915 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Almost everyone who has used the term 'plot armor' on this forum needs to be beaten with a wiffle bat for a few minutes. Because I think I've yet to see it being used correctly.

Plot armor is a character implausibly surviving a situation on nothing more than contrived circumstances or 'luck' in story. That's the definition.

The BSN seems to think this means "Any character who can't be killed in a game where some characters can be killed."

Modifié par David7204, 13 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[RethenX]

Wow this thread is still alive?

Emperor Palpatine: You want this *taps lightsaber* don't you?

[Aggie Punbot]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tali and Liara got equal mandatory screen time if you didn't have the "From Ashes" DLC. Now Liara got no screen time as a squad mate in basic ME2, although she did get LOTSB, which is essentially a loyalty mission for her. With "From Ashes" she has 3 missions in ME3.

That's a total of 3 missions in the entire game, so you hate the character and want to kill her off for that.

Maybe I want to kill off Garrus and replace him with Zaeed. That's a DLC I could go for. Garrus doesn't know how to stay in cover and keeps getting the crap shot out of him. I never take him on missions. His AI sucks.

That doesn't even include the number of times Liara comes up to your room uninvited and you have to interact with her. Using your numbers, the only squad member that is forced to be used as often is Tali and you can only get her in the second half of the game and you never have any forced interaction with her*. Also, there is the option of having her die in ME2 (which you can't do with Liara). Liara is forced upon you multiple times as cutscenes and unavoidable dialogs. I will have to take a few minutes to tally up those, though.

As for Liara getting her very own DLC "loyalty mission" that no one else got....what about the Virmire survivor? They never got a 'loyalty mission' in any of the three games (and you got the chance to kill them twice) and they were also one of the three designated love interests from the first game. Hell, you even got the chance to kill Wrex twice. Wrex!

In fact, the only way that Liara can die is if everyone else does, a luxury no other squadmate maintains. She's also gotten the most amount of supplemental material (two comic series and two (?) model action figures). So yes, I resent the fact that she is being shoved down my throat and my favorite character gets absolutely nothing at all in comparison. Wanting to have the option of killing Liara without killing everyone else is not unreasonable.

* After recruitment, I mean.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 13 août 2012 - 03:32 .

[beaverskenneth]

Oh no no no. Liara is one of the best characters of the past decade. She should absolutely not die.

[Comsky159]

TS2Aggie wrote...

That doesn't even include the number of times Liara comes up to your room uninvited and you have to interact with her. Using your numbers, the only squad member that is forced to be used as often is Tali and you can only get her in the second half of the game and you never have any forced interaction with her*. Also, there is the option of having her die in ME2 (which you can't do with Liara). Liara is forced upon you multiple times as cutscenes and unavoidable dialogs. I will have to take a few minutes to tally up those, though.

As for Liara getting her very own DLC "loyalty mission" that no one else got....what about the Virmire survivor? They never got a 'loyalty mission' in any of the three games (and you got the chance to kill them twice) and they were also one of the three designated love interests from the first game. Hell, you even got the chance to kill Wrex twice. Wrex!

In fact, the only way that Liara can die is if everyone else does, a luxury no other squadmate maintains. She's also gotten the most amount of supplemental material (two comic series and two (?) model action figures). So yes, I resent the fact that she is being shoved down my throat and my favorite character gets absolutely nothing at all in comparison. Wanting to have the option of killing Liara without killing everyone else is not unreasonable.

* After recruitment, I mean.

Very well said.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

TS2Aggie wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tali and Liara got equal mandatory screen time if you didn't have the "From Ashes" DLC. Now Liara got no screen time as a squad mate in basic ME2, although she did get LOTSB, which is essentially a loyalty mission for her. With "From Ashes" she has 3 missions in ME3.

That's a total of 3 missions in the entire game, so you hate the character and want to kill her off for that.

Maybe I want to kill off Garrus and replace him with Zaeed. That's a DLC I could go for. Garrus doesn't know how to stay in cover and keeps getting the crap shot out of him. I never take him on missions. His AI sucks.

That doesn't even include the number of times Liara comes up to your room uninvited and you have to interact with her. Using your numbers, the only squad member that is forced to be used as often is Tali and you can only get her in the second half of the game and you never have any forced interaction with her*. Also, there is the option of having her die in ME2 (which you can't do with Liara). Liara is forced upon you multiple times as cutscenes and unavoidable dialogs. I will have to take a few minutes to tally up those, though.

As for Liara getting her very own DLC "loyalty mission" that no one else got....what about the Virmire survivor? They never got a 'loyalty mission' in any of the three games (and you got the chance to kill them twice) and they were also one of the three designated love interests from the first game. Hell, you even got the chance to kill Wrex twice. Wrex!

