204 réponses à ce sujet

[N7 Whiskey]

Dudeskio wrote...

The fact that the debate here seems to be between the Harrier, Typhoon, and PPR tells us all we need to know. We now have 3 viable, BALANCED ARs. How awesome is that?

About as awesome as a cat**** sandwich.  Wow, 3 whole ARs.  Should be talking about 6 viable, balanced ARs instead of 3.

[Dudeskio]

BuckshotSamurai wrote...

Dudeskio wrote...

The fact that the debate here seems to be between the Harrier, Typhoon, and PPR tells us all we need to know. We now have 3 viable, BALANCED ARs. How awesome is that?

About as awesome as a cat**** sandwich.  Wow, 3 whole ARs.  Should be talking about 6 viable, balanced ARs instead of 3.

Considering how long the community was up in arms over having zero ARs?  I'll take my 3 useable, UR ARs without whining.  Then again, this is the BSN, where tears are the #1 export.

[Dama733]

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

Modifié par Dama733, 10 août 2012 - 07:20 .

[Ares Caesar]

At this point I wouldnt use it on anything other than an N7 Destroyer.

Something is wrong when a gun is only worth using on one class.

[RiflemanUK]

Dama733 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

Not solo you haven't.

[Gockey]

Dama733 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Modifié par Gockey, 10 août 2012 - 07:24 .

[Dama733]

RiflemanUK wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

Not solo you haven't.

If by solo you mean taken it down all by myself then yes, I have.

[Ashen One]

Gockey wrote...

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Balancing the game around Platinum in it's current state would be ridiculous.

[Gockey]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Balancing the game around Platinum in it's current state would be ridiculous.

I think we must be thinking of two different meanings of balanced.  Why do you say it would be ridiculous?

[Ashen One]

Gockey wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Balancing the game around Platinum in it's current state would be ridiculous.

I think we must be thinking of two different meanings of balanced.  Why do you say it would be ridiculous?

The fact that many classes are utterly ineffective on Platinum due to boss unit spam.

"Balance" the weapons and classes all you want, but the GI/Destroyer/Demolisher are always going to be the best classes on Platinum because when the enemies you're fighting are immune to other tactics like CC, classes that specialize in it are always going to be comically underpowered.

For example, when was the last time you saw a Vanguard on Platinum? Do you think a BC death bug fix, and any reasonable buff to Vanguards would help them deal with Atlases, Geth Primes, Brutes, Banshees, and Ravagers as effectively as the Geth Infiltrator, or N7 Destroyer? Because that's mostly what you're going to be fighting on Platinum, even regardless of what enemy faction you choose. Any buff to said vanguards that would allow them to perform as well as the Destroyer/GI against the boss unit spam Platinum has to offer would be gamebreaking and hilariously overpowered on Gold and below.

I wouldn't like it, because it would force me to play Platinum if I wanted a challenge, and boss horde mode is not fun. It's not difficult, it's tedious. Platinum needs a redesign before the game is "balanced" around it, imo.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 10 août 2012 - 07:45 .

[ryoldschool]

Dama733 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

I assumed you were not on platinum, but that is where people are getting the "it took more than one clip".   What difficulty did you do your test on?

[P51Mus7ang]

Yes it is a very good gun, do I use it.....never...well anymore

[mrwizeguy]

Ashen Earth wrote...

The fact that many classes are utterly ineffective on Platinum due to boss unit spam.

"Balance" the weapons and classes all you want, but the GI/Destroyer/Demolisher are always going to be the best classes on Platinum because when the enemies you're fighting are immune to other tactics like CC, classes that specialize in it are always going to be comically underpowered.

