86 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Taifun]

BoogieManFL wrote...
You respond to hypothetical situations like the person making them is meaning them to be factual,

You made those fights up?

I'm just saying the game seem to clearly have a tendancy to be a little harsh on the rolls.

Listen. If you read my previous posts, you will note that I am not opposed to the idea that the dice may slightly favor the enemy (even if I don't believe that they do). What you are describing is something else though.
If you had said something along the lines of: "Of 500 attack rolls that the enemies made, 65% were 11 or above", then I would not only have asked for a bigger sample, I would have started logging things myself.
What you did instead was describe battles of a nature that can only be called exceptional while acting like they were not.

It's just talking.

I am just talking.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 12 août 2012 - 06:47 .

[BoogieManFL]

BoogieManFL wrote...
I don't think it really makes sense to say that simply by making it there things worked out. Even if I only had a 1% chance to survive each fight up till then, given enough time, it would be done.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
100 reloads per fight? Now you're exxagerating. You're playing a Baldur's Gate that takes over 10 000 hours to finish?


You responded as if I was stating it as fact.

Modifié par BoogieManFL, 12 août 2012 - 09:15 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

BoogieManFL wrote...
You responded as if I was stating it as fact.

Did you know that 23 reloads is only a little bit less than a 4th of 100?
100 not much of a leap if you have already accepted 23 reloads per encounter. Mind you, I don't believe that number.

[BoogieManFL]

Per encounter? huh? I said throughout the Illithid lair, meaning it's entirety. I never said per encounter. My exact words were "I had to reload to get through this place about 23 times." In other words 23 times, approximately, someone got killed and I reloaded.

There is a huge difference between that and 100. Anyway, this tangent is pointless to discuss and I have no desire to do so any further.

Your perceptions, my perceptions. Not going to be the same. I'm not wrong in what I've seen. It doesn't mean you have to agree or have seen it yourself for it to be allowed to exist.

Modifié par BoogieManFL, 12 août 2012 - 09:48 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

BoogieManFL wrote...

Well, what prompted me to finally comment on this was two things. There is a trapped door in the Bridge District that petrifies on activation. Of course Minsc gets to do the door first and get petrified. I reload it 3 times just for giggles and he fails each time, with Petrify/Polymorph at 3 (-3). Eh, it happens. Mathematically unlikely but it happens. Oh well.
.

If you have a thief in your party you can always detrap it if the thief has about 90ish points in trap skills. Essentially you need someone like Imoen(or Jan, or Yoshimo). I think there are only two traps she cannot do in SoA, and one of them is also in the Bridge District, it is in the house where the child killer is.

Viconia fumbled with her sling and accomplished little, Minsc and Jaheira mop up most of the others, but one lone archer Kobold remained. Shooting his little short bow and regular arrows at Jahiera. Repeatedly hitting her when she has a base AC of -12, and bonus vs. missle weapons on her gear, mostly from the fortress shield. Her adjustment vs. Missle weapons is *-17*. So out of pure morbid curiosity I stopped everyone and stood there. Out of 8 shots it hit her 5 times. Really?

While it *could* be possible, I'd probably have to test it myself but why should I bother? I've never faced the situation you are describing. I simply don't believe it, I'm sorry. Maybe I've never just had a character standing taking hits and doing nothing about it. Could you tell me what level Jaheira is? Maybe she has fire elementals or ironskin? I really don't know what your situation is. You seem to be lamenting the fact that your high level characters are taking hits from random muggers and kobolds and I just can't understand why you are allowing this to happen. You mention you have the fortress shield. Can I suggest that there is a better shield available named the reflection shield...this will certainly eliminate any kind of AC/Thaco problems you seem to be having if your game truly is busted for some reason.

Yes, it's all possible but these very improbable events just keep repeatedly happening. I have 3 Mages cast AOE crowd control abilities at a group of like 7 badguys and each one gets hit 3 times and like 2 of them are affected. It's just so unlikely to occur which such frequently that I firmly feel that there is indeed something fishy going on.

You may need to describe this situation more. Some "bad guys" simply have better saves. But for the most part I do recall the spell chaos completely obliterating everything in early BG2.

