47 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

No, I don't believe that the Soldier was OP in ME2, even though I still feel ARush did, as a whole, stand a bit above the other class powers. Honestly, the Soldier had and still only has just 2 powers, so why shouldn't it's unique power stand out a little more than the rest?? For all it was, the Soldier was, and still is the most rudimentary class in the game; sure, you could tank, DPS and move like crazy, but you still had to work within the confines of the basic game mechanics to do it (as opposed to the Vanguard who could teleport, the Adept who could CC AND instakill whole waves on its own, manipulate aggro like the Infiltrator/Engineer, or be invincible like the Sent.). IMO the Soldier was great at a lot, but it was still a Jack-of-All-Trades-Master-of-None (...well, no, it was the Master of DPS, but really just that).

Yes, that isn't all that different from what I think about the class.  Good at most things, relatively easy to pick up and play, consistently decent throughout the game.

I'd say the Mattock broke the game in the sense that it was "too good" in general. Seriously, it was THE assault rifle in ME2. You needed time dilation to really abuse it, but OTOH, it staggered a lot (esp. with headshots), which is why I actually preferred it to the Locust on a lot of my ME2 caster builds. The Mattock easily benefitted Soldiers the most back then, but it was still so good on everyone else that it was never a problem to me.

I wouldn't argue that the Mattock wasn't good on a standard class without weapon bonuses or time compression.  Just that it wasn't really overpowered unless you had time compression.

[JaegerBane]

capn233 wrote...
The bonus powers weren't supposed to be the best powers, and nearly all of them were behind class trademark powers with the exception of Singularity, the often maligned Adept exclusive.  Sure, some of them did a niche extremely well, but they were not the end all and be all of powers (with maybe one glitched exception).

Sorry, I wasn't saying that *all* bonus powers were better CC powers, I was saying that *the best* CC powers happened to be bonus powers and therefore were available to the soldier to use, so suggesting they were somehow hamstrung in the CC department didn't have any merit.

Specifically I was referring to Stasis, as that could instantly CC any enemy that wasn't a Thresher Maw or Harby at any range no matter what defences they had. There was no other CC ability in the game that could realistically achieve that. There's an argument to be made that Neural Shock and Reave were superior CCs in comparison to stuff like Drone and Singularity too, due to how flaky and unreliable the latter powers were.

It doesn't matter though, my point was purely that CC wasn't something a well-constructed soldier had any issue at all with. Stasis combined with Squad Cryo was the ultimate combo of CC abilities in the game. Lets not even get into Inferno's ability to cause fire dances through defences to surrounding targets...

Cryo ammo really only shined on missions with many melee creatures, specifically husks since they would also be instantly killed.  Inferno Ammo is a good ammo power, but it does not compare at all to the tech bursting Disruptor or Incendiary Exposive ammo of ME3.  Its CC was ok, but the actual damage output was minute.

I think you've missed the point, here - I wasn't comparing Inferno and Squad Cryo to ME3, I was comparing to the other powers in ME2. Since you claimed that they were 'tame', I assumed you were saying so in comparison to stuff that was in the same game.

Neither of these are even Soldier exclusives anyway.  Vangaurd had both, Infiltrator had Cryo.  And both of those classes also had good trademark powers as well as some other decent powers.

Again, irrelevant - I was pointing out the powers can't justifiably be considered weak in any way - the fact the Vanguard had them too is beside the point.

And if we are going to bring that one out, I guess I have to question whether you could play any class but soldier decently in ME2.

Well, you could ask that question, but its completely irrelevant. Its quite a logical leap to assume I just couldn't play any class properly purely because I point out Squad Cryo could auto-CC assuming your squaddies were alive and point out that Stasis was available for soldiers.

I questioned whether you were playing the soldier properly because you were apparently saying you couldn't use Stasis and Squad Cryo (or saying that for some reason they didn't work etc), and I questioned you on the same basis I'd question a man's sight when I see him persistently walking into a brick wall. I wasn't aware that anyone was actually unaware that Squad Cryo and Stasis were an excellent CC combo... I mean, can you give me a list of other powers that either auto-CC undefended opponents or work 100% instantly from any range on any enemy? Squad Cryo wasn't even in the game if you played something other than soldier and the vanguard, and, well... the vanguard didn't have as many guns or AR.

Your premise was that Adrenaline Rush was so "boken" that it made the class enormously imbalanced.  That is clearly false. 

