215 réponses à ce sujet

[megawug]

Hackulator wrote...

megawug wrote...
I would not consider that to be canon.  If it didn't happen in the 6 Star Wars movies, then it's just game fanfic.
In any case, I put $20 on Wrex to beat Jar Jar.

Star Wars is very specific that everything in all media is supposed to be Canon. 

I would pay $20 to watch Wrex beat Jar-Jar

LOL!

Personally, I feel *true* Star Wars fans would only consider ANH, ESB and RotJ as canon.  Everything else was just a money grab and to milk the franchise.

If Yoda and the Emperor weren't personally throwing starships around, then it didn't happen.

[ParkBom]

CrutchCricket wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...
The only reason I know of those ranks are because of KotOR and SWTOR, so not really. Also, Banshee Morinth could use her magnet hands and her instahug. Regular Morinth could just Dominate just like she does in ME2 combat. You have pushed it in the biotics' favor by adding Banshees to their side. 

Banshee Morinth would still be dead before she got in range to magnet grab. And you still haven't explained dominate using mass effect principles so it doesn't count.

Really I don't see how this is even a discussion. Force telekinesis alone wins, let alone the crazier **** Sith Lords have done over the millenia like suck an entire planet dry of life essence. Say you played SWTOR? That's what that Sith Emperor did.

No I haven't played SWTOR. I only read small things about it (mainly about Satale Shan because I played KotOR) and I don't think I will ever pay to play it. Anyways, I don't need to explain Dominate because it's in ME2 and it has a wikia post. Look there for info. And I'm not saying an Asari Merc vs. Dark Lord of the Sith because it's not equal. They should be equally powerful.

[SavagelyEpic]

CrutchCricket wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...
The only reason I know of those ranks are because of KotOR and SWTOR, so not really. Also, Banshee Morinth could use her magnet hands and her instahug. Regular Morinth could just Dominate just like she does in ME2 combat. You have pushed it in the biotics' favor by adding Banshees to their side. 

Banshee Morinth would still be dead before she got in range to magnet grab. And you still haven't explained dominate using mass effect principles so it doesn't count.

Really I don't see how this is even a discussion. Force telekinesis alone wins, let alone the crazier **** Sith Lords have done over the millenia like suck an entire planet dry of life essence. Say you played SWTOR? That's what that Sith Emperor did.

Dominate came from ME2- It's therefore canon. Otherwise, I could use the same logic to dismiss sith lords sucking entire planets dry, as it didn't come from the original trilogy.

Besides, in every situation where you're comparing things from a single trilogy to a well established universe of over hundreds (possibly thousands) of combined movies, shows, games, and books, the ginormous universe is going to win simply because it has more to go off of. No other reason.

[Hackulator]

megawug wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

megawug wrote...
I would not consider that to be canon.  If it didn't happen in the 6 Star Wars movies, then it's just game fanfic.
In any case, I put $20 on Wrex to beat Jar Jar.

Star Wars is very specific that everything in all media is supposed to be Canon. 

I would pay $20 to watch Wrex beat Jar-Jar

LOL!

Personally, I feel *true* Star Wars fans would only consider ANH, ESB and RotJ as canon.  Everything else was just a money grab and to milk the franchise.

If Yoda and the Emperor weren't personally throwing starships around, then it didn't happen.

A lot of the stuff before the new movies was quite good. The books, comics, and even some of the games of the extended universe all had solid story.

[Urdnot Trex]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Sith.

Next.

Show me a Sith who can do this.

Done.

[SavagelyEpic]

Urdnot Trex wrote...

Done.

Omg like we've already been over this

<--previous pages

[Ulrich282]

Bioware would have to nerf all of the Jedi and Sith down to Mass Effect 3 standards.
Then the biotics would own them.

[CrutchCricket]

JusticarFlareon wrote...
No I haven't played SWTOR. I only read small things about it (mainly about Satale Shan because I played KotOR) and I don't think I will ever pay to play it. Anyways, I don't need to explain Dominate because it's in ME2 and it has a wikia post. Look there for info. And I'm not saying an Asari Merc vs. Dark Lord of the Sith because it's not equal. They should be equally powerful.

