from
the hip (which reduces DPS anyways).  

Isn't that only sniper rifles?    

Not from my testing.  I have tried it out with the carnifex, the harrier, the revenant (which is better because you at least hit **** with the no recoil hip fire "glitch?").  In every case, it took more bullets than when ADS.

Unusual.  Significant implications if true.  Will try to confirm or refute results later.  

[IrishDeath420]

I agree with balance to some degree, but each level of rarity should be better than the previous.
I believe the Piranha is too powerful, I'm just affraid they will do to it what they did to the Typhoon (which was too much)

[Atheosis]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Really? And how much did the buffs to the enemies via health/removal of weakspots/this new shield recharge mechanic nerf every gun and power in the game by?

Not as much as the Gear bonuses buffed them.  

... Oh of course. Doubling enemy health = my shields recharge 10% faster. I forgot.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Also, I'm honestly curious about this as I don't know the answer.

Do enemies who use the weapons that have been buffed (i.e.: Marauder with the Phaeston) gain the benefits of those weapon buffs? Or is "Enemy damage increased by x%" the only damage buffs they get?

[Rokayt]

Atheosis wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Really? And how much did the buffs to the enemies via health/removal of weakspots/this new shield recharge mechanic nerf every gun and power in the game by?

Not as much as the Gear bonuses buffed them.  

... Oh of course. Doubling enemy health = my shields recharge 10% faster. I forgot.

Those extra shield recharge bonuses can actually be rather game breaking on certain characters.

The Barrage gear is actually STRONGER then its respective consummable. (30% recoil reduction is both it and the Stabilization moduels III job. However... The barrage gear gives ammo capacity too.)

Extra genades totally dont allow you to take out small armies of foes every once and a while.

Modifié par Rokayt, 08 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

death_for_sale wrote...

Madeline Lightning wrote...

I don't know why they even need a score at the end. Removing that would solve everything. We aren't in competition but allied against the AI, trying to win as one. Nothing should have ever been nerfed, only bad things buffed up. If people are doing good, that's a good thing. We want to win. Some of us don't play in groups and because you can start a game with one person in gold, it should be treated as a 1 to 4 player balance change, not a constant 4 player balance change Eric Fagnan keeps basing it all on. I have favorite races or classes I like, or actually just characters. Some are just not viable for soloing, but should be. Many years from now this shooter will go down as the most mishandled, mismanaged co-op game of all time.

Removing the score would solve nothing. The issue is credits vs. difficulty.

What you are saying is that all weapons should be as viable as a Pre-balance Krysae, so bad weapons (ie starter weapons really) should be buffed to that level. Why not just give everyone infinite missile launchers on purpose? I mean, per your statements, you and all other players just want to win.

Just because you can start a game with one person doesn't mean you balance around that. You really have no concept of proper balance if you think that a co-op game should be balanced around solo players. Technically, no class should be viable for soloing in a co-op game, but players always find a way.

Many years from now players won't even remember this game and you are fooliing yourself if you think this is the most mishandled, mismanaged co-op game of all time. Every heard of Horizon, Matrix Online, Planetside, or a little game called SW: Galaxies?

Please point out to me where that was said, thank you.

[DVS27t]

Rokayt wrote...

DVS27t wrote...

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Oh come on now. You know damned
good and well that the buffs are minuscule but when they decide to nerf
something it gets neutered. Furthermore, BW continually refuses to buff
weapons that clearly need drastic changes to make them worth
consideration on anything above Bronze. Sure, Red John can take a level
1 Human Adept with a level 1 Eagle into Gold and breeze through it in
18 minutes solo, but that doesn't make the HA or the Eagle any less crap
for the average player.

BW needs to stop making adjustments
based on the best players with optimal setups and give the average
player something to work with.

No one has an eagle that does that level of damage, first of all.  The
Paladin does that DPS as a level 1 pistol. My eagle V with barrel mod V
does about 438 DPS (28 DPS more than an avenger which is known as one of
the worst guns in the game, but when talking about a buff, this number
is significant?  Ironic indeed).  The phaeston, another buffed weapon
that deals out 462 DPS at level 10 (my V version does 415 sustained with
barrel mod, 5 DPS more than an avenger X).  Why would you use that
compared to a harrier that deals out 772DPS at level 4?  Again, a
worthless buff.  The hurricane, percentage wise, one of the largest
buffs.  but the ROF+horrible accuracy effectively halves the 770+ DPS
(remember DPS only counts if bullets connect) unless you are firing from
the hip (which reduces DPS anyways).  

So the Hurricane, Paladin, Pirhana, and Talon are all terrible weapons whose DPS Buffs alone do not outshine all the DPS that has been lost then and there?

Alone?

How about the PPR, The Mattock, The Revenant (Which has tremendous sustained DPS and Stamina,) and the Saber?

Do remember, Hipfiring does not reduce damage directly, it only does this on sniper rifles that are not the Raptor.