As for that Illithid domination, that was using the staff I found there in their lair. I was having another string of bad luck and had to use the circlets simply to get through using them to fight each other. I am trying to go through with minimal resting in general and *trying* to minimize resting at periods where it seemed like it really wouldn't be possible, like escaping from an Illithid city. I hit him with Greater Malison and Lower Resistances. It was one of the weaker "Mind Flayers" and not a Ulitharid. Just examples as these things repeatedly play out.

May I suggest you avoid using lower resist, domination, and greater malison against mindflayers altogether? I can't remember quite clearly since I have not had the chance to play Baldur's Gate 2 recently, but spells like animate dead, mordy sword, sunfire, protection from magical weapons, stoneskin, mirror image...etc are much better weapons against illithids. Remember to haste your summons and have your characters use ranged weapons(if they have any). Hopefully that may help you. Also you may want to rest more. What's the point in defeating an enemy using a handicap if you need many times to do it? You're really not breaking any rules in resting in a dungeon. It's available to you and I say you should be free to use it.

Still love the game but it can get frustrating from time to time

It can be frustrating but after you get the hang of it, you will do fine. Remember you have plenty of options in this game. I'm a player who doesn't pay much attention to looking at the roll of an attack or the chances of a save, I just know that the lower I go the better. And for the most part I can still play a relaxing game and that's really all that matters. You seem like you just need to know a few crucial spells, maybe a few important items and you'll be good to go.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 13 août 2012 - 06:50 .

[The Potty 1]

Hm. Well you could edit a character to have saves all 15, cheat a pair of rings of regeneration and potions of extra healing on them, and cast area stuff like web, grease, cloudkill, storm of vengeance, etc, and watch the saves. Then retry with saves 10, 5, and perhaps 20 for completeness. Man this game needs a way of logging from the status window.

[BoogieManFL]

I

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

BoogieManFL wrote...

Well, what prompted me to finally comment on this was two things. There is a trapped door in the Bridge District that petrifies on activation. Of course Minsc gets to do the door first and get petrified. I reload it 3 times just for giggles and he fails each time, with Petrify/Polymorph at 3 (-3). Eh, it happens. Mathematically unlikely but it happens. Oh well.
.

If you have a thief in your party you can always detrap it if the thief has about 90ish points in trap skills. Essentially you need someone like Imoen(or Jan, or Yoshimo). I think there are only two traps she cannot do in SoA, and one of them is also in the Bridge District, it is in the house where the child killer is.

Viconia fumbled with her sling and accomplished little, Minsc and Jaheira mop up most of the others, but one lone archer Kobold remained. Shooting his little short bow and regular arrows at Jahiera. Repeatedly hitting her when she has a base AC of -12, and bonus vs. missle weapons on her gear, mostly from the fortress shield. Her adjustment vs. Missle weapons is *-17*. So out of pure morbid curiosity I stopped everyone and stood there. Out of 8 shots it hit her 5 times. Really?

While it *could* be possible, I'd probably have to test it myself but why should I bother? I've never faced the situation you are describing. I simply don't believe it, I'm sorry. Maybe I've never just had a character standing taking hits and doing nothing about it. Could you tell me what level Jaheira is? Maybe she has fire elementals or ironskin? I really don't know what your situation is. You seem to be lamenting the fact that your high level characters are taking hits from random muggers and kobolds and I just can't understand why you are allowing this to happen. You mention you have the fortress shield. Can I suggest that there is a better shield available named the reflection shield...this will certainly eliminate any kind of AC/Thaco problems you seem to be having if your game truly is busted for some reason.

Yes, it's all possible but these very improbable events just keep repeatedly happening. I have 3 Mages cast AOE crowd control abilities at a group of like 7 badguys and each one gets hit 3 times and like 2 of them are affected. It's just so unlikely to occur which such frequently that I firmly feel that there is indeed something fishy going on.

You may need to describe this situation more. Some "bad guys" simply have better saves. But for the most part I do recall the spell chaos completely obliterating everything in early BG2.

As for that Illithid domination, that was using the staff I found there in their lair. I was having another string of bad luck and had to use the circlets simply to get through using them to fight each other. I am trying to go through with minimal resting in general and *trying* to minimize resting at periods where it seemed like it really wouldn't be possible, like escaping from an Illithid city. I hit him with Greater Malison and Lower Resistances. It was one of the weaker "Mind Flayers" and not a Ulitharid. Just examples as these things repeatedly play out.

