83 réponses à ce sujet

[Saberchic]

I remember quite a few posts asking for DA2 to be darker. They didn't think DAO was dark enough. Then DA2 came out and people complained about how depressing it was (I'm in this group).

I rather thought that DAO had a good balance. No ending was without some sort of catch, but there was a silver lining somewhere in the epilogue, even if you "messed up" and made a bad call.

DA2 had me depressed. I wondered why the heck Hawke was in Kirkwall when all this craziness was going on, especially after Leandra's death and after whatever fate befell Carver or Bethany--crazy Chantry priests, abusive templars, crazy mages, Hawke's ridiculous inactivity, etc. I didn't have that good feeling I get after I finish a game. Yeah, you left with your LI, but so what? That wasn't good enough for me. I felt like I was running away.

Then comes ME3--a different team altogether I know, but the ending pretty much was grim no matter what you chose.

The direction of Bioware seems to be "let's put out a dark, gritty game." So I guess what I'm asking is how dark do you want the next game to be? And what is a good balance?

For me, I like some angst and darkness, but if the game has that tone, I need it to finish on high note so that I don't feel like complete crap afterwards.

[Xilizhra]

I thought that DA2 ended on a positive note, but I'm a bit weird and consider beginning the rebellion to be a worthy end in and of itself. That said, I consider DAO to have a good balance as well.

[OwaisofSpades]

I liked that DA:O had some dark elements such as what was going on between the werewolves and the elves and the choices you had to make in the Deep Roads. I also liked that there was a "happy" ending that tied everything (well mostly) up. I thinks that wha they should go for. ME3 and DA2 had way too many loose ends at the end

[CelestJP]

to dark and it just ruins the series cough fail effect 3 cough as long as my character does not scripted killed in a rather badly written ending its ok i guess

[thats1evildude]

Nizaris1 wrote...

In DA2 is worse...none of the demon even scare me...in DA:O at least Desire Demon does look like satanic image in my mind, but DA2 with anime looking demons and abominations...

The demons and abominations in DAO and DA2 look exactly the same.

Here's a pride demon from DAO:



Here's a pride demon from DA2:



The only difference is lighting.

Here's a desire demon in DAO:



Here's a desire demon in DA2:

Modifié par thats1evildude, 09 août 2012 - 08:33 .

[EricHVela]

If the next Dragon Age starts after the second Dragon Age (likely I think), I do not see how it cannot start "dark". Everyone's angry. Everyone's afraid. Lots of people are panicking. War is not a pleasant thing for anyone (including those trying to stay out of it).

How dark? I'd say like "perfect storm at night" dark. Tumultuous, fierce, frightening, dangerous, unpredictable, everyone seeking shelter and hiding, nearly everyone looking out for themselves, everyone blaming everyone and everything else. Essentially, blind, deafened, miserable, wet, cold, scared, angry people.

Will that happen? I think, likely not. It'll likely be a straight-foward fight with no twists, turns, suprises or anything all that interesting. It'll just be mage vs. templar pt. 2. It'll try to appeal to those who couldn't care less about story and only care about epeening at other people. Microsoft and EA currently seem to favor that.

[CELL55]

Darkness can only be appreciated when there is light to contrast it. Without hope, depressing and grim turn into apathy. This is why I feel DA2 failed in several regards. You can't save one of your siblings. You can't save your mom. You can't stop Sister Petrice until it is too late. You can't avert conflict with the Qunari. You can't prevent Anders from blowing up the Chantry. You can't avoid fighting both Orsino and Meredith. For a game series and a game publisher that is supposedly all about player freedom and choice, there seemed to be remarkably little of it in DA2. I know that videogames must by their very nature have some element of railroading, but in DA2 it felt like the railroad tracks were very visible and without any branching paths.
I think one of the major reasons that I play RPGs is for meaningful choices and a sense of accomplishment. But I didn't see any meaningful choices, and I damn sure didn't feel like I accomplished anything.
I guess my main problem was that Hawke was important, but not essential. The plot most likely would have occurred without Hawke's interference, and so I only every felt like a passenger along for the ride, rather than an active participant.

[AbsoluteApril]

as Varric says "Well, it's not a good story unless the hero dies."

[Dave of Canada]

Civil war in Orlais, Mages and Templar fighting, Chantry collapsing, Qunari planning to invade, Flemeth doing her thing. It better be dark.

[Pzykozis]

I dont think it necessarily needs to be darker than DA2 though that'd be appreciated things should have more impact though... a lot of things happen or are implied but they kind of get glossed over or never get mentioned again. Sure this isn't a game about the exploration of a man/woman destroyed by seeing their mother cut into chunks and essentially sown together still walking and talking but I'd have thunk it'd effect stuff abit more, guess its kinda the problem of having the character abit more open to whatever the player wants rather than y'know Hawke developing PTSD.