For example, when was the last time you saw a Vanguard on Platinum? Do you think a BC death bug fix, and any reasonable buff to Vanguards would help them deal with Atlases, Geth Primes, Brutes, Banshees, and Ravagers as effectively as the Geth Infiltrator, or N7 Destroyer? Because that's mostly what you're going to be fighting on Platinum, even regardless of what enemy faction you choose. Any buff to said vanguards that would allow them to perform as well as the Destroyer/GI against the boss unit spam Platinum has to offer would be gamebreaking and hilariously overpowered on Gold and below.

I wouldn't like it, because it would force me to play Platinum if I wanted a challenge, and boss horde mode is not fun. It's not difficult, it's tedious. Platinum needs a redesign before the game is "balanced" around it, imo.

No ashen , its not platinum that needs redesign.

The game AI reached its maximum long time ago and then the "cheap enemies" issiues started to rise.

It was not expected or designed to reach such high gaming standards.

Modifié par mrwizeguy, 10 août 2012 - 07:53 .

[Gockey]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Balancing the game around Platinum in it's current state would be ridiculous.

I think we must be thinking of two different meanings of balanced.  Why do you say it would be ridiculous?

The fact that many classes are utterly ineffective on Platinum due to boss unit spam.

"Balance" the weapons and classes all you want, but the GI/Destroyer/Demolisher are always going to be the best classes on Platinum because when the enemies you're fighting are immune to other tactics like CC, classes that specialize in it are always going to be comically underpowered.

For example, when was the last time you saw a Vanguard on Platinum? Do you think a BC death bug fix, and any reasonable buff to Vanguards would help them deal with Atlases, Geth Primes, Brutes, Banshees, and Ravagers as effectively as the Geth Infiltrator, or N7 Destroyer? Because that's mostly what you're going to be fighting on Platinum, even regardless of what enemy faction you choose. Any buff to said vanguards that would allow them to perform as well as the Destroyer/GI against the boss unit spam Platinum has to offer would be gamebreaking and hilariously overpowered on Gold and below.

I wouldn't like it, because it would force me to play Platinum if I wanted a challenge, and boss horde mode is not fun. It's not difficult, it's tedious. Platinum needs a redesign before the game is "balanced" around it, imo.

All good points.

That being said, the odds of platinum getting a redesign are 0.  The Xbox limits how many mooks can be spawned in a given wave, and with that constraint in mind they only have a few options on what to do. 

Sure they could spawn a boss type mob (like a reaper or rachni queen), but then your arguments become doubly effective because of the raw DPS nature of the GI and Destroyer.  Alternatively they could revert to Gold wave styles and just massivle buff the enemy (give the rocket trooper more rockets and the centurion more grenades, buff health/shield/armor).

But that feels almost as cheap.  So as for what to do?  Hell I don't know, and I agree it feels slapdash.

That being said, you have to balance around Platinum.  The moment they chose to release it that was no longer an opinion.  All the other difficulties need their balance too, but honestly if you bring in a UR to a Gold/Silver/Bronze game it should feel easier than bringing a Rare/Uncommon/Common counterpart.

Just like balancing a gun for Bronze would break the game on Gold, so would balancing a gun for Platinum break it for Gold.  

Maybe they will come up with a better system, but I rather doubt it.  This MP was never intended to be permanent.

Modifié par Gockey, 10 août 2012 - 07:57 .

[Cole Jones]

Inbuilt AP, Insane fire rate, Something like 200 plus with a destroyer, And that without ammo mods and what not.... I can't wait to get it.

As for it being good...Well my friend seems to think so on Gold and Plat. Insane on Silver and Bronze.

[Zero132132]

Threads like this, I don't understand... I've used it on Platinum to very substantial effect. I'm not sure why, but it seems to kill things with health slower than stuff like Atlases and Banshees for me. Not in the sense that they take longer to kill overall, just in the sense that comparatively, killing an Assault Trooper vs. killing an Atlas shouldn't be as small as it is.

I really want me a Particle Rifle, though...

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

mrwizeguy wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

The fact that many classes are utterly ineffective on Platinum due to boss unit spam.