May I suggest you avoid using lower resist, domination, and greater malison against mindflayers altogether? I can't remember quite clearly since I have not had the chance to play Baldur's Gate 2 recently, but spells like animate dead, mordy sword, sunfire, protection from magical weapons, stoneskin, mirror image...etc are much better weapons against illithids. Remember to haste your summons and have your characters use ranged weapons(if they have any). Hopefully that may help you. Also you may want to rest more. What's the point in defeating an enemy using a handicap if you need many times to do it? You're really not breaking any rules in resting in a dungeon. It's available to you and I say you should be free to use it.

Still love the game but it can get frustrating from time to time

It can be frustrating but after you get the hang of it, you will do fine. Remember you have plenty of options in this game. I'm a player who doesn't pay much attention to looking at the roll of an attack or the chances of a save, I just know that the lower I go the better. And for the most part I can still play a relaxing game and that's really all that matters. You seem like you just need to know a few crucial spells, maybe a few important items and you'll be good to go.

I have Imoen. I simply forgot a door was trapped as such right next to an inn marker on the map. Thought I was entering that.

Yes a better shield exists. But I spent my money and time on other things more important. I really don't run in to missle enemies all that often that I consider dangerous, so it wasn't worth it.

And I clearly said I stopped my characters on purpose to see how often
the Kobold would hit, since it already had a been continuously hitting
my character with just good AC and even more protection vs. missle
attacks. I don't understand the confusion, I directly said I did it on purpose.

I was trying to dominate an Illithid to open the doors only they or the Slayer can open. Not as a casual means of dealing with them.

You don't believe me? Fine, your choice. Because I obviously have so much to gain here by lying. Why did you bother replying then?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
[...]

Your post serves little to further the topic at hand and mostly just blames BoogieManFL's skill for his bad luck.

[The Potty 1]

BoogieManFL wrote...

I was trying to dominate an Illithid to open the doors only they or the Slayer can open. Not as a casual means of dealing with them.

Yup I have done this myself, as the mind flayer control circlet is pretty sweet. I wanted one specifically for soloing Ascension, as it can be used to dominate Sarevok. What this means is that you have to cast 3x lower resistance and dominate on a lowly mind flayer in order to make it open the door without using the circlet. I suppose in a non-SCS2 game it's also possible to use a simulacrum to do this, Vhailor's helm comes to mind.

[morbidest2]

BMF,
I think we've all noticed that if we run into a weak bunch of orcs,et al, and just passively stand there, that even in the Vanilla game the enemy ranged fighters will concentrate on our highest AC party members and after a few rounds the critical hits pile up. Is this really what you are refering to? But if you evenly distribute your own fire, get your melee weapons going, etc., this problem evaporates.
With respect to mindflayer collars, keep in mind that the collar is just the equivalent of one of the charm spells (dire, I think) and has a finite duration (45 seconds??), so you really have to crisply march your captive MF to the door before the spell wears off - and then mob him/it/her once the dirty deed is done and the spell broken.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever picked up the Greenstone Amulet in the Beholder Caves (NE part) before entering the MF city? It would make your PC's life a lot easier, and is the real justification for the super cheezy Shield of Balduran.
Like S_L7, I play BG2 purely as a tension relaxing device, rather than as a tactical combat challenge at some Insane SCS level, but I've never observed that "the game is cheating". However, even at Core, if you don't pay attention it's easy enough to suddenly have an NPC or PC chunked. The game is from the era when they weren't supposed to be easy.

[Shadow_Leech07]

BoogieManFL wrote...
You don't believe me? Fine, your choice. Because I obviously have so much to gain here by lying. Why did you bother replying then?

Because you made this initial statement

However, every time I do a replay I swear the game either cheats or enemies are very dilberately overpowered.

You mentioned you had Minsc continuously go into the trapped door or whatever it was and he continuosly became petrified. I pointed out that you could've used Imoen to detrap this door on your reload. Did I do something wrong in pointing out that you could've done something else to avoid the "game cheats/overpowered" statement that you made?