It's only 'false' because you're saying it is, capn. You haven't actually given an argument for your stance. As I mention, when I say it was 'broken' I'm comparing it to other ME2 powers, I don't really see why you'd try to bring in ME3 into the comparison.

If we take out the hyperbole, sure Adrenaline Rush was useful on every level and against every enemy.  Soldier only had 1 other power, which was Concussive Shot.  What else are you going to use your cooldowns on?  Turning ammo powers on and off constantly?

In every debate I've had on this matter, the assumption that having only 1 'active' power somehow is a disadvantage always comes up, and no-one ever actually explains it - its just thrown out as a given, as if the soldier only having one mighty power to use is somehow better than having several weak powers to use. Given how powerful the soldier's ammo powers were, the universal use of AR and the universal cooldown that ME2 introduced, I've yet to hear *any* justification as to why that is, let alone a good one. If anything, it only affects how boring the class was, but that has nothing to do with its relative power and balance against everything else.

If anything there was a much better case to be made that Tech Armor was indeed the most imbalanced trademark power in ME2 and that Sentinel could even be the most powerful class as a result. 

Its not a better case, as the Sentinel was one of the most power focused classes in the game, and Tech Armour had the longest cooldown of all the class powers. It was powerful, yes, but hardly broken. Compared to the soldier, that had AR on a cooldown 4 times less and no other powers competing for the cooldown, it wasn't even in the same league.

Vanguard was immensely poweful late game, especially if you took Stasis and abused it.

Indeed, and like Tech Armour, Charge offered a major bonus with a similarly major downside in that it a) forced the user to be right next to the opponent and largely monopolised the user's cooldown. But, thats what it was supposed to be - high-risk, high reward. AR was simply High-reward as the 'risk' you took every time you activated it was non-existent.

There's also the contingent that thinks that Infiltrator is the best class in ME2...

I happen to be one of that contingent, but I draw a line between being 'best' and 'broken'. The infiltrator had a stack of abilities that made it a hard choice between deciding which powers to use, but if were used perfectly, you could steamroll the game. That's fine, that's how it should be. I consider the soldier 'broken' because it could achieve exactly the same by simply turning on Squad Cryo and Inferno/Disruptor, spamming AR and holding down the fire button. No other class could blast through levels with so little time and thought as the soldier could.

That said, I'm not actually bothered that the ME2 soldier was the 'I win' class - as I was explaning to BinaryHelix, I was pointing out why the current ME3 soldier isn't broken, and that comparing it to ME2 is not going to give fair view of it. You yourself said that the current ME3 ammo powers are no pushovers, and the soldier still has them.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 12 août 2012 - 06:13 .

[capn233]

[quote]JaegerBane wrote...

Sorry, I wasn't saying that *all* bonus powers were better CC powers, I was saying that *the best* CC powers happened to be bonus powers and therefore were available to the soldier to use, so suggesting they were somehow hamstrung in the CC department didn't have any merit. [/quote]
Squad Cryo ammo is decent CC, mainly against unprotected melee creatures (husks) and is situational.  Yes it doesn't take a cooldown.  It is a good power, very good on certain maps.  But it isn't isn't even part of Adrenaline Rush... which of course was the main issue at hand after you started the ball rolling with the nonsense idea that Adrenaline Rush was a severely imbalanced power.

We should ignore the bonus powers since they are available on all classes anyway, and they take away a cooldown from what you claimed was a completely "broken" power.

[quote]
I think you've missed the point, here - I wasn't comparing Inferno and Squad Cryo to ME3, I was comparing to the other powers in ME2. Since you claimed that they were 'tame', I assumed you were saying so in comparison to stuff that was in the same game.[/quote]
I was comparing them to both.  Inferno Ammo isn't the world's greatest CC.  Good.  Not gamebreaking.  And damage wise it is miles behind the power in ME3.  Cryo is "improved" versus large targets in ME3.  And was pretty poor against protected organics and synthetics.

[quote]Again, irrelevant - I was pointing out the powers can't justifiably be considered weak in any way - the fact the Vanguard had them too is beside the point.[/quote]
It is very relevant when the whole point is class balance and the powers that make up that balance.

[quote]
Well, you could ask that question, but its completely irrelevant. Its quite a logical leap to assume I just couldn't play any class properly purely because I point out Squad Cryo could auto-CC assuming your squaddies were alive and point out that Stasis was available for soldiers. [/quote]
That wasn't the leap at all.  It was because you accuse me of not knowing how to play Soldier properly when you are making a claim that Adrenaline Rush is so overpowered that it propels the class to heights unreachable by other classes.  That is false.