It has no lore info. I believe it can't be explained by lore and thus shouldn't be admissable. In contrast all the crazy Force powers you see in the EU have some explanation. Besides "mass effect fields" is a much more restrained concept than "the Force".

And I can see your point about trying to keep it equal. But I think my point is that you can't make it equal. I don't believe biotics can defend against the simplest Force attacks which any Sith apprentice will be reasonably good at.

[CrutchCricket]

Ulrich282 wrote...

Bioware would have to nerf all of the Jedi and Sith down to Mass Effect 3 standards.
Then the biotics would own them.

Another advantage of the Force then. It's immune to nerf herders:P

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 août 2012 - 12:47 .

[Chamroeun]

How is this related to multiplayer? õ.ó

Although my money is on biotics. Let's see force lightning work on novaguards, yeah?

[SavagelyEpic]

CrutchCricket wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...
No I haven't played SWTOR. I only read small things about it (mainly about Satale Shan because I played KotOR) and I don't think I will ever pay to play it. Anyways, I don't need to explain Dominate because it's in ME2 and it has a wikia post. Look there for info. And I'm not saying an Asari Merc vs. Dark Lord of the Sith because it's not equal. They should be equally powerful.

It has no lore info. I believe it can't be explained by lore and thus shouldn't be admissable. In contrast all the crazy Force powers you see in the EU have some explanation. Besides "mass effect fields" is a much more restrained concept than "the Force".

And I can see your point about trying to keep it equal. But I think my point is that you can't make it equal. I don't believe biotics can defend against the simplest Force attacks which any Sith apprentice will be reasonably good at.

It's not a buffet- You can't just pick and choose which concepts to use and which to not use out of an entirely canon trilogy. Dominate featured heavily in ME2, and is thus canon. Even if you didn't choose Morinth, or take her unique ability, Samara's recruitment and loyalty missions and the entire background behind the Ardat-Yakshi rely heavily on the dominate ability. Otherwise, by the same vein I could say that anything outside the original six movies are just over the top cash grabs with no canonical value.

[Hackulator]

Seeing into the future beats all powers. Also, force users can run so fast you can barely see them and flip all over the place, and considering that a SLOW AS HECK combat roll makes biotics miss, I don't think they could even land a power on most force users.

[CrutchCricket]

SavagelyEpic wrote...
It's not a buffet- You can't just pick and choose which concepts to use and which to not use out of an entirely canon trilogy. Dominate featured heavily in ME2, and is thus canon. Even if you didn't choose Morinth, or take her unique ability, Samara's recruitment and loyalty missions and the entire background behind the Ardat-Yakshi rely heavily on the dominate ability. Otherwise, by the same vein I could say that anything outside the original six movies are just over the top cash grabs with no canonical value.

Did you even read my post? Where did I say I pick and choose what I disqualify? Any power in canon is good to go. My problem with dominate is that it has no explanation in lore. Put quite frankly, it can't be a biotic ability. Unless you explain to me how you can mind control with mass effect fields, we have a problem.

Now I can see it being a specific ardat-yakshi ability, because of all the weird mind stuff asari themselves already do, and since ardat-yakshi take it up to eleven, this would sort of make sense. But Dominate as a general biotic ability makes no sense.

[megawug]

Hackulator wrote...

megawug wrote...

LOL!

Personally, I feel *true* Star Wars fans would only consider ANH, ESB and RotJ as canon.  Everything else was just a money grab and to milk the franchise.

If Yoda and the Emperor weren't personally throwing starships around, then it didn't happen.

A lot of the stuff before the new movies was quite good. The books, comics, and even some of the games of the extended universe all had solid story.

Not disagreeing, but it's just the timeline involved.  IMHO, original SW was part of Lucas's THX1138 period.  All about exploring the limits of creativity and artistic integrity (including American Graffiti, Indiana Jones).

In the 90's, something changed in Lucas, and it became all about "extending" the franchise, and that culminated in the re-edited original SW movies and the new SW movies.  So it's not that all the new stuff is bad, but it no longer follows the essence of the original SW.  And yes, Han shot first.