Yes a better shield exists. But I spent my money and time on other things more important. I really don't run in to missle enemies all that often that I consider dangerous, so it wasn't worth it.

But you mention it in this thread so I would assume it is of great importance to you. If you were to come upon an enemy who is a deadly missile user later in the game, are you going to complain, "Well there weren't deadly missile users before so I didn't bother to get the best equipment to counter this particular enemy". (That point was an analogy) I mean I obviously can't change your attitude towards the game but it is what it is but nitpicking about dice rolls isn't going to be helpful later on when AC is essentially useless.

And I clearly said I stopped my characters on purpose to see how often
the Kobold would hit, since it already had a been continuously hitting
my character with just good AC and even more protection vs. missle
attacks. I don't understand the confusion, I directly said I did it on purpose.

So your point is, kobolds shouldn't be able to hit characters because they have on uber equipment that does not yield some kind of protection from normal missile weapons...etc...? Lets assume this is true, what are you going to do about it? Claim that it was Bioware's intent to create such an unfair advantage against you? I just don't understand where you are coming from. You had a problem with the game, I only offered you a solution. That's really all I can do. And why can't I defend the game? Am I not allowed to?

I was trying to dominate an Illithid to open the doors only they or the Slayer can open. Not as a casual means of dealing with them.

You obviously have the option of going into Slayer to open the door, was that option somehow left off for you? There is a spawning point in the area where you can grab an illithid easily if you wanted, you do need the circlet however. You are free to use your lower resist, domination...etc but I don't see how that is somehow an unfair advantage against you. You chose to make it difficult. Again I'm not trying to harp on your play style, you are free to play however you wish, but to say that the game is bad because it does not accommodate your style is wrong in my opinion. That's all I'm saying.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 13 août 2012 - 10:50 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
Did I do something wrong in pointing out that you could've done something else to avoid the "game cheats/overpowered" statement that you made?

Actually, yes.
The point of this thread is not "I can't beat the game because I run into the same traps over and over again", if you haven't noticed.
No matter whether or not you (or I) believe him, what you are doing is simply ignoring the issue at hand, and blaming everything on his actions.
But you need to roll the dice to find out what the results are going to be. If you have a suspicion that the dice may be loaded, the only way to verify this is to put the dice to the test (or to check the code if you are capable of that).

[Shadow_Leech07]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
Did I do something wrong in pointing out that you could've done something else to avoid the "game cheats/overpowered" statement that you made?

Actually, yes.
The point of this thread is not "I can't beat the game because I run into the same traps over and over again", if you haven't noticed.
No matter whether or not you (or I) believe him, what you are doing is simply ignoring the issue at hand, and blaming everything on his actions.
But you need to roll the dice to find out what the results are going to be. If you have a suspicion that the dice may be loaded, the only way to verify this is to put the dice to the test (or to check the code if you are capable of that).

But why is the burden on me to prove the game is unbalanced because (he claimed) it failed him in the situations he stated above? What I am reading is that because the kobold was able to hit Jaheira frequently, and because he could not perform a lower resist 3x times and domination on a mindflayer, that the game is broken against the player. But in cases like the first, I've never had a kobold hit me frequently if I had a high enough AC so my experience differs. However the burden of proof is not on me because I'm not the one with the problem am I? I spent most of my time soloing a fighter through Nashkel Mines...etc throughout Baldur's Gate and I've never encountered such a hilarious situation as he has described so can you fault me for not believing him and offering him solutions?

If he wants to find the coding for the dice rolling and show that the game itself is flawed then of course, he can win the argument. I for one am simply pointing out alternative solutions to his problems because there is no reason for him to have such a difficult time with the game.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 13 août 2012 - 11:55 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
But why is the burden on me to prove the game is unbalanced because (he claimed) it failed him in the situations he stated above?

I am not saying the burden of proof is on you. I am only saying you are ignoring the subject at hand.

But in cases like the first, I've never had a kobold hit me frequently if I had a high enough AC so my experience differs.

I agree with you that these incidents are highly unlikely. If you read my previous posts, I made my opinion in that regard sufficiently clear.

I don't think many people are actually believing that the game is cheating with the dice. As such, for the topic to receive the attention it would deserve if it were true, it would require either for somebody to prove the existence of the sequence BelgarathMTH believes to have seen or for BoogieManFL to show us that the short excerpts out of the lives of his characters are more than just cherrypicked extremes of an adventure that was everything but monotonous.

