436 réponses à ce sujet

[GodlessPaladin]

Rokayt wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

OP, why is the "Disciple" in bold text? Just mistagged or did you have notes to append to it?

Its probably him expressing his confusion with it. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

That's as good an explanation as any I suppose.  *Shrug*

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 août 2012 - 08:52 .

[RecoonHoodie]

By the way you must edit the first post with Piranha nerf. LOL

[Rokayt]

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way you must edit the first post with Piranha nerf. LOL

We have lost 4% of the original Pirhana!

RIOT.

[Grunt_Platform]

Madeline Lightning wrote...

sandboxgod wrote...

What gets me down about Bioware is that it appears they have not done sufficient testing. I do not understand why this game needs so many balance changes so often? Have they no vision?

Why are there sooooooo many weak guns. I still tried to bring some guns on my characters because I felt like it fit the lore. for example, I stocked my Asari Justicar Adept with all Asari guns (the shotgun and light pistol) and got kicked out the lobby ASAP. If this game didnt have so many weak guns this would not happen. I could just use whatever gun I felt fit my characters and their lore.

This is why I am very disappointed personally. I dont understand why guns need such drastic nerfs. they should be buffing all these weak guns so we don't get kicked out of lobbies ASAP when we try to bring them

I'm not exaggerating I've seen it time and time again (xbox btw)

it happens on the PC too. It's depressing.

My guess is that the loadout for Mass Effect 3 was originally designed and balanced for single player, where the enemeis have very different health totals, and the pace of the game is different. There was a multiplayer mass effect game that was scrapped too, and I'm just going to hazard a guess that ME3 MP was a relatively late addition to the game, aimed at testing the waters for future products. After all: Horde Mode is relatively easy to design.

Modifié par EvanKester, 08 août 2012 - 08:54 .

[Ben Gadura]

 Most buffs are so small they are irrelevant. Let's be honest here, how many of you use the phaeston, despite it being buffed that much? Here is a list of what changed realistically:
Collector Assault Rifle: i don't have it, but people say it is still crap.

Falcon: only worth using with ammo.Good for specific purposes though.

GPR (yeah it was a typo, sorry): still crap.

Mattock: was an awesome weapon before, even more awesome now.Few people use it because most like their fingers.

Phaeston: still crap.

Particle Rife: crap.

Revenant: good on two classes(destroyer and turian soldier). Worthless on any other class.

Saber: it became really good after the buff.It was decent before being buffed tough.

N7 Typhoon: too risky to use on anything but the destroyer after the nerfs...

Vindicator: must be the worst assault rifle in the game. And they even nerfed it's weight....

Incisor: worst weapon in the game, period.

Indra: started out as a useless UR, but after being buffed so many times it became worth of the UR label.

Javelin: still okay, but it is not worth using it over the semi-autos.

Krysae: everyone knows what happened to it...

Viper: horrible before the buff, still not worth using over a phalanx.

Arc Pistol: crap.

Carnifex: no difference basically.

Paladin: Much better, actually worth it's weight now.

Scorpion: still good.

Talon: originally it sucked, but after it got buffed it became one of the best shotguns in the game.

Hornet: useable before the weight buff, decent after it.

Hurricane: it was useless due to the recoil being ridicolous, but it got buffed twice and now it has an awesome dps.

Locust: second worst weapon in the game.

Shuriken: it's actually good, but many people overlook it.

Tempest: crap on anything else other than a Turian Soldier.

Crusader: crap... 

Eagle: this weapon seems like an insult to the playerbase.Really.

Eviscerator: mediocre, does nothing special.

Scimitar: crap.

Reegar: still good at cqc, and the weight nerf barely affected the classes that used it.

Wraith: crap (until you max it, then it weights much less).

Conclusion - Bioware usualy do small buffs that barely change anything (unless it is a UR weapon), then they suddenly buff something significantly, hyping up the players for the next possible big buff, and keeping a good part of the playerbase interested in playing at least until the next changes.

Modifié par Ben Gadura, 08 août 2012 - 09:01 .

[greghorvath]

Wow. That's a lot of work there GP. Kudos for the effort.

[GodlessPaladin]

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way you must edit the first post with Piranha nerf. LOL

It still has 40% more sustained damage than the Claymore and 29% more sustained damage than the unattainable Hurricane X.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 août 2012 - 08:56 .