What about the Tempest, Which has began shining as one of the brightest sidearms in the game?

Surely, The Phastron, The Locust, The Scimitar, and Avenger deserve more then they have gotten.

This does not mean the Buffance changes mean nothing.

Tempest is a 35 accuracy gun as well.. It's okay but definitely not a top side arm contender (with ultralight pistol mod released).  PPR is only good for headshots, a steaming pile otherwise. 

The revenant and mattock had to receive 3 different damage buffs to have some level of decency.  I would be okay with this if nerfs were done in the same fashion, bit by bit.  (saber was also buffed twice).  Had they made the proper change the first time, those other two times could have been focused on something else, they were not.

[Commander Castillo]

Someone has a little too much time on their hands

[Atheosis]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Also, I'm honestly curious about this as I don't know the answer.

Do enemies who use the weapons that have been buffed (i.e.: Marauder with the Phaeston) gain the benefits of those weapon buffs? Or is "Enemy damage increased by x%" the only damage buffs they get?

Enemy weapons may use many of the same models, but their stats are completely different.  Sometimes laughably so, as in the case of a Raptor on a Nemesis.

Modifié par Atheosis, 08 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[BjornDaDwarf]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Buffs that have made a significant difference: Talon, indra, hurricane. Paladin, kind of. The rest of the buffed weapon are still pretty poor after being buffed.

The Scorpion Weight buff and addition of Pistol ULM have made a significant difference.  Casters can now run a low to mid level Scorpion at a 200 percent CD, giving them an a lightweight AoE weapon with decent damage and consistent stagger.  

I'm starting to see the PPR show up in matches in the hands of good users, and it can be a monster.  I played a game with a regular BSN poster (totally randomly), and I was floored by how good it was.  Not just effective, but dominating. A 21 percent buff on a weapon with a built in modifier is huge.

The Viper is now to the Valiant what the Mantis is to the Widow, a good early sniping option for low level characters.  Not every gun needs to be Plat worthy. 

People still understimate how good the GPSMG can be on some classes.  And the buffs helped it out a lot. 

[Father_Jerusalem]

Atheosis wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Also, I'm honestly curious about this as I don't know the answer.

Do enemies who use the weapons that have been buffed (i.e.: Marauder with the Phaeston) gain the benefits of those weapon buffs? Or is "Enemy damage increased by x%" the only damage buffs they get?

Enemy weapons may use many of the same models, but their stats are completely different.  Sometimes laughably so, as in the case of a Raptor on a Nemesis.

Okay, thank you. As I said, I honestly wasn't sure and just wanted clarification.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Hey boss not sure if you've addressed this or not, but did you factor into your cute percentages the effects of enemy buffs?

If you did, you are a hero and I deserve a spanking. If you didn't you need to recalculate it all.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 08 août 2012 - 08:16 .

[Shortened]

Is there any chance of you doing a comparison of the weapon/power changes to the enemy faction's changes? e.g seeing if enemies have become more challenging than the current buffs to weapons/powers have been so far?

[DVS27t]

jaydubs67 wrote...

DVS27t wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

DVS27t wrote...

The hurricane, percentage wise, one of the largest
buffs.  but the ROF+horrible accuracy effectively halves the 770+ DPS
(remember DPS only counts if bullets connect) unless you are firing from
the hip (which reduces DPS anyways).  

Isn't that only sniper rifles?    

Not from my testing.  I have tried it out with the carnifex, the harrier, the revenant (which is better because you at least hit **** with the no recoil hip fire "glitch?").  In every case, it took more bullets than when ADS.

Unusual.  Significant implications if true.  Will try to confirm or refute results later.  

Definitely pay attention to where your shots go 3 chest + 1 head won't compare to 3 head + 1 chest (/captain obvious)

[Killahead]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Inb4 fanboy circle jerk - edit: appears I'm too late
.

Real mature. Because if someone says "good job organizing and presenting these facts" then they are fanboys, obviously. Come on, that kind of "argument" belongs in primary school. Actually, not even there.

[GodlessPaladin]

Atheosis wrote...

I'd just like to point out that while I appreciate the premise of this thread, all these buffs do not excuse the overnerfing of weapons. Overnerfing is bad. Period. Just as overbuffing can be

I agree completely.  Everything should be buffed or nerfed just the right amount.

This thread does not address that issue.  This thread addresses the claims of the extremely vocal, hysterical, alarmist, tinfoil-hat-wearing types who make dozens of threads claiming that, among other things, every gun is being turned into garbage (causing the game to be ruined utterly), and that there are constant nerfs and only minor buffs.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 août 2012 - 08:22 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Shortened wrote...

Is there any chance of you doing a comparison of the weapon/power changes to the enemy faction's changes? e.g seeing if enemies have become more challenging than the current buffs to weapons/powers have been so far?

Did we just become best friends?