[Shadow_Leech07]

I went ahead used my vanilla BG2 game as a test because I wanted to see what was up and I only confirmed my own experience. I used a level 19 fighter(Abdel) and equipped him with a fortress shield and had him go down to the temple sewers with -18 AC against missiles. None of the kobolds could hit him without rolling critical. They wasted all their arrows on him and now are trying to melee him(him with -4AC) are still missing him, only hitting on critical. I would estimate at least twenty arrows were wasted before the first critical actually rolled. Perhaps the best solution is to reinstall your game BoogiemanFL, or install bugfix patches. There is probably something wrong with your game.

P.S My game is only patched up to the latest bioware, it is for the most part vanilla with no bugfixes.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 14 août 2012 - 01:20 .

[BoogieManFL]

Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
If he wants to find the coding for the dice rolling and show that the game itself is flawed then of course, he can win the argument.....

 Win the argument? What argument? I was simply discussing. I never insisted the game "cheats" I have only said it seems like there is some bias that makes it more difficult and was curious if anyone else had similar experiences. The fact you think this is something that needs to be "won" makes me care very little about what you have to say.

 Yeah I could have had Imoen disarm the trap. OBVIOUSLY. Yes. That is what you do with traps. Why, why WHY anyone would assume my intent was to insist upon only opening the door by a won save is beyond me. I assume everyone reads with common sense applied. I simply did it to see how many times his extremely wide safety margin due to excellent saves would fail. Same with the Kobolds. They were not a threat. THEY'RE KOBOLDS. I don't need to equip myself specially to deal with such insignificant enemies. Even if they do hit someone 5 times it's not enough damage to care about. I just found it astromically unlike how lucky they were getting. So, as I clearly explained, stood there and let him shoot due to morbid curiosity and astonishment.


 Everyone needs to understand the nature of a random number generator. You can't test it accurately, being random in nature. However, based upon my own experience it seemed unlikely to have such typically average bad luck and thought I'd ask and see if anyone else had similar experiences. I thought maybe it fudges the numbers a little as you level, so even lowly enemies pose some challenge.

 This has NOTHING to do with my game, how I've handled whatever encounter, nothing at all. I'm merely speaking about saves, to hit rolls and such. It doesn't matter the source or how it happened, merely that it did. Saying I'm doing an encounter wrong or I need to buy another item is pointless. I am not and have not asked for gameplay assistance.

 This has nothing to do that asking other people their opinions on the situations on the situations I mentioned, just the results of the roll of the dice. There is nothing to win, or lose here. No fact to prove or disprove.

 Hopefully this clears it up.

Modifié par BoogieManFL, 14 août 2012 - 01:54 .

[Shadow_Leech07]

BoogieManFL wrote...
Win the argument? What argument? I was simply discussing. I never insisted the game "cheats" I have only said it seems like there is some bias that makes it more difficult and was curious if anyone else had similar experiences. The fact you think this is something that needs to be "won" makes me care very little about what you have to say.

Here's the statement from your first post

However, every time I do a replay I swear the game either cheats or enemies are very dilberately overpowered.

Win the argument? What argument? I was simply discussing. I never insisted the game "cheats" I have only said it seems like there is some bias that makes it more difficult and was curious if anyone else had similar experiences. The fact you think this is something that needs to be "won" makes me care very little about what you have to say.

If my opinion means little to you, that's OK. I'm still free to express it am I not?

Yeah I could have had Imoen disarm the trap. OBVIOUSLY. Yes. That is what you do with traps. Why, why WHY anyone would assume my intent was to insist upon only opening the door by a won save is beyond me.

I do not know what kind of experience you have with the game. Maybe you do not know? How am I suppose to know?

Same with the Kobolds. They were not a threat. THEY'RE KOBOLDS. I don't need to equip myself specially to deal with such insignificant enemies. Even if they do hit someone 5 times it's not enough damage to care about. I just found it astromically unlike how lucky they were getting.

I also find it difficult to believe that a kobold landed five critical hits on your -17AC against missiles Jaheira upon casual experimentation. That must have been some lucky kobold.