[BjornDaDwarf]

Ashen Earth wrote...

I'm going to come right out and say it, I was using the Particle Rifle before the buff. It wasn't the buff that made the weapon so incredibly effective, it has always been effective with that setup.

It's more that people don't know how to make good builds. If the average player had even the slightest idea on how to make weapons like the Particle Rifle effective, the forum would never recover from the influx of nerf threads.

But a 21 percent buff to a good weapon does elevate it quite a bit.  That's no minor change.

And I still really want a PPR dangit.  I'm going to end up with a Javeline X before I pull one at the rate I'm going.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Ben Gadura wrote...

 Most buffs are so small they are irrelevant. Let's be honest here, how many of you use the phaeston, despite it being buffed that much? Here is a list of what changed realistically:
Collector Assault Rifle: i don't have it, but people say it is still crap.

Falcon: only worth using with ammo.Good for specific purposes though.

GPS: still crap.

Mattock: was an awesome weapon before, even more awesome now.Few people use it because most like their fingers.

Phaeston: still crap.

Particle Rife: crap.

Revenant: good on two classes(destroyer and turian soldier). Worthless on any other class.

Saber: it became really good after the buff.It was decent before being buffed tough.

N7 Typhoon: too risky to use on anything but the destroyer after the nerfs...

Vindicator: must be the worst assault rifle in the game. And they even nerfed it's weight....

Incisor: worst weapon in the game, period.

Indra: started out as a useless UR, but after being buffed so many times it became worth of the UR label.

Javelin: still okay, but it is not worth using it over the semi-autos.

Krysae: everyone knows what happened to it...

Viper: horrible before the buff, still not worth using over a phalanx.

Arc Pistol: crap.

Carnifex: no difference basically.

Paladin: Much better, actually worth it's weight now.

Scorpion: still good.

Talon: originally it sucked, but after it got buffed it became one of the best shotguns in the game.

Hornet: useable before the weight buff, decent after it.

Hurricane: it was useless due to the recoil being ridicolous, but it got buffed twice and now it has an awesome dps.

Locust: second worst weapon in the game.

Shuriken: it's actually good, but many people overlook it.

Tempest: crap on anything else other than a Turian Soldier.

Crusader: crap... 

Eagle: this weapon seems like an insult to the playerbase.Really.

Eviscerator: mediocre, does nothing special.

Scimitar: crap.

Reegar: still good at cqc, and the weight nerf barely affected the classes that used it.

Wraith: crap (until you max it, then it weights much less).

Conclusion - Bioware usualy do small buffs that barely change anything (unless it is a UR weapon), then they suddenly buff something significantly, hyping up the players for the next possible big buff, and keeping a good part of the playerbase interested in playing at least until the next changes.

So many weapons you dismiss are in fact good.

[Ben Gadura]

death_for_sale wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Ben Gadura wrote...

 Most buffs are so small they are irrelevant. Let's be honest here, how many of you use the phaeston, despite it being buffed that much? Here is a list of what changed realistically:
Collector Assault Rifle: i don't have it, but people say it is still crap.

Falcon: only worth using with ammo.Good for specific purposes though.

GPS: still crap.

Mattock: was an awesome weapon before, even more awesome now.Few people use it because most like their fingers.

Phaeston: still crap.

Particle Rife: crap.

Revenant: good on two classes(destroyer and turian soldier). Worthless on any other class.

Saber: it became really good after the buff.It was decent before being buffed tough.

N7 Typhoon: too risky to use on anything but the destroyer after the nerfs...

Vindicator: must be the worst assault rifle in the game. And they even nerfed it's weight....

Incisor: worst weapon in the game, period.

Indra: started out as a useless UR, but after being buffed so many times it became worth of the UR label.

Javelin: still okay, but it is not worth using it over the semi-autos.

Krysae: everyone knows what happened to it...

Viper: horrible before the buff, still not worth using over a phalanx.

Arc Pistol: crap.

Carnifex: no difference basically.

Paladin: Much better, actually worth it's weight now.

Scorpion: still good.

Talon: originally it sucked, but after it got buffed it became one of the best shotguns in the game.

Hornet: useable before the weight buff, decent after it.