Modifié par megawug, 10 août 2012 - 01:01 .

[L.ast L.ife]

Last I checked Jedi Mind Tricks aren't affected by lag so...

[SavagelyEpic]

CrutchCricket wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...
It's not a buffet- You can't just pick and choose which concepts to use and which to not use out of an entirely canon trilogy. Dominate featured heavily in ME2, and is thus canon. Even if you didn't choose Morinth, or take her unique ability, Samara's recruitment and loyalty missions and the entire background behind the Ardat-Yakshi rely heavily on the dominate ability. Otherwise, by the same vein I could say that anything outside the original six movies are just over the top cash grabs with no canonical value.

Did you even read my post? Where did I say I pick and choose what I disqualify? Any power in canon is good to go. My problem with dominate is that it has no explanation in lore. Put quite frankly, it can't be a biotic ability. Unless you explain to me how you can mind control with mass effect fields, we have a problem.

Now I can see it being a specific ardat-yakshi ability, because of all the weird mind stuff asari themselves already do, and since ardat-yakshi take it up to eleven, this would sort of make sense. But Dominate as a general biotic ability makes no sense.

Ah, gotcha. Thought you were saying Dominate itself was uncanonical. But I'd still think it was biotic, even if it is (as of now) an asari-specific biotic ability (although depending on your take, Shepard can learn dominate) seeing as biotics work off of eezo and the only reason the Asari have unique abilities is because of eezo-influenced evolution.

As for concrete explanations... Give it up, ME isn't hard scifi. They pretty much threw logical explanation out the window as soon as development on ME2 started. Considering that SW isn't even sci-fi, it's fantasy, there's a great deal more in SW that can't be explained by anything whatsoever than compared to Mass Effect (even just from the original 6). Example: Walking around in normal clothes in space? ....Okay, yep.

There's nothing that really suggests dominate to be a racial ability, though. I always thought the Asari's unique traits came from their biotics, including their weird mind-magic. You could stretch it by saying it works along the same principles of indoctrination though, which could make sense given that Reapers and biotics both run off eezo.

[Hackulator]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

As for concrete explanations... Give it up, ME isn't hard scifi. They pretty much threw logical explanation out the window as soon as development on ME2 started. Considering that SW isn't even sci-fi, it's fantasy, there's a great deal more in SW that can't be explained by anything whatsoever than compared to Mass Effect (even just from the original 6). Example: Walking around in normal clothes in space? ....Okay, yep.

When did that happen?

Modifié par Hackulator, 10 août 2012 - 01:09 .

[CrutchCricket]

SavagelyEpic wrote...
Ah, gotcha. Thought you were saying Dominate itself was uncanonical. But I'd still think it was biotic, even if it is (as of now) an asari-specific biotic ability (although depending on your take, Shepard can learn dominate) seeing as biotics work off of eezo and the only reason the Asari have unique abilities is because of eezo-influenced evolution.

As for concrete explanations... Give it up, ME isn't hard scifi. They pretty much threw logical explanation out the window as soon as development on ME2 started. Considering that SW isn't even sci-fi, it's fantasy, there's a great deal more in SW that can't be explained by anything whatsoever than compared to Mass Effect (even just from the original 6). Example: Walking around in normal clothes in space? ....Okay, yep.

There's nothing that really suggests dominate to be a racial ability, though. I always thought the Asari's unique traits came from their biotics, including their weird mind-magic. You could stretch it by saying it works along the same principles of indoctrination though, which could make sense given that Reapers and biotics both run off eezo.

Well eezo may certainly have played a part, though asari evolution is also implied to be shaped by the protheans (who had their own extrasensory thing going). Regardless of influences, asari do seem to have limited, but very real telepathic abilities that are independent of actual eezo or biotic fields. And dominate seems to fall under the former category, not the latter.

And I'm not looking for "concrete" explanations as in, plausible sounding enough for the real world. But an explanation that is consistent with established rules would be nice.

Edit: Didn't see your bit about indoctrination. Something like that does make it more plausible. If Dominate were explained in a similar way, I don't think I'd have a problem.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 août 2012 - 01:16 .