Everyone needs to understand the nature of a random number generator. You can't test it accurately, being random in nature. However, based upon my own experience it seemed unlikely to have such typically average bad luck and thought I'd ask and see if anyone else had similar experiences. I thought maybe it fudges the numbers a little as you level, so even lowly enemies pose some challenge.

Your title of this thread and attitude seem to suggest you were attacking the game.

This has NOTHING to do with my game, how I've handled whatever encounter, nothing at all. I'm merely speaking about saves, to hit rolls and such. It doesn't matter the source or how it happened, merely that it did. Saying I'm doing an encounter wrong or I need to buy another item is pointless. I am not and have not asked for gameplay assistance.

  You stated specific situations and seemed like you wanted assistance, blaming the game for being geared against the player. I did not know you knew anything about traps or that you knew you had different opportunities. I assumed you reloaded twenty three times against the illithids because you were not aware of different strategies that available to you. You seemed agitated towards the game so I simply offered possible solutions for you to partake.  Here's the statement where I derived your attitude

Not very lucky, I had a particularly hard time with the Illithid lair
this run through despite my main character being more powerful than
previous runs. I had to reload to get through this place about 23 times.
It was downright horrible how quickly they were killing my party
members. I exhausted my immunity items. Things just weren't going my way
at all. Was always failing saves vs. mind control and stun effects.

This has nothing to do that asking other people their opinions on the situations on the situations I mentioned, just the results of the roll of the dice. There is nothing to win, or lose here. No fact to prove or disprove.

 Hopefully this clears it up.

Very well then. Might I ask a question however. After that kobold hit your jaheira five times out of eight...did you ever to reload and test it once more? Perhaps a greater sample size could help your situation. Could you somehow duplicate the situation? I attempted to myself but found myself having different results.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 14 août 2012 - 02:36 .

[BelgarathMTH]

I believe you, Boogie, absolutely, because I have had the same experiences as you, many, many times.

I have also tried to put these experiences out there, asking if anyone else had noticed - the last time was at least a couple or three years ago.

And I remember getting flamed by people who wanted to argue and insist that I was not experiencing what I knew good and well I was experiencing.

I think that the problem in communicating about this issue comes from the fact that the people here are so experienced with the game, that they always make dicerolls irrelevant to the outcome of their runs, and they also tend to have a certain personality type that enjoys arguing about debatable issues in D&D.

I actually like having friendships with people like that, as I have always enjoyed debates about the D&D system of fantasy roleplay gaming.

I have learned over the years to just let this issue go. You and I both know that there is something fishy about those dicerolls, but we are never going to convince anyone else that that is true, and so, the object of the game becomes to transcend dicerolls. You have to learn to just enjoy the game program for what it is, both ingenious and also flawed. The object of the game is to plan your spells and potions and party composition (or solo build) such that dicerolls simply don't matter. With enough skill, which most people who still hang out in these forums have in amazing excess, one doesn't need to care whether the programmers took some AI-building shortcuts with the dicerolls or not.

I would suggest simply disengaging from the thread, because I don't think they will ever stop flaming you for your insight, and they will start flaming me, too, if I push this - which I don't want, because they *are* my online friends.

[The Potty 1]

There is one point I would like to make here. The OP feels that the saving roll calculation deviates from a D&D ideal set in stone by some dead Gy. On the other hand, Perhaps this is developer intent, to make a more pleasing game? Certainly BG feels far from broken, and it's survived better than many games that may well have followed the lore.

[BoogieManFL]

Hey, for all I know dicerolls are influenced by the difficulty slider, or tweaked in the background as you level. I mean, technically, the difficulty settings breaks the rules to adjust difficulty. I mean, is it really utterly inconceivable to think for balance and to maintain some challenge that such a thing could be occurring? That there is clear "cheating" in a system with very specifically laid out rules if you really look at it how it is. That's like playing Chess against someone who can move their Pawns diagonally at will, when you can't, to make it harder.

People are focused on attacking and blathering on about something that is not an issue or the point of the thread. Attacking me or my methods instead of the clear and obvious point of the thread. It's not like anyone came at me with cold hard fact, just their words - that are as empty as mine. I find it a curious insight into the minds of others, how aggressively and insistently some people will try to force things down your throat that they haven't proven to be irrefutable themselves.