[quote]I questioned whether you were playing the soldier properly because you were apparently saying you couldn't use Stasis and Squad Cryo (or saying that for some reason they didn't work etc), and I questioned you on the same basis I'd question a man's sight when I see him persistently walking into a brick wall. I wasn't aware that anyone was actually unaware that Squad Cryo and Stasis were an excellent CC combo... I mean, can you give me a list of other powers that either auto-CC undefended opponents or work 100% instantly from any range on any enemy? Squad Cryo wasn't even in the game if you played something other than soldier and the vanguard, and, well... the vanguard didn't have as many guns or AR.[/quote]You are just responding to points you made up in your head to support your point.  I didn't say anything about a Stasis and Cryo combo, even though that was of course also available on an Infiltrator and Vanguard if you want (something that is clearly important in a discussion about class balance).  Squad Cryo ammo CC in ME2 is indeed somewhat tame to in ME3.  And it certainly wasn't game breaking.  It was great on Derelict Reaper, good on a couple other missions, and mediocre on some other ones.  But you can think whatever you want about Cryo Ammo.  I can even concede to you that Cryo Ammo is the greatest CC power in ME2 and it won't change the fact that your boneheaded comment about Adrenaline Rush is wrong.

[quote]
It's only 'false' because you're saying it is, capn. You haven't actually given an argument for your stance. As I mention, when I say it was 'broken' I'm comparing it to other ME2 powers, I don't really see why you'd try to bring in ME3 into the comparison.[/quote]
Locutus already weighed in that he didn't think Soldier was OP in ME2.  There are scores of others that would agree.  And those that wouldn't would nearly list all the other classes as OP as well.

It's false because you make some pretty bold claims that I have already shown were false.  Not because I simply said it was false.

[quote]Adrenaline Rush was completely broken in ME2 - It boosted every single aspect of the Soldier character to stupid levels and could be spammed to the point where the soldier could do everything better than every other class, so I'm not surprised it was nerfed.[/quote]

Soldier didn't tank as well as Sentinel.  You tried to backpedal on that by saying he doesn't need to, but the fact of the matter is that alone is enough to mean your statement is invalid.

Adrenaline Rush doesn't magically boost a Soldier's CC to insane levels either.  You aren't going to burn or freeze with Inferno or Cryo substantially more than a Vanguard or Infiltrator would have done.  And ARush is preventing you from using Stasis if you for some reason believed that Cryo and Stasis was somehow the hot ticket on Soldier (it isn't though).

Someone that doesn't suck with Vanguard and actually built a well rounded one will CC better than an ARush spamming Soldier.  This is demonstable on Derelict Reaper... a mission where CC differences are very easy to see due to the large number of Husks.  Even an Infiltrator should be able to keep up if you have Incinerate leveled up for armor stripping.  An Adept that uses Singularity correctly can work a lot of magic there as well even without Squad Cryo.

Engineers could CC on synthetic missions significantly better than soldier by just spamming Overload, Drone, Hacking.

Adrenaline Rush did boost movement speed, but you still lagged behind Vanguard in mobility chiefly because Vanguard did not actually have to be constrained by obstacles in between two points and could near instantly travel great distances.

Time Dilation doesn't allow you to avoid damage more than turning invisible.  Sure, you have damage reduction, but that is a different means to the same end.

Locutus put it better than me.  Soldier does most things well, but he only does weapon DPS the best.  That is fine, he is the pure combat class.  It is probably easier for new players to play him.  But I rank him perhaps 3rd as far as vanilla classes go, and clearly do not believe that Adrenaline Rush is massively overpowered... it can't be if the class itself is not massively overpowered.
[quote]In every debate I've had on this matter, the assumption that having only 1 'active' power somehow is a disadvantage always comes up, and no-one ever actually explains it - its just thrown out as a given, as if the soldier only having one mighty power to use is somehow better than having several weak powers to use. Given how powerful the soldier's ammo powers were, the universal use of AR and the universal cooldown that ME2 introduced, I've yet to hear *any* justification as to why that is, let alone a good one. If anything, it only affects how boring the class was, but that has nothing to do with its relative power and balance against everything else.[/quote]
It's to explain the versatility of the power.  The classes that had fewer actual powers had more versatile ones.  Just because you aren't happy that Soldier had a "boring" power still doesn't make it massively game-breakingly overpowered, which was what you claimed.