In fact, the only way that Liara can die is if everyone else does, a luxury no other squadmate maintains. She's also gotten the most amount of supplemental material (two comic series and two (?) model action figures). So yes, I resent the fact that she is being shoved down my throat and my favorite character gets absolutely nothing at all in comparison. Wanting to have the option of killing Liara without killing everyone else is not unreasonable.

* After recruitment, I mean.

I disagree with you. I should be able to kill your favorite character for no reason as well.

Without Liara, Shepard would have been in the human reaper at the Collector base. She's one of the best developed characters in the series.

[Humakt83]

No, because she can already die and I'm not some murderous freak who wants people dead simply because they are irritating. If I were, I,d be eating chicken soup right now.

[spirosz]

TS2Aggie wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tali and Liara got equal mandatory screen time if you didn't have the "From Ashes" DLC. Now Liara got no screen time as a squad mate in basic ME2, although she did get LOTSB, which is essentially a loyalty mission for her. With "From Ashes" she has 3 missions in ME3.

That's a total of 3 missions in the entire game, so you hate the character and want to kill her off for that.

Maybe I want to kill off Garrus and replace him with Zaeed. That's a DLC I could go for. Garrus doesn't know how to stay in cover and keeps getting the crap shot out of him. I never take him on missions. His AI sucks.

That doesn't even include the number of times Liara comes up to your room uninvited and you have to interact with her. Using your numbers, the only squad member that is forced to be used as often is Tali and you can only get her in the second half of the game and you never have any forced interaction with her*. Also, there is the option of having her die in ME2 (which you can't do with Liara). Liara is forced upon you multiple times as cutscenes and unavoidable dialogs. I will have to take a few minutes to tally up those, though.

As for Liara getting her very own DLC "loyalty mission" that no one else got....what about the Virmire survivor? They never got a 'loyalty mission' in any of the three games (and you got the chance to kill them twice) and they were also one of the three designated love interests from the first game. Hell, you even got the chance to kill Wrex twice. Wrex!

In fact, the only way that Liara can die is if everyone else does, a luxury no other squadmate maintains. She's also gotten the most amount of supplemental material (two comic series and two (?) model action figures). So yes, I resent the fact that she is being shoved down my throat and my favorite character gets absolutely nothing at all in comparison. Wanting to have the option of killing Liara without killing everyone else is not unreasonable.

* After recruitment, I mean.

Thank you. 

[spirosz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...



I disagree with you. I should be able to kill your favorite character for no reason as well.

Without Liara, Shepard would have been in the human reaper at the Collector base. She's one of the best developed characters in the series.

You can kill them ,it's called ME1 and ME2. 

[themikefest]

why not have harbinger fire on the normandy killing everyone
and have all the me2 characters die in the suicide mission

[TheKnightWhoSaysNI]

It's actually quite intriguing that people are whining over having to take Liara on a few missions. No offense to anyone, just my opinion. I just find it odd to be annoyed by a fictional character unless it's Kai Leng, who might I add would have killed you if not for Liara.

Complaining about your squad mates not being able to die is kind of...the last thing anyone should be complaining about in ME3, to be honest.

[Aggie Punbot]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I disagree with you. I should be able to kill your favorite character for no reason as well.

You can; twice. In the actual games.

TheKnightWhoSaysNI wrote...

It's actually quite intriguing that people are whining over having to take Liara on a few missions. No offense to anyone, just my opinion. I just find it odd to be annoyed by a fictional character unless it's Kai Leng, who might I add would have killed you if not for Liara.

Complaining about your squad mates not being able to die is kind of...the last thing anyone should be complaining about in ME3, to be honest.

#1. It's the fact that only one of the squadmates is given the immortality stick throughout the entire series.

#2. It's not the fact that she's forced on you in missions (since nearly every squadmate has that happen, save for Javik). It's the sheer number of times it happens in comparison with the others. When you also factor in the number of times that you have no choice but to interact with Liara in ME3 compared to the other characters, it gets rather aggravating.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 13 août 2012 - 06:10 .

[Generic Screen Name]

beaverskenneth wrote...

Oh no no no. Liara is one of the best characters of the past decade.

Funny... joke?

[sheppard7]

Why pay for a DLC that can be done with the artistic integrity BS endings we already got?

[Conquerthecity]

I wouldn't kill her, but it's ridiculous how much screen time she gets.

[TheKnightWhoSaysNI]

TS2Aggie wrote...
#1. It's the fact that only one of the squadmates is given the immortality stick throughout the entire series.

#2. It's not the fact that she's forced on you in missions (since nearly every squadmate has that happen, save for Javik). It's the sheer number of times it happens in comparison with the others. When you also factor in the number of times that you have no choice but to interact with Liara in ME3 compared to the other characters, it gets rather aggravating.