Hurricane: it was useless due to the recoil being ridicolous, but it got buffed twice and now it has an awesome dps.

Locust: second worst weapon in the game.

Shuriken: it's actually good, but many people overlook it.

Tempest: crap on anything else other than a Turian Soldier.

Crusader: crap... 

Eagle: this weapon seems like an insult to the playerbase.Really.

Eviscerator: mediocre, does nothing special.

Scimitar: crap.

Reegar: still good at cqc, and the weight nerf barely affected the classes that used it.

Wraith: crap (until you max it, then it weights much less).

Conclusion - Bioware usualy do small buffs that barely change anything (unless it is a UR weapon), then they suddenly buff something significantly, hyping up the players for the next possible big buff, and keeping a good part of the playerbase interested in playing at least until the next changes.

So many weapons you dismiss are in fact good.

I pretty much ignored everything past the point where he called the GPS crap.

Hey, that was a typo! Thanks for spotting it.

[dysturbed0ne]

If you truly want to put an end to the endless buff vs nerf.....remove the scores. I played BL's hoard mode and coop missions. I don't remember ever worrying about how much better someone else did, as long as we finished. This NEVER came up because completing the waves was the only objective. Take away the score, which serves no purpose anyway, and you solve a ton of issues.

Start mission
Complete wave 1 - 11
Extraction
Experience and credits

Completely useless players will be obvious, you shouldn't need a score to tell you that.


edit: (sp)

Modifié par dysturbed0ne, 08 août 2012 - 09:04 .

[Lord Rosario]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

RecoonHoodie wrote...

By the way you must edit the first post with Piranha nerf. LOL

It still has 40% more sustained damage than the Claymore and 29% more sustained damage than the unattainable Hurricane X.

A 40% or even 30% nerf would still be too much for the Piranha thanks to it's lower accuracy in my opinion. I'd say a 10% nerf after reverting it's origional *buff would be plenty.

Edit: The nerf they just did to the Piranha is fine for example.

Modifié par Lord Rosario, 08 août 2012 - 09:06 .

[UKStory135]

death_for_sale wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Ben Gadura wrote...

 Most buffs are so small they are irrelevant. Let's be honest here, how many of you use the phaeston, despite it being buffed that much? Here is a list of what changed realistically:
Collector Assault Rifle: i don't have it, but people say it is still crap.

Falcon: only worth using with ammo.Good for specific purposes though.

GPS: still crap.

Mattock: was an awesome weapon before, even more awesome now.Few people use it because most like their fingers.

Phaeston: still crap.

Particle Rife: crap.

Revenant: good on two classes(destroyer and turian soldier). Worthless on any other class.

Saber: it became really good after the buff.It was decent before being buffed tough.

N7 Typhoon: too risky to use on anything but the destroyer after the nerfs...

Vindicator: must be the worst assault rifle in the game. And they even nerfed it's weight....

Incisor: worst weapon in the game, period.

Indra: started out as a useless UR, but after being buffed so many times it became worth of the UR label.

Javelin: still okay, but it is not worth using it over the semi-autos.

Krysae: everyone knows what happened to it...

Viper: horrible before the buff, still not worth using over a phalanx.

Arc Pistol: crap.

Carnifex: no difference basically.

Paladin: Much better, actually worth it's weight now.

Scorpion: still good.

Talon: originally it sucked, but after it got buffed it became one of the best shotguns in the game.

Hornet: useable before the weight buff, decent after it.

Hurricane: it was useless due to the recoil being ridicolous, but it got buffed twice and now it has an awesome dps.

Locust: second worst weapon in the game.

Shuriken: it's actually good, but many people overlook it.

Tempest: crap on anything else other than a Turian Soldier.

Crusader: crap... 

Eagle: this weapon seems like an insult to the playerbase.Really.

Eviscerator: mediocre, does nothing special.

Scimitar: crap.

Reegar: still good at cqc, and the weight nerf barely affected the classes that used it.

Wraith: crap (until you max it, then it weights much less).

Conclusion - Bioware usualy do small buffs that barely change anything (unless it is a UR weapon), then they suddenly buff something significantly, hyping up the players for the next possible big buff, and keeping a good part of the playerbase interested in playing at least until the next changes.

So many weapons you dismiss are in fact good.

I pretty much ignored everything past the point where he called the GPS crap.