Dealing with the complex issues is better to me than them simply happening and being forgotten about.

[Maria Caliban]

thats1evildude wrote...

The demons and abominations in DAO and DA2 look exactly the same.

Here's a desire demon in DAO:



Here's a desire demon in DA2:

The desire demon's face has quite a number of changes. Though it's very possibly you're not looking at the face, which is why you didn't notice.

[Eternal Phoenix]

What you (OP) described isn't really dark. It's depressing. I didn't find DA2 to be dark or depressing (although the All That Remains quest was dark and horrific) rather I found it to be dull. Dragon Age: Origins had a dark theme and this was because of the issues and subjects that were brought up.

For one you were faced with two instances of a possessed child and you could choose to kill the child to destroy the demon within them or go through an alternative route. With Connor, the alternative route leads to the death of someone else. Then of course you could be really evil and have sex with the demon, learn blood magic and leave the demon in his body or you could even kill him just because.

The City Elf origin allowed you to leave your fiance and cousin to get raped in return for gold. You could then return and kill off the rest of your own family/friends via a blood magic ritual in order to get power or alternatively you could sell them as slaves in return for gold.

You could pretty much kill off EVERY companion and play with them. For example you could romance Leliana, tell her that you love her and then destroy the Ashes of Andraste resulting in you having to kill her. You could also slay people numerous times for no good reason. For exmaple you could kill the elf messenger in the Ostagar camp:

 

Now consider that elf's background. He's poor, he's abused, he gets racist insults hurled at him and then you come along and slay him for no good reason.

Abominations were in Dragon Age 2? True but they never had the same horrific factor as they did in Dragon Age: Origins were they corrupted the Circle of Magi and horrible disgusting growths began growing within the tower:



Also I don't remember this grotesque abominations appearing Dragon Age 2:

 

And these disgusting creatures never appeared in Dragon Age 2 either:

 

 

So I guess even nudity made it into Dragon Age: Origins just not on the person we wanted to see nude...

I'm getting quite sick of people saying Dragon Age: Origins wasn't dark fantasy. The creatures related to dark fantasy, the enviroments (most of them) releated to dark fantasy and the subjects brought up in the game were dark and releated to dark fantasy.


Not dark fantasy. -- Guy who has no idea what he's talking about.


Killing a demon possessed child. Not dark fantasy. --- Gal who is spewing stuff from her anus.


Not dark fantasy. --- Todd Howard of Bethesda.


Not dark fantasy. --- Mr.Idiot

 
Not dark fantasy. --- Jake.


Not dark fantasy. --- Peter Molyneux

Dragon Age: Origins is dark fantasy. End of story. 

[Eternal Phoenix]

In conclusion, Dragon Age 3 BETTER be dark. I want more quests like the All that Remains quests. More quests fighting against horrific demons that can possess people. More darkspawn that resemble the broodmothers but are even worst and I want mature subjects dealt with along with difficult decisions (grey choices such as killing Connor or not) to come back.

Lastly I would like for DA3 to have a realistic artstyle which makes monsters look gruesome and horrifying rather than cute like DA2 made the darkspawn shrieks.

No more of this:
 
And no more of this:

 
I don't want the Green Goblin and The Incredible Hulk appearing in the next DA game.

I want darkspawn to look as hideous and as disgusting as this:

 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 09 août 2012 - 05:55 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I hope its not too dark, I want to be able to see what I'm playing.

[berelinde]

If they get rid of the clownspawn and go back to scary hurlocks, it might help.

[macrocarl]

I hope they mix it up a bit, I loved DA2 a lot but I'd like to see more funny.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Though it's very possibly you're not looking at the face

They have faces? Oh ho ho.

Uhm, to be more serious. Dragon Age 2 was quite depressing as a game, not because it was "dark", but merely because of circumstances being taken out of your control. In fact, when it comes to the "dark" aspects of Dragon Age 2, the entire thing is quite comical.

The Mage and Templar divide in Dragon Age Origins *was* dark, at least in my opinion. Innocent Mages were effectively oppressed, as far as we knew, put through a grueling trial and forced to face a Demon before they would be accepted. Made tranquil if they became a danger.

Dragon Age 2 focused almost entirely on the Mage and Templar conflict, but the way it was handled, by comparison, was just...... Prrrffftt. That's the only way i can put it. Everyone turned into a wacko, it was like strolling around a funny farm.

Sure, it was a bit of a twist the first time a Mage you had previously saved turned up spewing bile and gushing blood, screaming bloody murder in your face, but come on... *Everyone* in the game turned utterly wacko. That's not dark, or gritty, that's just plain funny.

I don't necessarily need a "dark" or "gritty" game, i just need one that takes itself seriously. The series already has dark aspects in it, conflicts and divides that could easily be turned into fantastic story.