While I agree with you on point 1, I still don't see what the problem is with that. Or rather, I don't see why you would want to kill off an ally rather than just simply add your ME2 love interest to the Normandy. I understand some people don't like when Liara comforts their Shep instead of their love interest, but that's Bioware's fault, not the fictional character herself. I can't help but feel like people are behaving like sore losers when it comes to this.

So far all the reasons I'm hearing for wanting to kill Liara are personal feelings, none of which would benefit the game at all. Even if Hackett or someone did become the SB, Traynor would still be the one who finds Sanctuary and the Asari government would still be the only ones who knew about the Prothean device. 

[Aggie Punbot]

TheKnightWhoSaysNI wrote...

While I agree with you on point 1, I still don't see what the problem is with that. Or rather, I don't see why you would want to kill off an ally rather than just simply add your ME2 love interest to the Normandy. I understand some people don't like when Liara comforts their Shep instead of their love interest, but that's Bioware's fault, not the fictional character herself. I can't help but feel like people are behaving like sore losers when it comes to this.

So far all the reasons I'm hearing for wanting to kill Liara are personal feelings, none of which would benefit the game at all. Even if Hackett or someone did become the SB, Traynor would still be the one who finds Sanctuary and the Asari government would still be the only ones who knew about the Prothean device. 

That is my issue. I'd probably like Liara a lot if I wasn't forced to see her so often. It's not the character I despise so much as the obvious special treatment Liara gets directly at the expense of the other characters. It doesn't matter that that's not the fault of the character; it's the fault of BioWare and it was a conscious choice on their end. That doesn't change the fact that she was being forced on me at every turn.

Liara was not necessary on Thessia; her presence there could have been encouraged for the unique dialogue but actually bringing her along could have been made optional. They could have simply made a choice to tell Liara no when she begged to go along. They could have allowed Shepard's love interest to offer them comfort at designated areas instead of her. They could have made figuring out how to open the prothean pod on Eden Prime a puzzle instead of just a fetch quest. There were a lot of things they could have done to make her presence less irritating, but they did not because she is the writer's pet.

The series is not called Mass Effect: You Must Love Liara!

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 13 août 2012 - 10:19 .

[ticklefist]

kyles3 wrote...

Only if there's another DLC where your favorite character dies.

How about the base game?

[TheKnightWhoSaysNI]

I can agree with that. Bioware mostly responded to the fans, as most of them enjoy Liara's character. However, that statement can contradict itself in a way. Thane and Miranda were also popular, and look at how they were treated.

This is irrelevant, though. My point is, I don't think killing her would be the best way to go about fixing the situation. Plus, it's a bit pointless to recommend if Bioware favors her so much. I do see where you're coming from though.

[Helios969]

No, she serves an integral part to the ME universe, and no other companion has the intellectual chops to fill the role she does as Shadow Broker.

[Comsky159]

Helios969 wrote...

No, she serves an integral part to the ME universe, and no other companion has the intellectual chops to fill the role she does as Shadow Broker.

But she never does anything! Traynor discovers every single substantive lead in ME3.
All Liara does is ask about your feelings in an unnecessarily breathy voice...a lot. Oh and of course lets not forget that she stares at you while you sleep.

[Seifer006]

Comsky159 wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

That doesn't even include the number of times Liara comes up to your room uninvited and you have to interact with her. Using your numbers, the only squad member that is forced to be used as often is Tali and you can only get her in the second half of the game and you never have any forced interaction with her*. Also, there is the option of having her die in ME2 (which you can't do with Liara). Liara is forced upon you multiple times as cutscenes and unavoidable dialogs. I will have to take a few minutes to tally up those, though.

As for Liara getting her very own DLC "loyalty mission" that no one else got....what about the Virmire survivor? They never got a 'loyalty mission' in any of the three games (and you got the chance to kill them twice) and they were also one of the three designated love interests from the first game. Hell, you even got the chance to kill Wrex twice. Wrex!

In fact, the only way that Liara can die is if everyone else does, a luxury no other squadmate maintains. She's also gotten the most amount of supplemental material (two comic series and two (?) model action figures). So yes, I resent the fact that she is being shoved down my throat and my favorite character gets absolutely nothing at all in comparison. Wanting to have the option of killing Liara without killing everyone else is not unreasonable.

* After recruitment, I mean.

Very well said.

[spirosz]

Helios969 wrote...

No, she serves an integral part to the ME universe, and no other companion has the intellectual chops to fill the role she does as Shadow Broker.

Miranda, Traynor, **** - Wrex is smarter IMO. 

[Barquiel]

Comsky159 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

No, she serves an integral part to the ME universe, and no other companion has the intellectual chops to fill the role she does as Shadow Broker.

But she never does anything! Traynor discovers every single substantive lead in ME3.
All Liara does is ask about your feelings in an unnecessarily breathy voice...a lot. Oh and of course lets not forget that she stares at you while you sleep.

Who discovered the crucible plans again (...and makes sure the project has the supplies it needs)?