"Balance" the weapons and classes all you want, but the GI/Destroyer/Demolisher are always going to be the best classes on Platinum because when the enemies you're fighting are immune to other tactics like CC, classes that specialize in it are always going to be comically underpowered.

For example, when was the last time you saw a Vanguard on Platinum? Do you think a BC death bug fix, and any reasonable buff to Vanguards would help them deal with Atlases, Geth Primes, Brutes, Banshees, and Ravagers as effectively as the Geth Infiltrator, or N7 Destroyer? Because that's mostly what you're going to be fighting on Platinum, even regardless of what enemy faction you choose. Any buff to said vanguards that would allow them to perform as well as the Destroyer/GI against the boss unit spam Platinum has to offer would be gamebreaking and hilariously overpowered on Gold and below.

I wouldn't like it, because it would force me to play Platinum if I wanted a challenge, and boss horde mode is not fun. It's not difficult, it's tedious. Platinum needs a redesign before the game is "balanced" around it, imo.

No ashen , its not platinum that needs redesign.

The game AI reached its maximum long time ago and then the "cheap enemies" issiues started to rise.

It was not expected or designed to reach such high gaming standards.

I'm pretty sure if BioWare allowed modding, some people could redesign platinum to be interesting without changing completely the game. Just modifying basic A.I. behavior (like a Nemesis doing more damage, and ignoring shield gate.) could make Platinum a Gold++ difficulty, without cheap stuff like boss rush.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Zero132132 wrote...

Threads like this, I don't understand... I've used it on Platinum to very substantial effect. I'm not sure why, but it seems to kill things with health slower than stuff like Atlases and Banshees for me. Not in the sense that they take longer to kill overall, just in the sense that comparatively, killing an Assault Trooper vs. killing an Atlas shouldn't be as small as it is.

I really want me a Particle Rifle, though...

That's because of the rev up time, and the fact that the Typhoon has a x1.5 multiplier for Armor/Shields/Barriers.

[mrwizeguy]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

mrwizeguy wrote...


No ashen , its not platinum that needs redesign.

The game AI reached its maximum long time ago and then the "cheap enemies" issiues started to rise.

It was not expected or designed to reach such high gaming standards.

I'm pretty sure if BioWare allowed modding, some people could redesign platinum to be interesting without changing completely the game. Just modifying basic A.I. behavior (like a Nemesis doing more damage, and ignoring shield gate.) could make Platinum a Gold++ difficulty, without cheap stuff like boss rush.

No because the player DB is spread across 3 platforms.

Modifié par mrwizeguy, 10 août 2012 - 07:59 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

mrwizeguy wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

mrwizeguy wrote...


No ashen , its not platinum that needs redesign.

The game AI reached its maximum long time ago and then the "cheap enemies" issiues started to rise.

It was not expected or designed to reach such high gaming standards.

I'm pretty sure if BioWare allowed modding, some people could redesign platinum to be interesting without changing completely the game. Just modifying basic A.I. behavior (like a Nemesis doing more damage, and ignoring shield gate.) could make Platinum a Gold++ difficulty, without cheap stuff like boss rush.

No because the player DB is spread across 3 platforms.

Valve authorized modding on all its Source games.

For instance, L4D1 & 2. The PC modding community made new modes (mainly tourney VS modes like fresh/equi/-ogl) and new maps that were later implemented on Xbox.

Point is : you can play mods like Confogl VS on L4D2 on Xbox AFAIK. And the community maps that were the most successful on PC were ported on Xbox later.

And here we're not even talking about maps or whatever, just basic A.I behaviour and spawn changes. Some of these changes might be limited because of hardware limitations on PS3 & Xbox, but it still is doable with a patch.

[Cole Jones]

Gockey wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Actually Gold is. Platinum is just a bigger F Fest. But all are set at legendary Health and damage.

Bronze: Normal Difficulty
Silver: Hardcore
Gold/Plat: Legendary.
Hm... ...Yeah Gold is the Exact same as Bronze...No wonder this place is the laughing stock of the WIki.