Thedas has barriers between everything, brewing conflicts waiting to explode. It has the Elves looked down upon as "lessers", it has Mages imprisoned for no crimes, it has power-hungry conquerors seeking all out war. It has Demons that are looking to inhabit anybody that has power, and it has Spirits that abhor them.

Even the worlds within Dragon Age are in constant conflict. Thedas and the Fade, divided by the smallest barrier that is already prone to tearing. Conflict and Oppression are the two most dominate aspects of Thedas, both of which can offer the opportunity for dark, gritty, mature, interesting story telling.

The game doesn't have to be designed as dark and gritty. There's already aspects in it that will be gritty, regardless of if it's highlighted or not.

My only hope is that Bioware would take all this conflict and do something serious with it.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 09 août 2012 - 06:03 .

[Vox Draco]

Elton John is dead wrote...
For one you were faced with two instances of a possessed child and you could choose to kill the child to destroy the demon within them or go through an alternative route. With Connor, the alternative route leads to the death of someone else. Then of course you could be really evil and have sex with the demon, learn blood magic and leave the demon in his body or you could even kill him just because.

Dragon Age: Origins is dark fantasy. End of story. 

Or you could just take the alternative alternative, ask the mages for help and save everyone, including Connor, Eamon and his mom + Jowan, if you like. That's what I love about DAO in contrast to DA2 (and parts of ME3...*cough*). The third way out...very few things are determined to end extremley evil and bad, often you can avoid the most harm done...like saving the elves and return the werewolves to humans, the dark ritual of Morrigan, Connor

But I agree, DAO is dark by all means! The entire premise of the Darkspawn, what they are? Their origin alone is so disgusting, so saddening it made me want to puke and cry, thinking about how horrible it must be for a female to become a brood-mother, or any living being succumbing to the taint...

Or the fact how golems were made, and what they basically are...that's pretty dark for me. Bloodmagic, the evil Andraste-Cultists, possessed children and the whole circle of mages almost wiped out by demons. Speaking of this, the whole concept of demons preying on the living, using their "weaknesses" like pride and desire to possess them and materialize in our world is quite dark as well...

Yet it is balanced by our actions, our input in the game. the more we care and look for a third way out, the more we can make things a little better. And it feels way more satisfying to rescue the whole Eamon-family than sacrificing someone...

So in regards to DA3...just keep the tone of a medieval fantasy world full of racism, abuse, violence, religious fanatism, evil demons lurking in our dreams and worse, but let our protagonists and their actions make a difference, let them be the sparkle of hope if we want to have this..

And never, ever force us players to witness our protagonist end in a pile of rubble, alone and abandoned...let us defeat the darkness for a while at least on OUR terms, so we end the game on a high note...with the craving for sequels and DLCs....

[shadow-warlord]

Personally i would like DA3 to be darker but that depends on what darker means...

For Bioware it seems to be more blood, undead etc

For me darker means a dark atmoshpere, a combination of visuals,music and mostly story..
Storytelling is very important for a dark game...

When i know that there's going to be nothing unexpected in the main plot itself but only in it's sub-quests i simply don't care. When i know i'm doing quests for a predetermined finale with no surprises, i don't care..
When i know my companions are going to give me a quest halfway through and then become puppets, i don't care.

Even the so called "dark" choices have become cliche...
The only way to make a game dark is to make the gamer care for the game and the consequences.

A good game for "dark" inspiration is the WItcher( mostly 1 but also 2) at least as a concept.
The story needs to be unexpected with no go to these 4 places and then boom the finale happens...

Bioware once defined the story-RPG genre.
But after so many years it's stale.
I wish they try something completely innovating, which redefines the RPG genre and possibly includes greater immersion in story, more realistic characters, tons of interaction with companions, etc

The technology is there now( or will be when next gen consoles come) so BIoware needs to stop playing it safe and just go for it...embrace new ideas.

Maybe with DA, maybe with a new IP...

Sorry for the rant...

[Sylvanpyxie]

sinister

Hespith was captured by Darkspawn. Imprisoned. She watched her fellows be force fed Darkspawn bile and dwarven flesh. She, herself, was also fed Darkspawn bile and dwarven flesh. She witnessed her friends transforming into monsters, birthing factories for the most evil, tainted and tormented creatures in all of Thedas. All the while she remained sane enough to know that the exact same transformation would happen to her.

And that's not sinister...?

Each their own i guess.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 09 août 2012 - 07:41 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Vox Draco wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
For one you were faced with two instances of a possessed child and you could choose to kill the child to destroy the demon within them or go through an alternative route. With Connor, the alternative route leads to the death of someone else. Then of course you could be really evil and have sex with the demon, learn blood magic and leave the demon in his body or you could even kill him just because.

Dragon Age: Origins is dark fantasy. End of story. 