[SavagelyEpic]

CrutchCricket wrote...
But an explanation that is consistent with established rules would be nice.

Thing is, both franchises find themselves sorely lacking in this department.

[IllusiveManJr]

megawug wrote...
Personally, I feel *true* Star Wars fans would only consider ANH, ESB and RotJ as canon.  Everything else was just a money grab and to milk the franchise.

If Yoda and the Emperor weren't personally throwing starships around, then it didn't happen.

I read a lot of the novels in middle school. I just saw the prequel films for the first time two weeks ago. They were really, really bad. Empire Strikes Back is the only one from the series I'd consider "good."
I don't think I'm a true fan.

[LiarasShield]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

megawug wrote...
Personally, I feel *true* Star Wars fans would only consider ANH, ESB and RotJ as canon.  Everything else was just a money grab and to milk the franchise.

If Yoda and the Emperor weren't personally throwing starships around, then it didn't happen.

I read a lot of the novels in middle school. I just saw the prequel films for the first time two weeks ago. They were really, really bad. Empire Strikes Back is the only one from the series I'd consider "good."
I don't think I'm a true fan.

Actually to me the first force unleashed was cannon because it followed galen marek about how he created the rebel rebellion and how he died a hero to save the rebels and the counselor

Also liked the evil dlc on the take if you killed darth vader and went the darkside and became the emperors new apprentice and enslaving luke MUHAHA o-o

[ParkBom]

CrutchCricket wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...
Ah, gotcha. Thought you were saying Dominate itself was uncanonical. But I'd still think it was biotic, even if it is (as of now) an asari-specific biotic ability (although depending on your take, Shepard can learn dominate) seeing as biotics work off of eezo and the only reason the Asari have unique abilities is because of eezo-influenced evolution.

As for concrete explanations... Give it up, ME isn't hard scifi. They pretty much threw logical explanation out the window as soon as development on ME2 started. Considering that SW isn't even sci-fi, it's fantasy, there's a great deal more in SW that can't be explained by anything whatsoever than compared to Mass Effect (even just from the original 6). Example: Walking around in normal clothes in space? ....Okay, yep.

There's nothing that really suggests dominate to be a racial ability, though. I always thought the Asari's unique traits came from their biotics, including their weird mind-magic. You could stretch it by saying it works along the same principles of indoctrination though, which could make sense given that Reapers and biotics both run off eezo.

Well eezo may certainly have played a part, though asari evolution is also implied to be shaped by the protheans (who had their own extrasensory thing going). Regardless of influences, asari do seem to have limited, but very real telepathic abilities that are independent of actual eezo or biotic fields. And dominate seems to fall under the former category, not the latter.

And I'm not looking for "concrete" explanations as in, plausible sounding enough for the real world. But an explanation that is consistent with established rules would be nice.

Edit: Didn't see your bit about indoctrination. Something like that does make it more plausible. If Dominate were explained in a similar way, I don't think I'd have a problem.

No one said that there couldn't be Ardat-Yakshi Asari.

[Sinapus]

TazMonkey2011 wrote...

Wrex vs Chewie

Drinking contest?

[AresKeith]

LiarasShield wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

megawug wrote...
Personally, I feel *true* Star Wars fans would only consider ANH, ESB and RotJ as canon.  Everything else was just a money grab and to milk the franchise.

If Yoda and the Emperor weren't personally throwing starships around, then it didn't happen.

I read a lot of the novels in middle school. I just saw the prequel films for the first time two weeks ago. They were really, really bad. Empire Strikes Back is the only one from the series I'd consider "good."
I don't think I'm a true fan.

Actually to me the first force unleashed was cannon because it followed galen marek about how he created the rebel rebellion and how he died a hero to save the rebels and the counselor

Also liked the evil dlc on the take if you killed darth vader and went the darkside and became the emperors new apprentice and enslaving luke MUHAHA o-o

the only good thing that came from the prequel movies were Samuel L Jackson, Liam Neeson, and Darth Maul lol

[Impulse and Compulse]

If it's a mix, I'd say Biotics. A skilled asari could put up a barrier while the rest throw out warps and reaves and stuff.

And if you put a Krogan Battlemaster into the mix......