I think he meant either the GPSMG or the GPR.

[Bechter]

Ashen Earth wrote...

I'm going to come right out and say it, I was using the Particle Rifle before the buff. It wasn't the buff that made the weapon so incredibly effective, it has always been effective with that setup.

It's more that people don't know how to make good builds. If the average player had even the slightest idea on how to make weapons like the Particle Rifle effective, the forum would never recover from the influx of nerf threads.

This coming from the guy who told me the Pirahna was "the worst gun in the game game" a few days after its release.

[robarcool]

I would suggest to put in enemy buffs as well to reveal more about the balance changes. The weapon buffs are there, but so are the enemy buff (cough, geth).

[UKStory135]

Am I the only person that considers a 0.25 weight increase a major deal? That is the difference between a caster using a weapon or not. It is also the difference between a Sniper Infiltrator using the gun as a side arm or not.

[GodlessPaladin]

robarcool wrote...

I would suggest to put in enemy buffs as well to reveal more about the balance changes. The weapon buffs are there, but so are the enemy buff (cough, geth).

The enemy buffs aren't very big.  Heck, Reapers haven't gotten any buffs at all. 

Also notable is that enemy numbers don't fit together cleanly with the math for weapon numbers.  What you actually care about are things like thresholds and formations.  But really, I don't see it particularly necessary to go through all that considering that if you actually thought the enemy buffs mattered, you could just play against Reapers instead, who haven't gotten buffed at all.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 août 2012 - 09:21 .

[Ben Gadura]

UKStory135 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Ben Gadura wrote...

 Most buffs are so small they are irrelevant. Let's be honest here, how many of you use the phaeston, despite it being buffed that much? Here is a list of what changed realistically:
Collector Assault Rifle: i don't have it, but people say it is still crap.

Falcon: only worth using with ammo.Good for specific purposes though.

GPS: still crap.

Mattock: was an awesome weapon before, even more awesome now.Few people use it because most like their fingers.

Phaeston: still crap.

Particle Rife: crap.

Revenant: good on two classes(destroyer and turian soldier). Worthless on any other class.

Saber: it became really good after the buff.It was decent before being buffed tough.

N7 Typhoon: too risky to use on anything but the destroyer after the nerfs...

Vindicator: must be the worst assault rifle in the game. And they even nerfed it's weight....

Incisor: worst weapon in the game, period.

Indra: started out as a useless UR, but after being buffed so many times it became worth of the UR label.

Javelin: still okay, but it is not worth using it over the semi-autos.

Krysae: everyone knows what happened to it...

Viper: horrible before the buff, still not worth using over a phalanx.

Arc Pistol: crap.

Carnifex: no difference basically.

Paladin: Much better, actually worth it's weight now.

Scorpion: still good.

Talon: originally it sucked, but after it got buffed it became one of the best shotguns in the game.

Hornet: useable before the weight buff, decent after it.

Hurricane: it was useless due to the recoil being ridicolous, but it got buffed twice and now it has an awesome dps.

Locust: second worst weapon in the game.

Shuriken: it's actually good, but many people overlook it.

Tempest: crap on anything else other than a Turian Soldier.

Crusader: crap... 

Eagle: this weapon seems like an insult to the playerbase.Really.

Eviscerator: mediocre, does nothing special.

Scimitar: crap.

Reegar: still good at cqc, and the weight nerf barely affected the classes that used it.

Wraith: crap (until you max it, then it weights much less).

Conclusion - Bioware usualy do small buffs that barely change anything (unless it is a UR weapon), then they suddenly buff something significantly, hyping up the players for the next possible big buff, and keeping a good part of the playerbase interested in playing at least until the next changes.

So many weapons you dismiss are in fact good.

I pretty much ignored everything past the point where he called the GPS crap.

I think he meant either the GPSMG or the GPR.

Yeah, the GPR actually.

[rmccowen]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And what are the percentages of those buffs, and in comparison to the buffs/nerfs of weapons?

[EDIT: Most balance changes to enemies are tiered; the values below are the Gold changes.]