Or you could just take the alternative alternative, ask the mages for help and save everyone, including Connor, Eamon and his mom + Jowan, if you like. That's what I love about DAO in contrast to DA2 (and parts of ME3...*cough*). The third way out...very few things are determined to end extremley evil and bad, often you can avoid the most harm done...like saving the elves and return the werewolves to humans, the dark ritual of Morrigan, Connor

But I agree, DAO is dark by all means! The entire premise of the Darkspawn, what they are? Their origin alone is so disgusting, so saddening it made me want to puke and cry, thinking about how horrible it must be for a female to become a brood-mother, or any living being succumbing to the taint...

Or the fact how golems were made, and what they basically are...that's pretty dark for me. Bloodmagic, the evil Andraste-Cultists, possessed children and the whole circle of mages almost wiped out by demons. Speaking of this, the whole concept of demons preying on the living, using their "weaknesses" like pride and desire to possess them and materialize in our world is quite dark as well...

Yet it is balanced by our actions, our input in the game. the more we care and look for a third way out, the more we can make things a little better. And it feels way more satisfying to rescue the whole Eamon-family than sacrificing someone...

So in regards to DA3...just keep the tone of a medieval fantasy world full of racism, abuse, violence, religious fanatism, evil demons lurking in our dreams and worse, but let our protagonists and their actions make a difference, let them be the sparkle of hope if we want to have this..

And never, ever force us players to witness our protagonist end in a pile of rubble, alone and abandoned...let us defeat the darkness for a while at least on OUR terms, so we end the game on a high note...with the craving for sequels and DLCs....

I had no problem with the Great Sacrifice ending in Dragon Age: Origins (one of my favourite endings actually) but so long as there's multiple endings then I'm happy. That's another thing Dragon Age 2 lacked.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I don't have DLC that is why i don't mention Sophia...but other than Desire Demon, none in DA world are scary...hideous looking and ugliness doesn't mean scary and doesn't make it dark.

what dark for me is...sinister...

Like Hawke mom scene...that is sinister...not all the demons that show up in that scene, they are funny and cartoonish...but Hawke mom and Quentin are sinister...

Other than desire Demon, all other demons are not "demons"...i don't know what criteria of a demon in western, but demon in my own perspective are not monsters...if you guys know what i mean...like Desire Demon.

Korean and Japanese movies have many scary **** ghosts in it, i will never watch them alone and never watch them in the night. Most western movies about ghost are for a laugh, except few ones where there are no ghosts in it.

What does mean scary then? The Desire Demon isn't scary and if that's what you're using as a standard for judging then you will never find any game to meet up to your level of expectation. I think you misunderstand what a dark fantasy is if you're expecting to be cowering in fear at the end of a dark fantasy game.

Diablo is a dark fantasy and yet you won't (and shouldn't really) get scared from anything you encounter in said series. The Witcher is a dark fantasy and yet it doesn't even contain any "scary **** ghosts" or zombies for that matter. Arx Fatalis is dark fantasy (set on a world where the sun has died and thus everyone is living underground) and yet it doesn't contain any "scary **** ghosts" (it has zombies but then...so do most RPG's).

Dark fantasy doesn't mean "horror game" although it may contain some horror themes. Other dark fantasy games like The Witcher are dark in that it tackles with subjects such as rape, racism, sexuality, sexism, abuse and so on. Dragon Age: Origins is dark in that it also tackles with subjects such as rape and racism but the other dark elements are that there's demons, children possessed by demon which present morally gray choices and other inhuman monsters such as the darkspawn and broodmothers.

You're sincerely telling me that your broodmother isn't sinister and doesn't make you cringe?

Consider what this site says below:

http://www.colinfbar...tasy-as-a-genre 

"Dark fantasy doesn’t necessarily need to do that, but it does, fairly often, contain dark, horror-like elements such as:

• The presence of evil, whether an entity or a force
• Suspenseful scenes and elements of anxiety
• Creatures, monsters or things of hellish origin
• Characters with questionable morales and goals

A good dark fantasy story doesn’t have to have any horror element to be dark, this can be created by atmosphere and setting. Gormenghast is an example of great, dark setting, although it’s regarded as a Gothic novel, in modern-day categorisation this fits the profile of dark fantasy. Some of H.P.Lovecraft’s stories come under this categorisation, too (At The Mountains Of Madness as one example)."

Now let's have a look at Origins:

• The presence of evil, whether an entity or a force

Yep. The darkspawn.

• Suspenseful scenes and elements of anxiety

Yep. The Circle Tower contains many of these scenes where everything seems calm and quiet but then you get ambused by demons or possessed corpses.

• Creatures, monsters or things of hellish origin

Yep. Darkspawn and Demons.

• Characters with questionable morales and goals

Yep. Look at Arl Howe.