Modifié par BoogieManFL, 14 août 2012 - 11:33 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

We might be more susceptible to the idea if you gave more than these four examples. If the game is using loaded dice as you say, then that should not be difficult to show (only requiring a bit of time to collect the data). The numbers need not be as extreme as what you previously posted (62.5% criticals on the side of the enemy is just not believable long term - the mere suggestion that we would not notice something like that in over 10 years is an insult), but it needs to show some kind of consistency.

Freak accidents happen. Two crits one after another is nothing out of the ordinary. Even with three of them piling up nobody would be flabbergasted. Four is almost something to tell your friends about. 5 among 8 is rare but not impossible. But the same rate throughout even one dungeon is not something that is in the realms of the imaginable for any of us. You are implying this rate has been following you throughout your entire game (and ignoring the point whenever I point this out as unbelievable).

[Humanoid_Taifun]

BoogieManFL wrote...
People are focused on attacking and blathering on about something that is not an issue or the point of the thread.

Don't generalize like that. Yes, you have seen negative feedback, but only once it was obvious that your hand was empty. That you had nothing to show us besides the insistance that the dice are disadvantaging you (and 4 separate stories to "prove" this).

It's not like anyone came at me with cold hard fact,

We come at you each with a decade of experience that shows us that this kind of luck is not a rule but something special that happens once in a while and makes the game interesting. That's what the dice are there for.

I find it a curious insight into the minds of others, how aggressively and insistently some people will try to force things down your throat that they haven't proven to be irrefutable themselves.

I hope you understand that for us, you are the guy "try[ing] to force things down [our] throats that [you] haven't proven to be irrefutable [yourself]."

[Mr Fixit]

BoogieManFL wrote...

...but one lone archer Kobold remained. Shooting his little short bow and regular arrows at Jahiera. Repeatedly hitting her when she has a base AC of -12, and bonus vs. missle weapons on her gear, mostly from the fortress shield. Her adjustment vs. Missle weapons is *-17*. So out of pure morbid curiosity I stopped everyone and stood there. Out of 8 shots it hit her 5 times. Really?

For what it's worth, it seems to me that in both IWD and BG enemy archers are far deadlier than can be expected from their (presumed) THACOs. Drow bolters in Dorn's Deep, shadowed goblins in Seldarine's Hand, kobold commandos etc... they all hit my party with extreme accuracy regardless of my AC. I doubt dice are loaded, but something is definitely fishy there. Probably archer THACOs are very, very low (in modern language, their attack bonus is very high) for some reason.

[BoogieManFL]

My posts have been defensive, or wasting time clarfying what I thought was painfully obvious. And it's not like you guys have to reply.  I'm not forcing anything. Again, pointless discussion which has nothing to do with the core of the post.

 My hope for this thread was for people to came and say, No, I've not had such experiences. Or, yes I have. Perhaps naming a few that are most prominent.

Not all this what looks to me to be much like religeous fervurous zealotry. Why so many people take things that do not directly involve or affect them in any way so personally is always a barrier on the internet.

[silenceall]

One thing to keep in mind is that every install is different. Just because the rest of us don't experience the "cheating" doesn't mean it isn't real for the OP or others. For instance, in my game the game absolutely cheats by not allowing me to interrupt certain spell casters (Mad Priest of Cyric, I'm looking at you). [And before you go off topic, yes, I've hit them with extra elemental damage weapons and no, I don't have that installed as a mod] However, I know this is not supposed to happen and is not the norm

I think Mr Fixit is on to something. My thought while reading this thread is that something, whether it be mod or design or whatever, is applying a bonus to specific attacks against you or penalties to your defenses. This THACO issue is probably very difficult to unravel because it happens infrequently and is possible to be occurring "naturally" with random die rolls.

I'd like to focus on the saving throw part of the issue. Have those experiencing the problem (BelgarathMTH, BoogieManFL) noticed that their PCs fail once they get the saves below 1? For those that don't know, there is no critical failure on a saving throw so this might be an easier way to test whether the affected games are truly "cheating" or whether the experiences are more likely to just be a result of "luck" that you could expect with the 1000s of die rolls your PCs have made over the years.