[Ashen One]

mrwizeguy wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

The fact that many classes are utterly ineffective on Platinum due to boss unit spam.

"Balance" the weapons and classes all you want, but the GI/Destroyer/Demolisher are always going to be the best classes on Platinum because when the enemies you're fighting are immune to other tactics like CC, classes that specialize in it are always going to be comically underpowered.

For example, when was the last time you saw a Vanguard on Platinum? Do you think a BC death bug fix, and any reasonable buff to Vanguards would help them deal with Atlases, Geth Primes, Brutes, Banshees, and Ravagers as effectively as the Geth Infiltrator, or N7 Destroyer? Because that's mostly what you're going to be fighting on Platinum, even regardless of what enemy faction you choose. Any buff to said vanguards that would allow them to perform as well as the Destroyer/GI against the boss unit spam Platinum has to offer would be gamebreaking and hilariously overpowered on Gold and below.

I wouldn't like it, because it would force me to play Platinum if I wanted a challenge, and boss horde mode is not fun. It's not difficult, it's tedious. Platinum needs a redesign before the game is "balanced" around it, imo.

No ashen , its not platinum that needs redesign.

The game AI reached its maximum long time ago and then the "cheap enemies" issiues started to rise.

I don't think so. There are plenty of things they could do to make the enemies more challenging without spamming boss units.

For example how threatening would Centurions be if their Mattocks were replaced with Cerberus Harriers, or a few of the Cerberus Assault Troopers spawned with Eviscerators instead of Hornets? What if the enemies used specialized ammunition against the players as they did in ME 2 (or even better, weapon mods like the AP mod to shoot through cover as the player can)?

Those are examples of how to make the game more challenging in an interesting way, without shifing the focus to straight DPS like the current Platinum mode does.

[Gockey]

Cole Jones wrote...

Gockey wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Dama733 wrote...

The Typhoon I am finding is a good boss/sub-boss killer, but for the common enemy scrubs it can be a bit annoying given the shield blocks your view when you aim most of the time.

Just a Typhoon 1 can kill a full shield/armour Atlas in one clip if you keep the fire focused on the cockpit or other weakspots.

The spector video was a Typhoon X, Warp IV ammo, Assault Rail III, Barrage V gear on Platinum.  With that setup he could not finish off an atlas with one clip.

With a Warfighter V, rail amp III, Incendiary II ammo on a Destroyer, I have on more than one occasion killed a Gold Atlas with a Typhoon I(with mag upgrade V) in one clip.

Besides why did you assume i meant a Platinum Atlas

Because Platinum is the standard.  Just like any game the hardest difficulty is the most important.  You telling me that you killed it on gold is no different than saying you did on bronze.

If an Ultra-Rare isn't balanced for Platinum, then it isn't balanced at all.  Gold is irrelevant.

Actually Gold is. Platinum is just a bigger F Fest. But all are set at legendary Health and damage.

Bronze: Normal Difficulty
Silver: Hardcore
Gold/Plat: Legendary.
Hm... ...Yeah Gold is the Exact same as Bronze...No wonder this place is the laughing stock of the WIki.

Actually, Platinum is.

You were right that Platinum is just a bigger F-Fest.  The health and shields of all mooks remains the same as gold. 

That being said, with the addition of more Banshees, Primes, and Atlasses and less of the troopers and such, you have to have a higher DPS for Platinum.  

Couple the above with the fact that on Platinum shields/barriers regenerated are (once started) higher and faster than gold and you see the issue.

I agree with your wiki comment =)

[Sulaco_7]

Can someone please elaborate on the Typhoon damage bug? I only vaguely understand it. Is it true that using AP mods on ANY of your weapons makes the Typhoon do 1/2 as much damage?

[Arppis]

Harrier has always been the better weapon... But yeah, it's still a good gun.