[quote]
Its not a better case, as the Sentinel was one of the most power focused classes in the game, and Tech Armour had the longest cooldown of all the class powers. It was powerful, yes, but hardly broken. Compared to the soldier, that had AR on a cooldown 4 times less and no other powers competing for the cooldown, it wasn't even in the same league.[/quote]
It most certainly is a better case.  The fact that you can do Object Rho on Insanity with a Sentinel by sitting around and doing nearly nothing except reactivating TA until the YMIR shows up is pretty telling.  Resetting your squad's cooldowns was a huge benefit, even if your cooldown was longer than ARush... you can still cast double the squad powers every 12 seconds.

And the "4 times less" cooldown time is misleading, as ARush's cooldown didn't start until the duration was over.  You could cast ARush every 8 seconds real time, not every 3s.

[quote]
Indeed, and like Tech Armour, Charge offered a major bonus with a similarly major downside in that it a) forced the user to be right next to the opponent and largely monopolised the user's cooldown. But, thats what it was supposed to be - high-risk, high reward. AR was simply High-reward as the 'risk' you took every time you activated it was non-existent.[/quote]
But even if ARush is lower risk, you still could not "Do everything better than every class."  That was part of the lower reward.  Yes you did weapon DPS better than other classes, but that makes sense since it is the combat class.

And sure, Soldier is the easiest to play for a shooter fan that doesn't know the mechanics of the game, but that does not necessarily mean that it is overpowered either.  Just that it has a simple skillset.
[quote]
I happen to be one of that contingent, but I draw a line between being 'best' and 'broken'.[/quote]And I in fact made a thread called "Infiltrator is the worst class."  It was only slightly serious since the class balance in ME2 was the best in the series by an order of magnitude, and I applied the caveat that I was talking about vanilla class effectiveness.

[quote]I consider the soldier 'broken' because it could achieve exactly the same by simply turning on Squad Cryo and Inferno/Disruptor, spamming AR and holding down the fire button. No other class could blast through levels with so little time and thought as the soldier could.[/quote]So little thought?  Maybe.  But it doesn't win timewise.  A veteran player can run through the game much faster with Vanguard.  If you know basic mechanics in the game, Assault Sentinel is likewise at least as brainless as Soldier, and indeed why there were many more people claiming Tech Armor was overpowered compared to Adrenaline Rush.

[quote]That said, I'm not actually bothered that the ME2 soldier was the 'I win' class - as I was explaning to BinaryHelix, I was pointing out why the current ME3 soldier isn't broken, and that comparing it to ME2 is not going to give fair view of it. You yourself said that the current ME3 ammo powers are no pushovers, and the soldier still has them.[/quote]Yes ammo powers are more powerful in ME3 than in ME2, that is certainly true.  The problem balance wise is that Adrenaline Rush took a step backwards, guns are a step backwards largely, and the only other class that got a signature power nerf was Sentinel, who benefits from absurd biotic combos while being weight insensitive.  Otherwise the changes in most other powers, new and improved combos, rarity of enemy protections, and crazy new powers like Nova meant that the rest of the classes moved way up in relative power.  I agree, ME3 soldier isn't broken, but every other class is in this game.  There isn't anything from ME2 that could even hope to be as mindless and easy as every class except Soldier in ME3.

Modifié par capn233, 13 août 2012 - 04:30 .

[Xariann]

Here's another perspective. My other half played ME 3 multiplayer before she played anything else. She then decided to run through the story. So she started off from ME 1, decided she didn't like the gameplay, went through the story through Genesis then played ME 2. She's still playing it.

Her first and main complay is: "Why the hell do I need to go through so many weapons before I can get the one I want?" (Without pausing that is).

And since you don't NEED certain weapons to get barriers or shields down quicker anymore, I can see why the weapon system is the way it is. I am not sure I like it 100%, but they tried to streamline it.

[JaegerBane]

capn233 wrote...
<mega snip>
I agree, ME3 soldier isn't broken, but every other class is in this game. 

You'll have to excuse my summary here capn, I only skim read the wall of text - essays from both us were rendering this thread unreadable, and given that we appeared to be disagreeing on a multitude of fundamental points (and I'm not even sure we're talking about the same thing on a number of them), I'm not convinced we're going to stay on topic here. 

You believe the class to be purely less powerful than ME2, I feel it's simply not overpowered, Bioware apparently saw it my way, but the basic issue remains the same - the point above. Comparing the ME3 soldier to the ME2 version isn't a basis for claiming the ME3 one is broken.

I'm not sure that I agree that *every* other class is broken, I'm more inclined to believe that ME3 is simply an easier game, but even so, I don't see the ME3 Soldier in any different a situation than the ME2 Adept. And the ME2 Adept wasn't broken.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 13 août 2012 - 05:54 .