Assuming my math is right, and going off the list posted upthread (with a bit of spot-checking):

Geth Trooper: +16.7% damage, +10% health
Geth Pyro: +30% damage, +56% shields; reduced chance to evade
Geth Hunter: +20% health, +50% shields; increased movement speed while cloaked, decreased aiming delay
Geth Prime: Reduced likelihood of being staggered
Atlas: +25% shields, +36.3% armor; more frequent sync kills, shots per cannon burst increased from 3 to 4
Centurion: +10.2% health; likes to approach closer, shield recharge delay decreased
Guardian: +20% health
Cerberus Turret: +16.6% health, +16.6% shields
Nemesis: +16.6% health, +15% shields

As you can see, only Pyros, Hunters, and the Atlas really got scarier, and some units didn't get buffed at all. Pyros and Atlases were the only units that got damage bonuses (with an effective 25% boost for one of the attacks of the Atlas)--so most of the changes are just making enemies last slightly longer in a firefight.

I find it particularly interesting to look at these changes with a gear-generated 15% bonus to player damage in mind as a crude baseline for power creep: with a bit of wiggle room, most units are keeping pace with us, or have actually lost ground. Again, only the Pyro, Hunter, and Atlas have grown substantially tougher than they were relative to the PCs.

Modifié par rmccowen, 08 août 2012 - 09:18 .

[Ashen One]

cameron_bech wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I'm going to come right out and say it, I was using the Particle Rifle before the buff. It wasn't the buff that made the weapon so incredibly effective, it has always been effective with that setup.

It's more that people don't know how to make good builds. If the average player had even the slightest idea on how to make weapons like the Particle Rifle effective, the forum would never recover from the influx of nerf threads.

This coming from the guy who told me the Pirahna was "the worst gun in the game game" a few days after its release.

I dislike the gun in general because of it's ****** poor accuracy. "Worst gun in the game"? Maybe not, but it is worthless without a smart choke, or at least an accuracy boosting passive ability.

It works fine on some classes, but there are seriously better options for the majority of them.

Well, maybe not if you play Platinum, or Reapers/Gold exclusively where everything is so obnoxiously large that the Piranha's theoretical DPS is actually a reality because all of the pellets hit.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 08 août 2012 - 09:22 .

[megabeast37215]

GP.... hats off to you bro. A fantastic post... one that will be referenced to put angry kiddies in their place whenever a nerf happens.

[Shampoohorn]

UKStory135 wrote...

Am I the only person that considers a 0.25 weight increase a major deal? That is the difference between a caster using a weapon or not. It is also the difference between a Sniper Infiltrator using the gun as a side arm or not.

A reduction in weapn cooldown bonus from 200 to 175 results in about a 7% change in actual recharge time due to the equation Bioware uses.  You don't really see an equivalency between penalties and recharge time until your weapon bonus is around 50.  That's when a 0.25 weight increase approaches a 25% recharge penalty.

Since casters are usually close to 200% anyways, it's not as big a deal as it appears.

[mpompeo27]

one of the best posts ever. i still oppose nerfs in general, but that you for showing that the nerfs we haven't gotten really aren't that horrible.

This thread should get bumped on an hourly basis.

[GodlessPaladin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

cameron_bech wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I'm going to come right out and say it, I was using the Particle Rifle before the buff. It wasn't the buff that made the weapon so incredibly effective, it has always been effective with that setup.

It's more that people don't know how to make good builds. If the average player had even the slightest idea on how to make weapons like the Particle Rifle effective, the forum would never recover from the influx of nerf threads.

This coming from the guy who told me the Pirahna was "the worst gun in the game game" a few days after its release.

I dislike the gun in general because of it's ****** poor accuracy. "Worst gun in the game"? Maybe not, but it is worthless without a smart choke, or at least an accuracy boosting passive ability.

It works fine on some classes, but there are seriously better options.

Well, maybe not if you play Platinum, or Reapers/Gold exclusively where everything is so obnoxiously large that the Piranha's theoretical DPS is actually a reality because all of the pellets hit.

I have no trouble hitting with it against Geth or Cerberus either.  You should be taking advantage of its unique and utterly predictable spread shape to maximize its coverage and hit multiple enemies at a time.  This means aiming down and off to the side of enemies (ideally between multiple enemies) if you're not at close range.  I find it to be a top of the line choice on pretty much every character.  It's like a rapid-fire Claymore-and-a-half that you don't need to aim.  And has the weight of a feather.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 08 août 2012 - 09:26 .