[capn233]

JaegerBane wrote...

You believe the class to be purely less powerful than ME2, I feel it's simply not overpowered, Bioware apparently saw it my way, but the basic issue remains the same - the point above. Comparing the ME3 soldier to the ME2 version isn't a basis for claiming the ME3 one is broken.

I'm not sure that I agree that *every* other class is broken, I'm more inclined to believe that ME3 is simply an easier game, but even so, I don't see the ME3 Soldier in any different a situation than the ME2 Adept. And the ME2 Adept wasn't broken.

Well then we agree on a few fundamental things afterall.

ME3 is overall an easier game compared to ME2, I agree with that.

I don't think the ME3 Soldier is hugely less powerful than ME2 Soldier, just a bit.  It is more that basically every other class ends up being a lot more powerful than in ME2 seemingly due to the multitude of changes to mechanics and enemies.  Weapons changes for the worse do not hit the other classes as hard as Soldier.  Sure, you can work around it.

I didn't think ME2 Adept was the weakest class in that game, but I know what you are getting at and I think Soldier in ME3 does work in that sort of analogy.  Maybe all the classes are not so powerful as to be broken in ME3, but the biotics are teetering fairly close.

As it relates to the thread, I would have been in favor of an ME3 Soldier with more weight capacity, but more importantly a rethink on many of the guns in the game and a reevaluation of the roles of the soldier's powers and what each should be contributing to the damage output.

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

One major thing I would really change about the soldier is increasing the base weight to 75 or 100 even. That way the soldier can wield at least two heavy weapons and still have a decent cooldown for concussive shot and AR. I took the amplification evo on rank 6. I love how concussive shot looks with the warp ammo on a weapon. Pretty purple particles.

[Abraham_uk]

The journey of the soldier class.

Soldier:
ME 1: The tank class that could spam immunity and use assault rifles without having crazy recoil.
ME 2: The class with all the guns and highest damage per second with the guns. Also very good defence and very fast with adrenaline rush.
ME 3: A strong class with moderate weight restrictions and a still potent adrenaline rush. Also had amplified concussive shot and a grenade. So more versatile than it has ever been. In addition, still boasts the greatest weapon damage of any class.


The soldier is not my cup of tea. For me tech and biotic powers are essencial to my gameplay. The only attractions were adrenaline rush and amplified concussive shot. Adrenaline rush is very good even in Mass Effect 3 (I use it online), but not enough to attract me to play soldier. And amplified concussive shot is deemed to be weak.

[RedCaesar97]

In my opinion, Disruptor Ammo is the most overpowered ammo power in the game. With Concussive Shot and the right weapon, you can tech burst about once every 1.5 seconds. No I am not kidding. I will try to get a video posted showing it.

So screw weight capacity, the Soldier does not need it.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 14 août 2012 - 02:03 .

[zeypher]

Concussive shot is useless. Its only good with disruptor ammo, carnage would have been better as with the free power during AR using carnage one could set off fire explosion with incendiary ammo or tech bursts . Right now concussive shot is worthless

[RedCaesar97]

zeypher wrote...

Concussive shot is useless. Its only good with disruptor ammo, carnage would have been better as with the free power during AR using carnage one could set off fire explosion with incendiary ammo or tech bursts . Right now concussive shot is worthless

Concussive Shot worthless? I beg to differ. Here is a Soldier with Concussive Shot and Disruptor Ammo only.

If you want to compare Carnage to Concussive Shot they both have their pros and cons:
- Carnage does more damage
- Concussive Shot has a quicker cooldown
- Carnage starts with a radius, Concussive Shot requires a rank 4 evolution
- Concussive Shot can knock unprotected enemies down at rank 1, Carnage requires a rank 5 evolution
- Concussive Shot has a faster velocity
- Both Carnage and Concussive Shot can set off tech bursts, fire explosions, and cryo explosions. Concussive Shot does tech bursts better, Carnage does fire explosions better since it is more damaging. With the right evolutions, Concussive Shot can probably do cryo explosions better.

[zeypher]

Yea but choosing rank 6 AR free power fire for concussive shot is useless. I lose dmg by using concussive shot, considering my i can do 170 dmg explosions with explosive burst ammo. Carnage would be welcome.

[thisisme8]

I can understand carrying 3 weapons, but 4? Why would you need anything else besides the shotty, sniper, and AR? And the odd part is, I always forget to use powers on my soldier because my weapons do plenty of damage on their own. Soldier is still the most consistent at dealing high damage over long periods of time. The only cooldowns you need are when switching ammo powers.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

In my opinion, Disruptor Ammo is the most overpowered ammo power in the game. With Concussive Shot and the right weapon, you can tech burst about once every 1.5 seconds. No I am not kidding. I will try to get a video posted showing it.

So screw weight capacity, the Soldier does not need it.

That's what I say. Even if you want to spam powers as a Soldier, you're pretty much limited to ARush, Concussive Shot and some BP. Of those, only your CS or BP will be a combo'ing power, so you will be using squaddies, meaning your combo rate is not really gonna be very high w/o Ammo Powers (which are tied to weapons). Soldiers just don't need much CD.

RedCaesar97 wrote...

zeypher wrote...

Concussive shot is useless. Its only good with disruptor ammo, carnage would have been better as with the free power during AR using carnage one could set off fire explosion with incendiary ammo or tech bursts . Right now concussive shot is worthless

Concussive Shot worthless? I beg to differ. Here is a Soldier with Concussive Shot and Disruptor Ammo only.

If you want to compare Carnage to Concussive Shot they both have their pros and cons:
- Carnage does more damage
- Concussive Shot has a quicker cooldown
- Carnage starts with a radius, Concussive Shot requires a rank 4 evolution
- Concussive Shot can knock unprotected enemies down at rank 1, Carnage requires a rank 5 evolution
- Concussive Shot has a faster velocity
- Both Carnage and Concussive Shot can set off tech bursts, fire explosions, and cryo explosions. Concussive Shot does tech bursts better, Carnage does fire explosions better since it is more damaging. With the right evolutions, Concussive Shot can probably do cryo explosions better.

They made CS way way better in ME3, mainly due to the Amplification evolution. Though I still don't use it as much, it's no longer the trash power it was in ME2.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 14 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[thisisme8]

Wasn't ever trash in ME2... you just didn't abuse the stagger mechanic it came with.

[RedCaesar97]

thisisme8 wrote...

Wasn't ever trash in ME2... you just didn't abuse the stagger mechanic it came with.

I used it, but with a 6-second cooldown, the stagger mechanic was not worth it, and the damage bonus to barriers was only really good on Hardcore or Casual, since it did not deal enough damage to fully strip the weakest barriers on the other difficulties at level 30; I think it stopped stripping them at level 21-24 or something like that. It was okay on Garrus. Neural Shock(wave) as a bonus power was better for staggers on organics. Slam was good too.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

thisisme8 wrote...

Wasn't ever trash in ME2... you just didn't abuse the stagger mechanic it came with.

It was never worth it to use Shep's CS, because ARush+Mattock could produce a stagger so hard, enemies would never get up, lol. Also, a BP like Heavy Slam could stagger more or less the same, yet also do so much more for a Soldier Shep.

OTOH, CS on Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed were fine.

I'm a BSN vet too, I abused CS stagger like all you guys!

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 15 août 2012 - 02:22 .

[capn233]

Even if you didn't have the Mattock in ME2 it still wasn't really worth using Shepard's CS. However, I did use squad mate CS fairly often.

[JaegerBane]

thisisme8 wrote...

Wasn't ever trash in ME2... you just didn't abuse the stagger mechanic it came with.

As Caesar says, the 6 second cooldown was just too long for a basic stagger.

Hell, you could replicate the effects of the stagger simply by shooting an enemy with inferno ammo for a bit. AR or your bonus power were almost always a better choice (unless you went for mad choice like Fortification or something)

[zeypher]

JaegerBane wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Wasn't ever trash in ME2... you just didn't abuse the stagger mechanic it came with.

As Caesar says, the 6 second cooldown was just too long for a basic stagger.

Hell, you could replicate the effects of the stagger simply by shooting an enemy with inferno ammo for a bit. AR or your bonus power were almost always a better choice (unless you went for mad choice like Fortification or something)

Even now, a rev generally sort of staggers ppl a bit. though i do have a 1 sec CS now, i use it when im bored

[TheSovietPenguin]

I'd prefer an additional weapon mod slot for my guns over more weight any day.

The soldier is supposed to be a "weapons master" anyway, right?

[capn233]

TheSovietPenguin wrote...

I'd prefer an additional weapon mod slot for my guns over more weight any day.

The soldier is supposed to be a "weapons master" anyway, right?

Yeah I would have preferred that too.  Or even just more accuracy and stability from passive.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^The Turian MP bonus would've been great.